waggy 44 vs. jk 44

Hey guys, so i have some questions. I always thought about putting a 44 up front, most guys seem to run either a fullwidth 44 or a waggy 44. The advantage of the waggy 44 is obviously the width, and some hardcore guys will shorten the fullwidth 44s which would end up with a nice product in the end seeing that it would be a high pinion. The waggy 44 being a low pinion, IIRC is 30% weaker than the HP44, and only 10% stronger than an hp30 in terms of ring gear strength.

Well in my debate, i always looked for reasons to keep my d30. I plan on sticking with my 35s, maybe some 36s or 37s locked next. You can get shafts, trusses, and stiff covers to keep it all nice and strong but the weak point of the ring gear cannot be changed. Then i heard the jk44s are direct bolt in and come with e-lockers and beefy shafts (cant remember what the spline count is, can anyone tell me?). These run an OTA track bar mount too right? Im thinking that would work perfect for some highsteer as well, but it seems they already have a high steer knuckle?

So if they are direct bolt in and the right width, do the brakes, control arms and driveshaft hook right up? It also seems that although they are a High Pinion unit they retain the same tubes, knuckles, balljoints, and hubs as the D30. Would these becme weak points? Or just wear out faster on larger tires?


Thanks guys, just looking for some opinions while I do my research

they're not direct bolt it.
look up a build thread by username squirrel80

Like was said they are not a direct bolt in. You will need new contol arms mounts all the way around. Even with that if I was putting a 44 in the JK version would be first on the list. The ring gear is equal in size to a HD 44, so stronger then most HP and LP 44s. The JK version also has larger U-Joints, comes with a selectalbe locker and is close to the correct width. Making the move to the waggy 44 seems pretty worthless to me.

Ty2003K said:

The ring gear is equal in size to a HD 44, so stronger then most HP and LP 44s.

Click to expand...

Don't all D44's have the same size (8.5") ring gear? I know all the older D44's and D44HD's do.

Also the JK still has the unit bearing hubs right? A Wagoneer D44 would give full floating hubs, servicable bearings and locking hubs. Since you still need to weld some new brackets on with the JK 44 (like with the Waggy 44) all your really missing with the Wagoneer axle is a locker.

And Wagoneer D44's are dirt cheap and readily available.

KaiserMan said:

Also the JK still has the unit bearing hubs right? A Wagoneer D44 would give full floating hubs, servicable bearings and locking hubs. Since you still need to weld some new brackets on with the JK 44 (like with the Waggy 44) all your really missing with the Wagoneer axle is a locker.

Click to expand...

Except for the fact that Wagoneers are low pinion, and weaker than high pinion axles in front applications.

Yes the JK has unit bearings, but you can buy kits to get hubs on them.


emr - you have a lot of information mixed up. The TJ D44s are the ones with D30 tubes and outers. The JK D44s are not bolt in, I think the UCA mounts might be close if I remember correctly, but the LCAs are not. You will have to redo all the bracketry. They are also 32 splines compared with 30 splined TJ shafts. The carriers and gears are different than other D44s. They are also wider than stock XJ axles, and have a 5x5.5 pattern.

I also don't think they came with histeer knuckles.

There was another thread on this a couple days ago, the price has skyrocketted.



I hear they also have a direct bolt in JK axle for 97-06 TJ's, but they are about $5,500.

Begster said:

Except for the fact that Wagoneers are low pinion, and weaker than high pinion axles in front applications.

Yes the JK has unit bearings, but you can buy kits to get hubs on them.

Click to expand...

I didn't realize the JK's had HP D44's. That's cool.

Aren't the full float hub kits priced pretty high?

Seems like a Wagoneer D44 would be better to build if your budget minded.

Yes JK D44s are high pinions.

Full floater kits are pretty expensive.

Wagoneers would be better if you were on a budget. I wouldn't really build one, but then again I guess you can say I'm one of the "Hardcore guys" as the OP said, cause I narrowed my HP44.

I would not build one either. If I wanted to drop coin into an axle for my XJ I'd do up a 9" or a 60.

I would run one (Waggy D44) in stock form though. A lot stronger then a stock D30, especially an early one like the one in my 90 with the 260X joints.

I don't regret dropping the D44 in my 71 for the D60. Might drop my D61 into my 63, after it gets regeared. 3.07's and a 230 OHC 6 would not be pleasent.

KaiserMan said:

Don't all D44's have the same size (8.5") ring gear? I know all the older D44's and D44HD's do.

Also the JK still has the unit bearing hubs right? A Wagoneer D44 would give full floating hubs, servicable bearings and locking hubs. Since you still need to weld some new brackets on with the JK 44 (like with the Waggy 44) all your really missing with the Wagoneer axle is a locker.

And Wagoneer D44's are dirt cheap and readily available.

Click to expand...

No JK d44 and older HD d44's have a larger ring gear. I don't remember the exact difference at the moment. The JK 44 is not really related to others 44's at all, it should have been giving another name.

A waggy is Low pinion (only a tiny upgrade in strength over the HP 30) not to mention the driveshaft angle problems. Also if you pick up the waggy you better immediatly spring for chromo shafts as the stock outers are tiny, and offer no noticable increase in strength over the 30. Once your all said and done with the waggy you have spent a lot of time and money to produce an axle that is slightly and I mean only slightly stronger then your stock hp 30. The JK axle straight from the factory has much larger shafts, larger U-Joints (a big upgrade in my mind) and 4.10 gears which will work for a lot of people.

As far as the unit bearings go, I dont see it as a problem. They last a long time and make axle swapping on the trail a very quick and painless job. I agree the waggy path is probably cheaper but personally I wouldn't even bother.

Ty2003K said:

No JK d44 and older HD d44's have a larger ring gear. I don't remember the exact difference at the moment. The JK 44 is not really related to others 44's at all, it should have been giving another name.

Click to expand...

It was going to be the D47, but Jeep insisted on D44 for marketing reasons.

FWIW...

The front JK 44 now goes for around $3,000. It was a bargin about a year ago. Now you might be better off building your own.

All D44HD's I've ever seen (or owned) have 8.5" ring gears. Same as all other D44's. Closed and open knuckle versions. Where are you getting your info on that?


From what I have read the JK's have 8.89" ring gear, with a larger pinion.
I've also heard they share the JK D30 knuckles. Not sure if that is true. Also heard that the e-lockers don't hold up so well. Again, not sure if it's true. Something to look into though.

What size joints are the new JK's running? And isn't the thinnest point of both teh TJ and Jk axles the same? Meaning they have teh same weak spots?

I see no reason to "immediatly" spring for new shafts. Lots of people run stock shafts with no problems, in heavier vehicles then XJ's.

For the grand or so JK 44's are going for you could buy and Waggy D44, gear it and toss in a locker of choice. Maybe not selectable, but since you have locking hubs it's not a very big deal. Plus right now there are way more aftermarket parts for regular D44's.

Seems like the only major benifit of the Rubi JK D44 is the HP, and the locker if they are any good. Bigger u-joints are good, but to they make better then stock strength ones yet?

Still, for the price you can bring a Waggy D44 up to the same specs (or buy one allready built) minus HP, which doens't work for everyone anyway.

Bryson said:

FWIW...

The front JK 44 now goes for around $3,000. It was a bargin about a year ago. Now you might be better off building your own.

Click to expand...

$3000! Okay yeah. You CAN build a better axle then a JK D44 for that money, unless you have a shop do all your work that is.
I don't have that much into the 4.10 geared 60 in my J2000. Including the all new brakes, shocks, mounts and new perches (farmed the welding out since one sits on the cast diff). I could have locked it up and run better shafts and other goodies for $3000.

Im comparing the JK 44 gear set to a true HD d44 gearset most likely found in the rear of a vehicle, such as the grand cherokee d44, not comparing 1/2 vs 3/4 ton 44's which do in fact have the same internal gear sets. Sorry for that I should have specified.

I believe the jk 44 u joint is similar to the 1330 series but would like verification on that, but yes CTM already has their version ready for the axle.

As far as the comparing the TJ axle vs the JK, there is also a big difference. A TJ d30 axle is only 27 spline while the TJ rubicon axle (rubicon 44) has 30 splines. The 30 spline version is thicker throughout the shaft. The JK unit uses 32 splines again thicker throughout the axle. You could say they still have the same weak spots as both will likely break at the splines but 32 splines are considerably stronger then 27.

Yes people run stock shafts in heavier vehicles then the XJ with no problem but that wasn't my point. My point was that a stock wagoneer outer has little to no strength upgrade over the 30, that is until aftermarket shafts come into play.

With all that being said 3,000 is very steep and I can't say I would go that route either as you could build something better.

Ty2003K said:

Like was said they are not a direct bolt in. You will need new contol arms mounts all the way around. Even with that if I was putting a 44 in the JK version would be first on the list. The ring gear is equal in size to a HD 44, so stronger then most HP and LP 44s. The JK version also has larger U-Joints, comes with a selectalbe locker and is close to the correct width. Making the move to the waggy 44 seems pretty worthless to me.

Click to expand...

What about the TJ44, is that one bolt in? I swear one of them is. And im pretty sure the JK44s are high steer, and OTA track bar bracketee, but ill check. And yes, an LP44 does seem useless, if you're going to spend the time to build it I would try to get something with a little more maximum strength increase than 10%.

Begster said:

Except for the fact that Wagoneers are low pinion, and weaker than high pinion axles in front applications.

Yes the JK has unit bearings, but you can buy kits to get hubs on them.


emr - you have a lot of information mixed up. The TJ D44s are the ones with D30 tubes and outers. The JK D44s are not bolt in, I think the UCA mounts might be close if I remember correctly, but the LCAs are not. You will have to redo all the bracketry. They are also 32 splines compared with 30 splined TJ shafts. The carriers and gears are different than other D44s. They are also wider than stock XJ axles, and have a 5x5.5 pattern.

I also don't think they came with histeer knuckles.

There was another thread on this a couple days ago, the price has skyrocketted.



I hear they also have a direct bolt in JK axle for 97-06 TJ's, but they are about $5,500.

Click to expand...

I could have sworn i saw them for $1400 a few weeks ago. Might look for a junkyard one?

KaiserMan said:

All D44HD's I've ever seen (or owned) have 8.5" ring gears. Same as all other D44's. Closed and open knuckle versions. Where are you getting your info on that?


From what I have read the JK's have 8.89" ring gear, with a larger pinion.
I've also heard they share the JK D30 knuckles. Not sure if that is true. Also heard that the e-lockers don't hold up so well. Again, not sure if it's true. Something to look into though.

What size joints are the new JK's running? And isn't the thinnest point of both teh TJ and Jk axles the same? Meaning they have teh same weak spots?

I see no reason to "immediatly" spring for new shafts. Lots of people run stock shafts with no problems, in heavier vehicles then XJ's.

For the grand or so JK 44's are going for you could buy and Waggy D44, gear it and toss in a locker of choice. Maybe not selectable, but since you have locking hubs it's not a very big deal. Plus right now there are way more aftermarket parts for regular D44's.

Seems like the only major benifit of the Rubi JK D44 is the HP, and the locker if they are any good. Bigger u-joints are good, but to they make better then stock strength ones yet?

Still, for the price you can bring a Waggy D44 up to the same specs (or buy one allready built) minus HP, which doens't work for everyone anyway.

Click to expand...

$3,000 for any axle swap seems to be just rediculous. My rear 8.8 cost me under $500 to build, and it had the gears i wanted and even has a Riddler cover.

emr1101 said:

What about the TJ44, is that one bolt in? I swear one of them is. And im pretty sure the JK44s are high steer, and OTA track bar bracketee, but ill check. And yes, an LP44 does seem useless, if you're going to spend the time to build it I would try to get something with a little more maximum strength increase than 10%.

Click to expand...

Yes, the TJ D44s are bolt in. They are the ones with D44 centers, and D30 tubes and outers. Just remember it this way, the TJ's and XJ's were made the same years, so the front axles will switch, the JKs are completely different, therefore will not work.

The JKs are crossover steering, like the WJ's. It allows the mounting of the draglink higher than the tie rod, but they are not flat top knuckles, and have no points of attachment to add high steer knuckles. Thats not high steer. And that trackbar bracket doesn't look like its over the axle. Even if it was, I doubt it would be in the right place for when it gets put under an XJ.

emr1101 said:

I could have sworn i saw them for $1400 a few weeks ago. Might look for a junkyard one?

Click to expand...

Yes, you may have, but:
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=983331
Good luck finding them in a junkyard. I know wranglers don't exist in junkyards around here, let alone the JK Rubis.

emr1101 said:

$3,000 for any axle swap seems to be just rediculous. My rear 8.8 cost me under $500 to build, and it had the gears i wanted and even has a Riddler cover.

Click to expand...

Not its not, I guess you haven't done a lot of research on front axle swaps.
Rear axle swaps are low money and really easy.

Front axles need new brackets, then you factor in the costs of parts such as brakes, ball joint, axles, u-joints, gears, lockers, steering, trackbar, it adds up.
Just for parts, as I did all the work myself, my front HP44 swap cost that much.

I'll have to keep an eye out at my local yard. They will sell ANY front or rear diff for $150. Even the Stupid Duty D60's. If i could score a pair of JK D44's for $300.....

Any junkyard w/ rubicons in their yard, isnt a junkyard that will be staying in buisness long....

something tells me you should be talking to tow truck drivers instead...

I saw a totald JK Rubi the other day and it was aready spoken for.. i was like I just got here on the truck and he said some one spotted it on the road and called them... I was wow.. so yea you guys are right.. they are rareley in junkyards.

derrickdrew17 said:

I saw a totald JK Rubi the other day and it was aready spoken for.. i was like I just got here on the truck and he said some one spotted it on the road and called them... I was wow.. so yea you guys are right.. they are rareley in junkyards.

Click to expand...

That's about how I got the D60 in my 71.

I saw the a local yards ramp truck loaded with a Dodge W200 snow fighter drive past me while I was filling up. Follwed him straight to the yard and bought the D60's on the spot for $300.