ax15/231 in 87 comanche

so i picked up an ax15/231 that was behind a HO 4.0 but not sure of which year it is...
the tranny is going under my 87 comanche. 4.0. to replace the puegeot under it right now
the ax15 has an internal slave so im geussing that pre 94? but im not sure
ive read a bunch of puegeot to ax15 swaps but none ever really said anything about driveshaft length being the same or different and it seems like everyone modded their pilot bearing.

to mate this thing behind my 4.0 what all do i need?

i know i need a new pilot bushing but how do i know what to ask for when i go to autozone or wherever?

and the crossmember will need to be moved back right?

what about rear driveshaft length?


thanks
Shomsky

Did you get the tranny mount with the ax-15? You will need that. When I did mine I think I ordered a Pilot bearing for a 90 cherokee as some of them had a ax-15 from the factory. Case linkage is different with both as well So you will need the linkage from an ax-15 and it will have to be modified a bit, well on mine at least it did

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=70388

This should answer most of your questions, so read it over and see if it does. If you still have anything you're wondering about afterwards, ask away!

This will also explain the pilot bushing you're likely to need (1990 AX-15 has the same size pilot as the Peugeot, later has a larger pilot,) driveshaft swaps, mount issues, crossmember issues, ... It should be all in there.

ok so i ordered a pilot bearing for a 74 cj with the 304

as for the clutch some were saying they are all the same... so should i get a 90 something clutch (what the ax15 came out of) or an 87 clutch(my motor). and what kind of clutch should i get? just an autozone clutch or something like a centerforce? its my DD/rock crawler. sorry... never really messed with any kind of trans before or clutches so im kinda lost here...

thanks
-Shomsky

Shomsky462 said:

ok so i ordered a pilot bearing for a 74 cj with the 304

as for the clutch some were saying they are all the same... so should i get a 90 something clutch (what the ax15 came out of) or an 87 clutch(my motor). and what kind of clutch should i get? just an autozone clutch or something like a centerforce? its my DD/rock crawler. sorry... never really messed with any kind of trans before or clutches so im kinda lost here...

thanks
-Shomsky

Click to expand...

No worries - if you don't ask, you won't learn! (Although I do think I covered this in the swap thread...)

The friction for the BA-10 and the AX-15 is the same, so no trouble there. However, the connection for the internal slaves is different (the BA-10 uses a 1/4" SAE flare fitting, while the AX-15 uses some oddball quick-connect,) so continue to get the BA-10 clutch kit. It will fit.

If you're worried about the durability of the old master cylinder - it is 21 years old! - then go ahead and replace it. You should be able to fit either version on the firewall, so add up the costs for both the clutch kit (which usually has the slave in it for internal jobs) and the master cylinder, and see which one saves you a few bucks.

If you were going to an "external" AX-15 (1995-up,) you'd have to swap the hydraulics out as well - but with the internal, you've got some leeway.

NB: The "internal" AX-15 can be converted to an "external" unit - you'll need the bellhousing, the clutch fork, and the front bearing retainer to do so. Just a "future reference" note, in case you run across a trashed external AX-15. The NV3550 bellhousing and clutch fork will also work, but I'm not sure about the front bearing retainer. Yet.

sweet thanks. that clears up a lot of stuff. i just havent really been around any trannys or clutches ever so i really didnt even know what an internal and external meant but i got the basic idea now so thanks for the help!

-Shomsky

Shomsky462 said:

sweet thanks. that clears up a lot of stuff. i just havent really been around any trannys or clutches ever so i really didnt even know what an internal and external meant but i got the basic idea now so thanks for the help!

-Shomsky

Click to expand...

Why didn't you say so? Have you seen how a clutch goes together yet? It's essentially a sandwich - there's the flywheel (fastened to the crankshaft,) the friction disc, and then there's a cover (it's a spring-loaded iron plate that squeezes on the friction plate, and the cover assembly is screwed to the flywheel.)

When you step on the clutch, you have either a slave cylinder acting upon a lever ("external slave") or a combined piston/bearing arrangement ("internal slave".) In the case of the external slave, the lever then presses against a bearing ("throwout bearing") that then bears against a series of fingers on the clutch cover, which releases spring pressure. This allows the clutch friction disc to spin freely, since there is now space between the cover plate and the flywheel.

On an "internal slave cylinder" (also known as a "concentric bearing" or "what the f*** were they thinking there?!?") the slave cylinder and the throwout bearing are a single unit, and you'll see hard hydraulic lines going inside the bellhousing to the slave cylinder/bearing assembly. Since the throwout bearing is typically replaced as part of a clutch service, the "internal slave" clutch kits also happen to come with a slave cylinder. A clutch kit for an "external slave" would not - they also tend to be somewhat less expensive. (And, if you lose the slave cylinder, you don't have to drop the whole damned transmission to get to the thing. This is a large part of why I don't like the internal slave cylinder arrangement.) There are a few more points of maintenance when changing an "external" slave cylinder clutch, but I think they're well worth the trouble (it's not that veridam much trouble, and having the hydraulic seals well away from the clutch friction and resulting dust - which accelerates wear - is a bonus. So is having it away from the heat of the clutch engaging, if you're shifting a lot.)

The "internal" slave cylinder borders on acceptable when used in passenger cars on the road, but it's a patently stupid idea on a truck, especially one with the potential to be used off-road when you have to stir the gears rather frequently.

Does this help the idea make more sense, or have I only succeeded in muddying the waters further? If you like, I think I have an old Peugeot internal slave lying about, and I can take a picture of it and email it to you upon request.

wow awesome
that definitely helped me understand the whole clutch proccess a lot better.

thanks for takin the time to explain it to me. and when i go to put in my new trans and get some hands on experience with it im sure ill understand it a lot better.

and ill be able to see the peugeot slave cylinder and the ax15 first hand here shortly but i appreciate the offer for the pics.

well this outta be a fun project. learning more and more every time

thanks again 5-90
-Shomsky

Shomsky462 said:

wow awesome
that definitely helped me understand the whole clutch proccess a lot better.

thanks for takin the time to explain it to me. and when i go to put in my new trans and get some hands on experience with it im sure ill understand it a lot better.

and ill be able to see the peugeot slave cylinder and the ax15 first hand here shortly but i appreciate the offer for the pics.

well this outta be a fun project. learning more and more every time

thanks again 5-90
-Shomsky

Click to expand...

If you're willing and able to swap a transmission out for a like unit, this job isn't much harder (did it on my 88XJ - I'll be doing it again tho, since I managed to score an "external" AX-15. I really don't like the "internal" idea. It was dumb when Mazda did it, it wasn't any smarter when Ford did it, and the story has not improved with telling...)

The single biggest issue I can think of would be that you'll need to move the crossmember back to the rearward set of holes to accommodate the AX-15 mount location. Before you get into the job, take a 3/8"-16 screw and check the threads in those holes - the threaded inserts may have rusted out. This can be corrected by simply cutting an access port in the side of the framerail (not one large port - two small ones) big enough to pass a fender washer, a nut, and a wrench. Use the nut and washer to retain the bolt, instead of screwing it into the threaded insert (which is shot.) The washer will provide a bearing surface against the inside of the framerail. I think the ports I cut were about 2" long and 1-1/4" or so high - quick and easy cuts with an angle grinder.

After cutting, prime and paint the cut edges - primer is porous, and you can get rust starting through primer. It just takes longer.

Beyond that, it's really a simple job.

edit - And next time you don't understand something, don't be afraid to ask! I'm happy to be of help (most of us are) but I'm psychotic, not psychic...