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Water-Methanol injection?

I used it on a motorhome in the 70's. It helped the power, especially pulling mountain passes here in Colorado. I even played with mixing some nitrous in. :D
 
I can give you a good source for the water/methanol to be injected.

And, I'll bet you a chocolate chip cookie (with coconut) that you have it on hand.

Windshield washing fluid works quite well. Read the ingredients on the label.

To your question, AEM and Holley both have kits. I amt hinking of using the AEM controller along with the "spare" injector I happen to have installed for my setup. Back burner for me though...

Here is an intersting site:
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/index.html?gclid=CKrEkdW78bECFYPrKgodDmEAiA

All sorts of neat stuff to look at...
 
old_man said:
I used it on a motorhome in the 70's. It helped the power, especially pulling mountain passes here in Colorado. I even played with mixing some nitrous in. :D
Click to expand...

I had an Edelbrock system on a 440 in a Dodge pick-up,It "may " have helped when pulling a trailer, Got tired of it in the freezing weather,,,,did not know about the Washer fluid thing then.....
 
o-gauge-steamer said:
Windshield washing fluid works quite well. Read the ingredients on the label.
Click to expand...

it does, but you need to make sure its the kind that is designed for temperatures below freezing, it's somewhat hard to come by here in socal where it's always warm ;)


diesel guys swear by water/methanol injection, it helps keep the EGTs down letting them build more power without melting everything. I have a buddy that runs it on his supercharged fox body mustang as well.
 
Well, Once upon a time... Just after Dirt was invented and before rocks, I worked on Aircraft with relatively large (3,550cuin) engines on them.

We used water/methanol injection on them. The engines were a two speed internal supercharger equipped two row radial engine that was fuel and water/methanol injected and had three Power Recover Turbines. THe PRTs were the turbine half of a turbocharger that had the ouput shaft connected directly to the crankshaft via a viscous coupling. At maximum BMEP (brake mean effective pressure) each one delivered 150hp to the crank. This engine, the R3350 Compound, developed more power than the 4 row R4360 engine.

Yes, that is an 28 cylinder (4 rows of 7 as all radial engines have an odd rather than an even number of cylinders) engine with 4,360 cubic inches of displacement. Think really big here...

Not bad for 1930s technology which is just how far back water/methanol injection goes. The thing is (as I understand it) the water/methanol will flash into steam in the cylinder vastly increasing the cylinder pressure.

More cylinder pressure = more Hp. As a plus the steam mitigates detonation. EGT cooling is a by product.

On my list of to-do things as one just can not have too much power on tap.

When it comes to an internal combustion engine. Everything has been done already. Fuel injection started in the 1920s for Diesels and by 1952, gasoline engines were factory injected. I believe that Hilborn did a mechanical injection setup for racing in the 1940s but could be off base there.

Point is, this technology is well proven and it works like a charm.

AND, as a side benefit, your combustion chambers will stay clean. No carbon build up at all.

Think Steam Cleaned as a matter of fact...
 
o-gauge-steamer said:
Well, Once upon a time... Just after Dirt was invented and before rocks, I worked on Aircraft with relatively large (3,550cuin) engines on them.

We used water/methanol injection on them. The engines were a two speed internal supercharger equipped two row radial engine that was fuel and water/methanol injected and had three Power Recover Turbines. THe PRTs were the turbine half of a turbocharger that had the ouput shaft connected directly to the crankshaft via a viscous coupling. At maximum BMEP (brake mean effective pressure) each one delivered 150hp to the crank. This engine, the R3350 Compound, developed more power than the 4 row R4360 engine.

Yes, that is an 28 cylinder (4 rows of 7 as all radial engines have an odd rather than an even number of cylinders) engine with 4,360 cubic inches of displacement. Think really big here...

Not bad for 1930s technology which is just how far back water/methanol injection goes. The thing is (as I understand it) the water/methanol will flash into steam in the cylinder vastly increasing the cylinder pressure.

More cylinder pressure = more Hp. As a plus the steam mitigates detonation. EGT cooling is a by product.

On my list of to-do things as one just can not have too much power on tap.

When it comes to an internal combustion engine. Everything has been done already. Fuel injection started in the 1920s for Diesels and by 1952, gasoline engines were factory injected. I believe that Hilborn did a mechanical injection setup for racing in the 1940s but could be off base there.

Point is, this technology is well proven and it works like a charm.

AND, as a side benefit, your combustion chambers will stay clean. No carbon build up at all.

Think Steam Cleaned as a matter of fact...
Click to expand...

Ayuh - the original idea behind water or water/MeOH injection was to increase the operational ceiling of aircraft, before jet engines. Worked well!

Then, like so many other things from Aerospace, hotrodders got hold of it and really went to work.

I'd take water/MeOH for lowering NOx emissions before EGR, any day of the week. If CA would let me, I'd have replaced my EGR with water/MeOH a long time ago.

That's the problem I have with emissions control - no flexiblity. There are usually better ways to solve the problems, so get out of my way and let me use them! Cleaner operation, more reliable systems, easier maintenance, lower TCO - it's amazing what a little ingenuity and know-how can do, if you get out of the way and let it happen...
 
Yup... Hot Rodders.... My Dad was an Original Hot Rodder (Talking pre-WWII here boys...) my Elder Brother and I both are.

"Never too much Power, just not enough Traction"
 
I have run a home built sytem for years with great results on all my turbo vehicles. I have installed some on some customers and friends rides with great results as well. I recommend a system that does not pulsate the motor to keep the pressure in a window ( 100-120 PSI cycle). Find one that regulates the voltage so that you have consistent injection volume per min. Let me know if i need to elaborate.

Dave b
 
Interesting...
Just finished reading the instrucions for the AEM injection kit and they recommend the injector to be upstream from the TB, not downstream as I would have thought. Learn something new every day. Good thing I read it as I was thinking of using my "spare" injector already in the compressor intake manifold.

Guess not.

Not sure I care for the $400+ price tag either...

What do you suppose would happen if I ran my 4 stroke model aircraft engine fuel? It contains 15% of 99.7% pure nitromethane in a castor oil base. Not much in the way of cooling...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
So then, I wonder what the "correct" answer is... In both of our cases, it will be somewhat academic as the working fluid will be passing through a compressor... From the AEM instructions, I get the impression that they are looking more at the Turbo Boys. A googly number of Turbo installs are "blow through" so that may be the reasoning behind the instructions.

I will fire off an email to them to ask about us lowly SC fellows. Inquiring minds being what they are. Mayhap I will just call them.
 
o-gauge-steamer said:
.

What do you suppose would happen if I ran my 4 stroke model aircraft engine fuel? It contains 15% of 99.7% pure nitromethane in a castor oil base. Not much in the way of cooling...
Click to expand...

actually it's mostly methanol.
with 10-15% of nitromethane
and 15-20% of castor or synthetic oil

depending on manufacturer.

If you buy FAI fuel it will have no nitromethane and just be methanol and oil.

it's a helluva lot more expensive than windshield washer fluid though.
 
I can answer the nozzle / vacuum question! If you don't have a solenoid to stop the flow of water/meth engine vacuum will empty your tank QUICKLY. Also, if your tank is HIGHER that your nozzle without a solenoid or check valve your tank will empty itself. Ever heard a vertical flow intercooler filled with water/meth that percolated? Felt like I was driving the world's largest bong...


dave b
 
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