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Goatman
October 29th, 2008, 22:18
We'd like to post up some tech about getting our rigs ready to race in King of the Hammers. If anyone doesn't know what King of the Hammers is, it's a combination desert race and rock race, a formatt that has never been done before. We were very happy to be included in the first ever race of this type, and even happier to finish in the top 10. Last year (actually Feb '08) was about 40 miles of desert and 10 miles of hard rock trails. We were fortunate enough to come in 7th out of 43, even after breaking a driveline and air locker lines and being down for about an hour.

I'll start with some things we did to prep the car for last years race. We added safety items including window nets and door bars, and a battery/engine kill switch, and a wide angle rear view mirror. Suspension wise we added 2" Fox air bumps to the front, with 3" of bump travel, and worked on the coilovers some to fine tune the secondary rate transition point. We also added 1/2" steel rings from Staun to the inside bead of the steel beadlocks, to help prevent bending the rim on the inside, and got a set of 40" Maxxis Creepy Crawler stickies. I beefed up the motor mounts by expanding the mounts to include 5 bolts on the block instead of just the 3 for the stock mounts. Rigwerks supplied a very beefy crossmember/belly pan. We prepped the car by beefing up some of the front suspension mounts, beefing up and double shearing the pitman arm, and going through the rig and tightening every bolt to proper torque using a torque wrench, and marked all of the suspension and steering bolts so we could see if they loosened. Also worked on all the vent lines to insure we'd have no leaks in case we rolled.

The one thing we didn't do was reroute and protect the air locker lines from heat. Running flat out generated much more heat than we were used to and melted sections of the lines, causing us to loose our lockers, which then led to breaking the CV in the rear driveshaft. Our crew brought us the spare shaft, and fixed the air lines, but we lost an hour.

Here's some pics of the rig ready for the last race.

http://fototime.com/F1851378ED27CFF/standard.jpg

http://fototime.com/E4220D312FC5901/standard.jpg

http://fototime.com/983E9F47CE42BB9/standard.jpg

C85D4x4
October 29th, 2008, 22:23
:yelclap:

Goatman
October 29th, 2008, 22:53
I wasn't happy with the ride and handling of the rear suspension after the last race. With the light rear weight, I already had the lowest rate springs available, and it was still too stiff. I also would end up needing air bumps, and I didn't see how it could be done with the configuration of the rear of the buggy. Air shocks seemed to do well last year, the 1st and 2nd place rigs had them, so I decided to try a new brand and type of air shock from ORI in the rear.

http://www.oristruts.com/ (http://www.oristruts.com/page6.html)

My buggy was built for crawling, not for speed, and I built it with really high roll centers. That works exceptionally well for crawling, it's extremely stable, but the rear didn't work real well at speed because the panhard mount was too high on the axle. I had already lowered it a couple inches for the last race, but we lowered it another 3 inches. Because the panhard bar had too much of an up angle as the suspension compressed, it caused a slight twisting action that created lift on that side so the passenger side wouldn't bottom all the way out no matter how hard we hit.

Lowering the panhard mount worked great, now it bottoms out evenly. And the ORI's made a huge difference, we can make it as soft as we want, and control the stability (which is already very good). The rig rides and handles at speed MUCH better than it did before.

Here's a pic with the new ORI Struts.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w52/XJEEPER1/NAXJA%2025%20Anniv%2010-08/Area%20BFE/100e4620.jpg

Goatman
October 29th, 2008, 23:09
In the last race, our top speed was 3200-3300 rpm, which comes out to just over 80 mph. That's as fast as it would go. We need more speed, more acceleration, and more throttle response. I'd really like to build a stroker, but can't afford it yet, and I wanted better rpm at the top end, so decided to do a gear change. The rig has 4.56 gears, which isn't the best with 40's and low air pressure. We're going to run more air next race, which will help a little, and we're changing to 5.13 gears. That will move us up to 3700-3800 rpm at around 80 mph, which is a much better power band. It should give us much better throttle response and more speed.

Since the HP60's are known to break gears in the rear when used hard, I sent the new gears to Performance Cryogenics to get them cryo treated, which makes them tougher. We installed the rear gears on Sat, and fronts go in next Sat.

ECKSJAY
October 29th, 2008, 23:14
Very cool stuff. :D:D:D

yossarian19
October 29th, 2008, 23:20
sweet merciful jesus... You have the gall to put Cherokee XJ on the side of that beast?
In all seriousness though - that is a gorgeous piece of fabrication. Best of luck in all your prep & racing! Keep us updated!

CanMan
October 29th, 2008, 23:52
Very nice Richard!

Ba-Riedo
October 30th, 2008, 00:34
Looks good. :thumbup:

-Alex

Phil
October 30th, 2008, 07:36
Richard, it seems like many guys prefer a triangulated four-link for their crawlers. After changing the panhard mount on the rear axle, is there anything else you would change?

Starting from a pile of tube again, would you still do the three link with panhard?

Paul S
October 30th, 2008, 12:41
Richard, it seems like many guys prefer a triangulated four-link for their crawlers. After changing the panhard mount on the rear axle, is there anything else you would change?

Starting from a pile of tube again, would you still do the three link with panhard?

From the passenger seat I see no downside to the rear 3 link. With the high rollcenter it's 'suppose' to be more stable on the trail & harsher on the fast, but with the new shocks Richard's feels great on the fast. There is no hint of a trackbar or 3 link when going fast, at least not that I noticed.

Paul

Muddy Beast
October 30th, 2008, 17:12
Sick...good job on that thing!

~Scott

markw
October 30th, 2008, 19:48
sweet merciful jesus... You have the gall to put Cherokee XJ on the side of that beast?
In all seriousness though - that is a gorgeous piece of fabrication. Best of luck in all your prep & racing! Keep us updated!

I'm sure the VIN is still on the firewall, so technically as Cracker's plate on his buggy says, "STILLNXJ", besides, I'm going to win the buggy ride at goat fest and see how strong it really is. :)

Goatman
October 30th, 2008, 20:28
Richard, it seems like many guys prefer a triangulated four-link for their crawlers. After changing the panhard mount on the rear axle, is there anything else you would change?

Starting from a pile of tube again, would you still do the three link with panhard?

I love 3 links, I did one in the front of the XJ when no one had done them (wow! that was more than 8 years ago), comp rigs didn't even have them then, and I've always been real happy with it. Now, there's 3 links all over the place in all kinds of rigs.

It's hard to say which is prefered, 4 links or 3 links, there's a ton of both on rock crawl buggies. Some have done 4 links because they didn't understand 3 links, or thought there was something inherently bad about a panhard bar, which there isn't. All moon buggies are 3 link, and there's plenty of moon buggy style rigs doing well in XRRA rock racing. The 1st, 2nd, and 4th place rigs in the last KOH race had 3 links front and rear. It was thought in advance by some outspoken internet folks that air shocks and 3 links wouldn't work when speed and distance where involved, but that thought was proven drastically wrong, as those rigs with 3 links also had air shocks.

Other than the panhard mount location on the axle, there's nothing I'd do different about the rear 3 link. We know that they excel in rock crawling, with great stability and simplicity. A 3 link needs to be configured slightly different for speed than for what can work really well in rocks. However, since I've lowered my panhard mount, it hasn't seemed to loose anything in the rocks. To know that for sure I'd have to run the same lines on the same obstacles for a better comparison. One reason I went with the ORI's was to compensate for any stability that I lost by lowereing the panhard, but I think in reality it hasn't made enough difference to notice.

A 4 link can be configured to work well for both crawling and speed. If I was to start over, with more speed in mind, I might consider a 4 link if I really wanted to increase the rear travel, which would also mean a big increase in front travel. It's yet to be seen if a buggy with travel around 20" can be stable in the rocks, and be a real good crawler and climber. We'll have to see as more longer travel rigs are built for KOH. We also haven't seen a 20+" travel 3 link, to see what kind of handling and stability it has. Lots to learn yet.

We're much faster than were before, in the last race, and we can be faster still, so right now I'm pretty happy with the 3 links.

markw
October 30th, 2008, 20:31
You get too much faster, you're going to win the darn thing and make everyone look bad. :)

Goatman
October 30th, 2008, 20:37
You get too much faster, you're going to win the darn thing and make everyone look bad. :)

Don't have a stroker yet. :D





Keep buying those T-shirts. :)

Los Lobos
October 30th, 2008, 20:52
Richard your opinions and advice are some of the best i've seen in this forum.

Thanks for sharing!

Oh and keep it coming.

Starboard M
October 30th, 2008, 21:13
Richard, do you have full hydro, or hydro assist? Did you have any cooling problems with them on the last race?

I remember that being a big problem for several of the other competitors.

Goatman
October 30th, 2008, 23:54
Richard, do you have full hydro, or hydro assist? Did you have any cooling problems with them on the last race?

I remember that being a big problem for several of the other competitors.

I have hydro assist. I've wondered about going full hydro, but I have so much money into the assist and it works so well, I'm going to stick with it. The steering input and control is very good, quick, and absolutely stable at speed. I can turn with one hand in any situation, so it has plenty of power. I didn't have any heat issues during the race, or at any other time.

My system consists of all Tommy Lee (Lee Mfg) parts except the ram and pump pulley, which are PSC. A TC pump that Lee rebuilt and modified, Lee rebuilt steering box, Lee remote reservoir and inline filter, PSC 4.5" pump pulley, and PSC 8" x 1.75" ram. It has two of the smallest size Hayden trans coolers.

The steering is also sharp, the arm distance from the ball joint centers is only 6". This also makes the steering fairly quick, and sharp enough that I had to grind to clearance the inside of the axle yokes.

Paul S
October 31st, 2008, 15:40
Richard, Dave & I have been doing a lot of KOH related shock tuning & testing this past year. It's been a lot of fun & real rewarding, so I thought it might be interesting to share, especially our unexpected & unanimous conclusion.

Our primarily goal has been to improve the fast stuff. We kept an open mind, looking at how our different cars worked in the desert & seeing how we could improve them.
Our biggest struggle has been how to improve the fast stuff without sacrificing the slow stuff.

We (Richard) pulled the fastest time of anyone on arguably the hardest trail section of KOH 08, we’d definitely like to repeat this in 09, so giving-up trail performance isn’t an option.
Our speed in the desert was ‘competitive’. With a lot of tuning we could get a little faster, but primarily we could get a lot more comfortable & thus conserve energy for the technical sections (I still don’t know how Richard had the concentration to run the whole race with only one diff grabber related back-up).

As you know, Richard had coilovers f/r + air bumps up front. Richard swapped springs & revalved several times, right down to total disassembly on the lakebed so we could experiment with different valving through the weekend.
We got them working a lot better than they were for KOH 08, but we knew we could do better & we couldn’t see getting there with coilovers. The problem that we kept bumping into was getting them stiff enough to handle the baja type stuff & soft enough that we could scoot up the trails & not thrash us in the in between stuff.
On to air shocks… as their progressive way does exactly what we need.
With this thought, Richard picked-up a pair of ORI’s for the rear. Right out of the box these made a huge improvement, it had to be twice as smooth as before. By the Rockin jambo he’ll have a set of ORI’s for the front & I expect that with just a little tuning Richard’s junk will be smokin. I’m a happy co-pilot.

Dave’s junk has been for a couple of years the fastest in the desert (in our group), this with 2.5” airs up front, coilovers rear + air bumps f/r. It’s real smooth & I doubt that we’re going to get any faster with our stock 6’s. However, Dave’s front has always worked better than the rear, so he’s spent his time trying to match the rear to the front. Last month he was finally ready to ditch the rear coilovers in favor of 2.5” airs, but at the last minute he lined up a deal on some new Kings (wait till you see these things).
He’s already cut off the f/r air bumps & I don’t think he’s going to miss ‘um.

I’ve been running 2.5” airs p front, which have worked great with very little tuning (exact same as Dave’s). As good as they were, last month we decided to make a major change to see if we could make them better suited to a possible 100 mile KOH (at the time we thought Dave would still have his Fox’s for the race). Somewhat to our surprise, it worked. With the change they became about 10% smoother & they no longer change height after long desert runs. Before the change they never faded, but they did increase in height after a long, fast desert run.
I was running 2.0’s in back & tuning them after every run. At times it was fairly ok, at other times it was terrible. I just couldn’t get the 2.0’s to do it all. In September I replaced them with 2.5’s & after just one weekend of tuning they were working great. I then revalved them at home before taking them out for the 2nd time, this time out all of the whoops on our little test track disappeared completely.

So, that takes you from where we were to where we are & where we’re going.

It’s going to be a lot of fun seeing how the new ORI’s & Kings do. I think the bar is about to be raised yet again, we might need those strokers after all:D

Can’t wait for KOH 09…

Paul

Kittrell
November 1st, 2008, 21:43
Congratulations on the King Sponsorship, looking forward to '09.............:thumbup:

David Taylor
November 3rd, 2008, 15:35
Here is a picture of the new shocks we are going to run on my car for the race.
http://davidgtaylor.smugmug.com/photos/406949674_EBNhK-M.jpg

Jimbo_1321
November 3rd, 2008, 18:47
Here is a picture of the new shocks we are going to run on my car for the race.
http://davidgtaylor.smugmug.com/photos/406949674_EBNhK-M.jpg


:eek:


those are beautiful!!!

Goatman
November 4th, 2008, 08:01
Yeah, Dave's going to be super blingin'. :D

There's going to be some bad ass equipment coming to this next race. Lot's of cars getting reworked and many brand new cars. We'll have our work cut out for us to have a top finish again, but we're going for it.

Got the rear gears installed, so 5.13's now instead of the 4.56's. Lost some low range speed, which I really liked, but we need the power for the fast sections. We're going out this Sat, so we'll see how much nicer it is at speed with the lower gears and I'll do some more tuning on the rear ORI Struts. I'm waiting to hear when the front ORI's are coming, hopefully in the next week or so.

MoparManiac
November 4th, 2008, 08:41
Sweet! Man if I could donate anything for a stroker I totally would...I just have a spare '91 4.0 sitting around though that's about it.

Good luck man!

cal
November 4th, 2008, 09:42
Sweet! Man if I could donate anything for a stroker I totally would...I just have a spare '91 4.0 sitting around though that's about it.

Good luck man!


You're not far off. I have most of a stroker sitting around already, if I could come up with a low miles 4.0 (something I could re-use the pistons/block on without issues) I could probably throw together a 4.5l stroker out of my beer fund, with a few donations from people who have already offered them.

Low miles 4.0's keep falling through at the last minute though.

MoparManiac
November 4th, 2008, 09:53
You're not far off. I have most of a stroker sitting around already, if I could come up with a low miles 4.0 (something I could re-use the pistons/block on without issues) I could probably throw together a 4.5l stroker out of my beer fund, with a few donations from people who have already offered them.

Low miles 4.0's keep falling through at the last minute though.

230k miles is low right? :D

I dunno how useful it is, it had some blowby when I pulled it so I'm sure it's wornout. Also had water in the oil at one point (driven for an hour or so after). I doubt you'll want to deal with this mess.

I'm also on the other side of the country :(. I wonder how expensive it would be to ship this thing lol.

cal
November 4th, 2008, 10:04
230k miles is low right? :D

I dunno how useful it is, it had some blowby when I pulled it so I'm sure it's wornout. Also had water in the oil at one point (driven for an hour or so after). I doubt you'll want to deal with this mess.

I'm also on the other side of the country :(. I wonder how expensive it would be to ship this thing lol.


Not worth the trouble. :)

What sucks, is I have a 4.0 with 81,000 miles on it sitting in my XJ, and a stroker in the garage to swap it out with - but no time to make it all happen before KOH.

MoparManiac
November 4th, 2008, 10:12
Not worth the trouble. :)

What sucks, is I have a 4.0 with 81,000 miles on it sitting in my XJ, and a stroker in the garage to swap it out with - but no time to make it all happen before KOH.

That's always the case...too many projects and not enough time lol. If I were about 3000 miles closer I'd be glad to give a hand :D.

Boostwerks.com
November 4th, 2008, 10:29
Hey Goatman. If your interested, I could work with you on fabbing up a turbo manifold/setup for your rig. If you are send me a PM and we'll talk more. :)

Thanks,
Bryson

cal
November 4th, 2008, 12:07
Welp, looks like I came up a low miles core.

Someones donating a cam/springs.

I've got a 4.2 crank/rods I'll throw in, along with a timing set, high volume oil pump and clifford water pump. I've got a spare ported and polished head on the bench too.

I need to come up with a bunch of wear parts, but I think we may be able to throw something together in time after all.

XJ_ranger
November 4th, 2008, 14:56
Welp, looks like I came up a low miles core.

Someones donating a cam/springs.

I've got a 4.2 crank/rods I'll throw in, along with a timing set, high volume oil pump and clifford water pump. I've got a spare ported and polished head on the bench too.

I need to come up with a bunch of wear parts, but I think we may be able to throw something together in time after all.

Cal - shoot me a PM with the list of stuff you need...

this is for Richard's jeep - right? :wierd:

cal
November 4th, 2008, 14:58
Cal - shoot me a PM with the list of stuff you need...

this is for Richard's jeep - right? :wierd:


Yeah. The one for my jeep is nearly done.

I'm going to need a full gasket set, a full set of bearings of some quality (size yet unknown), a set of rings (size unknown), a full set of lifters, a harmonic balancer, and I'd like to find a 99+ intake manifold.

If someone had a good set of aftermarket valve springs, they wouldnt hurt. The guy donating the came is intending to buy those himself as part of his contribution, but he's already donating a costly cam, if I can save him some cash.. ;)

Phil
November 4th, 2008, 15:00
What about a set of bearings of some size and quality unknown?

cal
November 4th, 2008, 15:03
What about a set of bearings of some size and quality unknown?


While those might work better than wraping the crank in slices of leather, I think given Richards habit of running at 4,000 rpm's for extended periods I should slide some quality parts in here and there. =)

Phil
November 4th, 2008, 15:05
I prefer my crank in a little plastic baggy.

cal
November 4th, 2008, 15:07
I prefer my crank in a little plastic baggy.


Well, you -are- from sacramento..

cal
January 16th, 2009, 11:11
I guess we never came back to this.

Finished the stroker, it turned out way insane. In high range, richard shifts from 1 to 2 on climbs that I won't try unless I'm in low range - and it pulls solid from a somewhat lopey idle until you're moving so fast you can't keep your foot on the gas.

Cost came in a little higher than forcasted and I mostly depleted my 'good parts' stash, but we ended up with -way- more engine than we were anticipating.

Now I'm worried about twisting off rear axle shafts. :(

ChiXJeff
January 16th, 2009, 11:18
Good gawd, it sounds like a monster. And doesn't darned near everything come in over budget?

Is there any chance of the rig getting dyno'ed?

cal
January 16th, 2009, 11:23
Good gawd, it sounds like a monster. And doesn't darned near everything come in over budget?

Is there any chance of the rig getting dyno'ed?


If we were to do that, we'd probably want to do an engine dyno and not ground dyno .. and no, no chance of that. Its installed and running, it was FAR more difficult than it should have been to get it all done and its not coming back out. :)

I suppose if someone had a rear wheel dyno in bako that would take 40's, Richard might be willing to give it a try - but I don't know that its necessary.

I'm going to guess, looking at the various formulas around and peoples posted results, that we're somewhere in the 275 horsepower range. The cam we used (mopar 30ab) puts our peak torque and horsepower in the 3000-4000 rpm range where its really useful, instead of having to sit at redline to get the job done.

And let me tell you, it drinks the gas. I've arranged a 55 gallon drum of fuel for KOH week, and as I'm looking at fuel consumption, race day and practice plans, I'm starting to question if thats enough (we do have to feed 2 rigs..).

Supermanxj
January 16th, 2009, 13:20
I guess we never came back to this.

Finished the stroker, it turned out way insane. In high range, richard shifts from 1 to 2 on climbs that I won't try unless I'm in low range - and it pulls solid from a somewhat lopey idle until you're moving so fast you can't keep your foot on the gas.

Cost came in a little higher than forcasted and I mostly depleted my 'good parts' stash, but we ended up with -way- more engine than we were anticipating.

Now I'm worried about twisting off rear axle shafts. :(

Can you do a parts list of all the stuff you guys used???
Maybe a thread??
Sounds like what i want in my Jeep.


P.S. I sometimes wear my Team NAXJA KOH shirt @ work (Smalltown NAPA) and everbody says that the shirt is bad Arse... it is one of my favorite shirts

cal
January 16th, 2009, 13:23
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=978342

ask and i will search. :)

Here's a quick quote, since the good stuff doesnt start until 20 posts or so into that thread.


ok. Now that I'm at my desk, had some coffee, and had a chance to replace the cell phone I dropped Richards head on sunday morning.

First, Thanks Russ! You busted your ass and made a mess of your shop, but got the engine done sorta within our deadline. Much Apprciated!

Thanks to Mike Finch (willy51). He was there every day helping, and probably drove 600 miles running my errands.

Cal: "Hey, run to Sequioa's and pick up his 99 shortblock, I need a part off of it." Mike: here you go Cal: "Great! now run to Kyungs and do the same thing."

He's a trooper.

Thanks to Kris Tholke, Sequioa, Kyung and a few others for chipping in parts. Some were pretty minor, a few were far from minor. :)


For those who want to know

4.2 12cw crank
KB 944 forged pistons
4.0 rods
7120 head ported/polished
mopar performance 30ab cam (Thanks Kris!)
mopar performance valve springs/keepers/shims
late model main brace
cloyes timing set
Hesco high volume blueprinted oil pump part M167HVS
Clifford Performance blueprinted water pump
a lot of custom machined stuff
a lot of arp stuff
a lot of one-of russ stuff

I'm tired, the numbers are a big blur in my head, but iirc Russ cut about .060 out between the deck and the head, we're in the 10.5 cr range and around .045 quench

An entire day just building rods.
http://www.shadowco.org/~cal/temp/stroker/IMAGE_020.jpg

The KB pistons could have a better dish, but no time for custom.
http://www.shadowco.org/~cal/temp/stroker/IMAGE_021.jpg

This is one heavy crank, and it uses every bit of room available to it.
http://www.shadowco.org/~cal/temp/stroker/IMAGE_026.jpg

In fact, it uses so much room we had to make custom spacers to fit the main brace. Don't try this at home! :) Later, we had to clearance the oil pan both for the brace and high volume hesco oil pickup.
http://www.shadowco.org/~cal/temp/stroker/IMAGE_031.jpg

Oooh pretty!
http://www.shadowco.org/~cal/temp/stroker/IMAGE_032.jpg

I dropped the head on my 3 day old $500 cell phone just after that picture, so that was the last one I took. I'm sure Russ can chime in with more details on the motor at his leasure, but right now strokers are probably the last thing on his mind. :)

-C

cal
January 16th, 2009, 13:28
I've got a mopar performance distributor, MSD ignition and JET ecu for renix we were going to throw in, but decided there are too many unknowns and reliability is more important than a few extra horsepower.

We're running a renix pcm with a bored renix throttle body, on an HO intake and header. Its a pretty tight setup.

Supermanxj
January 16th, 2009, 13:45
That is B-E-A-uuu-Tee-ful.

Thanks Cal for postin up!

josh

Jes
January 16th, 2009, 16:20
If we were to do that, we'd probably want to do an engine dyno and not ground dyno .. and no, no chance of that. Its installed and running, it was FAR more difficult than it should have been to get it all done and its not coming back out. :)

I suppose if someone had a rear wheel dyno in bako that would take 40's, Richard might be willing to give it a try - but I don't know that its necessary.

I'm going to guess, looking at the various formulas around and peoples posted results, that we're somewhere in the 275 horsepower range. The cam we used (mopar 30ab) puts our peak torque and horsepower in the 3000-4000 rpm range where its really useful, instead of having to sit at redline to get the job done.

And let me tell you, it drinks the gas. I've arranged a 55 gallon drum of fuel for KOH week, and as I'm looking at fuel consumption, race day and practice plans, I'm starting to question if thats enough (we do have to feed 2 rigs..).


Sounds like mine. I only have about 400 miles on it since I installed it last January but it seems I get around 7MPG in the ways I've used it so far(95% off road use). Damn though, the thing brings a smile every time I get on it. :cheers:

XJ_ranger
January 17th, 2009, 22:04
Damn though, the thing brings a smile every time I get on it. :cheers:

were you smiling here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb5fJm8rjlE

??

:D :D

Jimbo_1321
January 17th, 2009, 23:19
were you smiling here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb5fJm8rjlE

??

:D :D



I was smiling just watching that!
:D

Goatman
January 18th, 2009, 23:21
Here's the latest work on the buggy. It's pretty stripped down, wheels are off, skins are off, shocks are off getting rebuilt and revalved, seats are out, fuel cell and plumbing are out. Figuring that three weeks ago the motor was out, the rig has been pretty stripped down. This racing is hard work. :D

http://fototime.com/B009143C7F4642B/standard.jpg


Cal is putting in a Compu-shift so I can lock it in 2nd gear, ans installing the new VHF radio.

http://fototime.com/FF79D705897ABA8/standard.jpg

http://fototime.com/C778655DB390FA8/standard.jpg

Goatman
January 18th, 2009, 23:30
Cal and Mike drove up Fri afternoon and we worked on the rig Fri, Sat and Sun. Cal spent about 8 hours doing misc electrical work, plus a bunch of other stuff. Mike built the mounts for the two fuel cells. I replaced the main 12 gal cell with a 16 gal, and we're installing the 12 gal as a 2nd tank just for the race.

http://fototime.com/FAA52DEA47102A8/standard.jpg


Here's the spare tire carrier, it bolts to the rear of the buggy with tube clamps and will come off after the race.

http://fototime.com/E530D17CEE0A2B5/standard.jpg

http://fototime.com/11901685FB306F7/standard.jpg

Goatman
January 18th, 2009, 23:38
The two fuel cells are in, a pretty tight fit, and the spare tire carrier is bolted up, with the spare on to try it out. there are tabs on the tire rack for a couple of ratchet straps that will be used to hold the tire on. We plan to try a stock XJ screw jack and keep it in the storage area under the seats.

http://fototime.com/D562010DDC6C6EA/standard.jpg

http://fototime.com/759A119A1703303/standard.jpg

http://fototime.com/7D2527389025C23/standard.jpg

cal
January 18th, 2009, 23:59
Its funny how much less work that looks like in the photos. I almost feel like its not the same jeep who's metal shavings I am covered in. :)

willy51
January 19th, 2009, 00:23
Realy i think we should just run the bungee cord for the race, light weight and fast :)

Jump This
January 19th, 2009, 06:46
Soon and very soon......

crasy1_69
January 19th, 2009, 07:27
Wow guys it looks like the rig will be much improved over last year. Good luck on the race. Wish I was closer so I could help out with either of the teams.

Craig

karstic
January 19th, 2009, 10:57
The two fuel cells are in, a pretty tight fit, and the spare tire carrier is bolted up, with the spare on to try it out. there are tabs on the tire rack for a couple of ratchet straps that will be used to hold the tire on. We plan to try a stock XJ screw jack and keep it in the storage area under the seats.

http://fototime.com/D562010DDC6C6EA/standard.jpg

http://fototime.com/759A119A1703303/standard.jpg

http://fototime.com/7D2527389025C23/standard.jpg

Wanna use my Beard 3-point ratchet strap for the spare?

willy51
January 19th, 2009, 11:34
Ah ha, a 3 point would work out pretty well. In fact we were trying to figure out how to use 3 points but didnt want to make up a whole new ratchet strap to get it done. Let Richard know and we might use it. How long is it steve?

GSequoia
January 19th, 2009, 11:49
http://fototime.com/B009143C7F4642B/standard.jpg

Just like trimming trees!

http://fototime.com/FF79D705897ABA8/standard.jpg

Despite being raised on the mean streets of Fullerton Cal never did quite get the hang of hotwiring cars.

willy51
January 19th, 2009, 14:35
Yeah but the glasses are all the rage with the new fullerton car thief crews :)

Yep metal is easier than trees, if you cut off to much a welder can make it all better

cal
January 19th, 2009, 14:40
Despite being raised on the mean streets of Fullerton Cal never did quite get the hang of hotwiring cars.

As a matter of fact, I hotwired that car just a couple hours before; and then installed a new ignition switch that doesn't randomly stick to 'start'. ;)

karstic
January 19th, 2009, 16:58
Ah ha, a 3 point would work out pretty well. In fact we were trying to figure out how to use 3 points but didnt want to make up a whole new ratchet strap to get it done. Let Richard know and we might use it. How long is it steve?

http://inlinethumb02.webshots.com/43841/2969742600037273218S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2969742600037273218BTRvkW)

The two static arms can extend to ~48", the ratchet arm is ~40"

Goatman
January 19th, 2009, 19:25
I like that! It has the clip ends, which can stay attached at the top two points so it's faster to use and we won't misplace it. Simple on and simple off.........and ONE strap. :looser:

:D



Edit: Oops.......it won't clip into the 1/2" hole tabs we used. Hmmmm......

willy51
January 19th, 2009, 22:24
just a matter of putting on new tabs. No problem :)

markw
January 20th, 2009, 23:22
You guys ever hear about radio frequencies? Should I bring an extra rig? Hand helds?

karstic
January 21st, 2009, 05:19
Mike now has the ratchet strap, hope it works for you.

David Taylor
January 21st, 2009, 07:30
You guys ever hear about radio frequencies? Should I bring an extra rig? Hand helds?


Not sure on the frequencies yet. If you have any spares of anything that we
might or could use I would say bring it if you can. :wave1:

willy51
January 22nd, 2009, 07:25
Have strap will travel. Thanks Karstic, i'll let you know how it turns out.

David Taylor
January 22nd, 2009, 07:31
Have strap will travel. Thanks Karstic, i'll let you know how it turns out.


So you have your strap-on and are going to see Richard this weekend ?

http://inlinethumb36.webshots.com/16163/2669640200037273218S600x600Q85.jpg

Carol.92124
January 22nd, 2009, 11:05
So you have your strap-on and are going to see Richard this weekend ?

http://inlinethumb36.webshots.com/16163/2669640200037273218S600x600Q85.jpg
Nice... just don't let Richard get your Goat...or he'll feel really sheepish. I know... baaaaad puns. Sorry!

willy51
January 22nd, 2009, 23:01
dear god carol that was terrible, and tecnicaly its karstics, im just holding it for him. ;)

Goatman
January 23rd, 2009, 00:38
Lot's, lot's to do yet. Progress has been slow this week, nearly all of my time has been messing with the plumbing on the fuel cells, and a little bit of welding to beef up the frame side rear control arm mounts, and re-mount the amber light. Getting the 3 Walbro pickups in the main tank was a real PIA, and time consuming. I also found that I had no rollover valve in the other fuel cell like I thought I had. There was simply a rubber fuel hose attatched to the inside of the fitting, and that hose was deteriorating with chunks of rubber in the bottom of the cell. I removed the foam, removed the fitting to be able to remove the hose, and cleaned out the tank. The vent lines are properly routed, just need to install the ball valve. A new rollover valve will be here tomorrow, so tomorrow night the tanks and plumbing will be finished.

Still need to:

Replace 2 rod ends on the steering, and replace the bolts
Align front tires
Add gusset to frame side front UCA mount
Install axle side UCA mount and control arm
Install rear LCA's with new bolts
Install all four shocks and air them up to set ride height
Fix t-case vent line and route to new can along with the rear diff vent
Make new floor panel to cover the t-case
Remove bump stop pads and old coil perches from front axle
Install seats and new seat belts
Bolt down console
Mount up four new tires
Install cutting brakes

That's the stuff I "hope" to get finished by mid week next week, ready to head to JV for the weekend. When I get back then more stuff needs to get done, including replacing more bolts, torquing every bolt to spec and marking them with Torque Seal, moving the air line fittings, dealing with a second battery and ability to weld, making and installing new skins, installing all new stickers, changing the oil, building a heat shield over the muffler, pulling apart the drivers side knuckle to check the unit bearing, making an additional bracket on the pass side motor mount, changing the oil and filter, etc.

It's going to stay very busy. :D

Jump This
January 23rd, 2009, 07:07
Can I watch?

:D

David Taylor
January 23rd, 2009, 07:41
My list is long but getting shorter.

This weekend is
mount GPS
horn
fuel ball valves
battery kill switch
mirror
new power sterring pump and remote res
replace coolant with legal stuff
more catch cans for tranny, t-case, steerig

willy51
January 23rd, 2009, 10:45
you said "change the oil twice" See im shortening the list allready :) Dont worry Richard im coming to the rescue!

Goatman
January 23rd, 2009, 12:52
you said "change the oil twice" See im shortening the list allready :) Dont worry Richard im coming to the rescue!

:clap:


:worship:


:cheers:

Jes
January 23rd, 2009, 16:22
My list is long but getting shorter.

This weekend is
new power sterring pump and remote res



Sorry, I don't think you'll be getting that stuff till Monday or Tuesday. :banghead:

David Taylor
January 23rd, 2009, 16:34
Sorry, I don't think you'll be getting that stuff till Monday or Tuesday. :banghead:


I still have plenty to keep me busy. :gee:

Thanks for sending everything down. The steering will be well traveled
when it does get here. They sent another order today and swear it's going
to the right place.

Goatman
January 23rd, 2009, 18:02
All of my parts are here now. ORI shocks arrived after all four were upgraded and the valving changed, and I got a new female rod end for the steering ram and a roll over check valve for the fuel cell. The hood has a bunch of stuff setting on it that need to be installed.

It will be another busy weekend.

Avanteone
January 25th, 2009, 22:24
It will be another busy weekend.

Weekend is over, updates? :laugh3:

willy51
January 26th, 2009, 09:19
OK OK, but i had to get some sleep first :)

Heres what got done over the weekend

Cut off old spring mount and front bump stop plates.
Gusset lower control arm brackets
Heat / fuel shield over exhaust
Install roll over valve in vent line
Fabricate Tcase access pannel
Vent Tcase and rear axle
mount breather/catch can
Finish tank plumbing and wet test
Wire tie atlas control arm Eclip mount
Check front drive shaft bolts
Gusset tire carrier and add 1 tab for y strap
dismount old tires and mount new tires, Torque bead locks and check seal
New braided custom hand made rear brake lines
build mounting bracket for cutting brakes
mount and blead cutting brakes.
tab and mount center console
install driver rear lower control arm
revers passenger rear lower control arm

heres some pics
http://s451.photobucket.com/albums/qq235/willy51_naxja/KOH%20prep/

Thats the short list, im sure there was other things but its all just a little blurry right now :)

Goatman
January 26th, 2009, 09:58
We got quite a bit done this weekend, and Mike did most of it. I had to work all weekend, so could only work on the rig Fri and Sat after work. Mike worked on it all day Sat and half of Sunday. Many, many thanks to Mike for driving up and putting in the time, I would be in trouble without his help.

We keep finding some little things that would be good to do as we go along. My goal is to be reliable and durable, I really, really want to finish this race. Thankfully, the rig is well tested so we have a decent idea of what the weak points could be and are addressing them. Bad luck and the unexpected can always strike, but we're tryng to be well prepared.

I'm real glad Mike got the cutting brakes installed, he made a nice bracket to mount them between the seats. This is insurance against loosing air to the rear locker, I can always use the cutting brakes instead of locking the rear. I'm going to pull the front cover and lock in the front locker so it will be like a spool for the race.

Tonight I'll put the ORI shocks back on and get the wheels/tires back on, put some gas in it and fire it up. I want to hear what the new muffler sounds like. We ditched the Flowmaster because it's too big and generates too much heat, the new Morroso muffler is smaller but it could be louder. Mike made a heat shield/gas deflector so any gas that might spill off the fuel cell when filling up won't run onto the exhaust. I also need to install new seat belts and put the seats back in, plus finish securing more lines and wires. We're heading back to JV this weekend for more running, testing and practicing. The ORI shocks were sent back for an upgrade and some re-valving, so we'll get them dialed in this weekend. We'll see how fast we can go now with the extra weight in the back and even better valving.

David Taylor
January 26th, 2009, 12:06
I got a ton of stuff done this weekend. Catch cans for tranny and T-case
and I'm legal. All that's left this week is mounting the power steering res and
GPS.

karstic
January 26th, 2009, 15:17
OK OK, but i had to get some sleep first :)

Heres what got done over the weekend

...
Gusset tire carrier and add 1 tab for y strap

...

:)

Gonna use it?

:yelclap:

I want it back after the race.

willy51
January 26th, 2009, 19:43
thats the plan, both use it and get it back to you after the race. Me being the blonde tard that i can be some times, i forgot it in my jeep when i took Cal's honda out there. Thanks again Cal for the use of the honda and Dan Hyatt for use of the Plasma cutter.

GSequoia
January 26th, 2009, 21:09
YOu know Mike most people who want to rack up a million miles in a short time just get a job as a truck driver...

willy51
January 27th, 2009, 01:18
I do drive a truck, its just not as profitable :). and the horn goes beep beep beep

Goatman
January 27th, 2009, 19:05
It's back supporting itself after 3 weeks on jack stands! :D


The shocks and tires went back on this morning. I need to air up the shocks and set ride height, put in the seat belts and seats, and fix a small fuel leak at one of the ball valves (same valve Mike, the other side). The cutting brakes are working, had to fix a leak in one of the fittings, and I changed out a couple rod ends in the steering. I tightened a bunch of bolts and marked them with Torque Seal so they are easy to watch and see if they move, this is cool stuff. Got the new brake lines secured on the rear axle, and used a bunch of wire ties to secure more lines and wires. This thing has bags of wire ties on it. :)

willy51
January 28th, 2009, 00:40
yup, 22.84 pounds of wire ties.

RedHeep
January 28th, 2009, 05:20
I tightened a bunch of bolts and marked them with Torque Seal so they are easy to watch and see if they move, this is cool stuff.

:thumbup:

Did you have enough?

Goatman
January 28th, 2009, 09:18
:thumbup:

Did you have enough?


I don't think we'll run out. :D



Thanks again.

cal
January 28th, 2009, 12:06
:thumbup:

Did you have enough?


You shoulda seen the look on his face when he opened the box and there were 30 tubes staring at him. I was wondering if he planned to mark every bolt on every buggy competing.. ;)

RedHeep
January 28th, 2009, 16:59
You shoulda seen the look on his face when he opened the box and there were 30 tubes staring at him. I was wondering if he planned to mark every bolt on every buggy competing.. ;)

Well, the tubes aren't very big (2.5 oz) and I know the bolts are big. Besides, I wanted to make sure there was enough for everyone.

I'm really curious to see how it holds up to the vibration. Works really good in airplanes.

XJ_ranger
January 28th, 2009, 20:43
The cutting brakes are working, had to fix a leak in one of the fittings,

What did you end up running for cutting brakes?

Do you have control over every tire individually, or just fronts and rears? or just either rear?

I'm thinking that cutting brakes will be a MAJOR project in my rig, because I want to use the 2 in, 2 out style with the 2 MC's and 1 handle (this one (http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/Single-Handle-Cutting-Brakes-2in-2out-p-283.html)) and be able to control each tire individually - so the plumbing will be quite interesting...

cal
January 29th, 2009, 10:00
What did you end up running for cutting brakes?

Do you have control over every tire individually, or just fronts and rears? or just either rear?

I'm thinking that cutting brakes will be a MAJOR project in my rig, because I want to use the 2 in, 2 out style with the 2 MC's and 1 handle (this one (http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/Single-Handle-Cutting-Brakes-2in-2out-p-283.html)) and be able to control each tire individually - so the plumbing will be quite interesting...


Two levers, each rear wheel.

http://www.shadowco.org/~cal/temp/cuttingbrake.jpg

Goatman
January 29th, 2009, 19:45
Well, the tubes aren't very big (2.5 oz) and I know the bolts are big. Besides, I wanted to make sure there was enough for everyone.

I'm really curious to see how it holds up to the vibration. Works really good in airplanes.

We'll know more after this weekend, I marked a bunch of front end bolts to see how it works.




I'm tired. Been working nearly non-stop (plus regular work) for 6 weeks. I'm ready to do more testing.... :D

willy51
January 30th, 2009, 00:36
Testing hmmm, i better keep my welding helmet handy, :) just playing.

Goatman
January 30th, 2009, 08:09
Testing hmmm, i better keep my welding helmet handy, :) just playing.

I'm bringing it with me.......you left it here. :)

I'm outta here in a few minutes.

Carol.92124
January 30th, 2009, 10:38
I'm bringing it with me.......you left it here. :)

I'm outta here in a few minutes.
Good luck & Happy Testing, guys!

tcm glx
January 30th, 2009, 23:05
Keep us posted on the testing guys!!

willy51
January 31st, 2009, 23:23
Well, nobody got away scott free. Paul = bent rim, Richard = electrical gremlin, Dave = well, check out the pics and see if you can spot the problems :)

http://s451.photobucket.com/albums/qq235/willy51_naxja/KOH%20prep/?action=tageditmany&page=2

GSequoia
January 31st, 2009, 23:26
Fixed your link for you:

http://s451.photobucket.com/albums/qq235/willy51_naxja/KOH%20prep/

willy51
January 31st, 2009, 23:50
Tank u misr geff. i is tard some time :)

GSequoia
February 1st, 2009, 01:16
Did Dave try to remove his axle without a wrench?

willy51
February 1st, 2009, 09:54
acctuly Gary was going for the trifecta, upper control arm mount, steering lines and drive shaft.

Goatman
February 2nd, 2009, 08:46
We spent the weekend at JV running and testing some more. If it was race day we'd have been in trouble. Dave's front UCA axle mount broke off, thankfully they were coming to a stop when it broke and coasted to stop and didn't damage the new shocks, but broke the driveline. Very good to find that weakness this weekend, we fixed it and wheeled the rest of the weekend and he'll beef it up at home.

I had a starting problem, the fuel pump wouldn't come on, but after hard wiring the pump we determined that most likely it wasn't a pump wiring problem it was most likely power somehow interupted to the ECU. The next time we stopped, the motor wouldn't shut off, even after cutting the battery disconnect switch (which is supposed to cut power to the ECU/coil). We disconnected the hard wire to the pump to kill the motor, which had to be backfeeding the ECU. After that it started up and never did it again the rest of the weekend. I also have a trans problem, it occasionally holds in gear until over 4000 rpm, and then downshifts the same way. We'll have to work on both of those problems. I also need to replace my battery, the expensive Total Power AGM battery is bad and won't hold a full charge, so I need to decide on a new battery.

Garry has the lines on Backdoor down pretty well, and after some more seat time is comfortable in Dave's rig and doing well on the trail. The rig is very capable, so unless they have some real bad luck they should qualify to get into the race.

The shocks are working well, mine are even better after getting them back from ORI and we did more adjusting this weekend. We could probably get them even better, but they're pretty close, and plenty good enough for the race. It's scary how fast we can go through small to medium whoops and rough sections, you wonder how the rig can take much of that abuse. If we drive the whole race at the speed that's possible it's hard to imagine that it will all hold together. Fast suspension cycling and hard hits just don't seem to go together with heavy 40" tires. I think our strategy needs to be somewhat conservative and wisely choose when it's good to use the speed. I'm also going to add more reinforcing to some of the control arm and shock mounts, 100 miles of that type of racing with our massive unsprung weight is going to be brutal on every component.

I need to drop the belley pan and wrap the exhaust under the floor, it got hot enough to melt a tool bag that always sits under the seat and to melt the spray bedliner that's on the floor, and that's only running a fraction of the time we'll be running in the race. We'll do more to deal with the heat.

I don't know what all Dave has left on his list, but here's a partial list of what I need and want to do:

Get new battery

Find trans problem

Check starting/ECU power problem

Get and mount 2nd fire extinguisher

Reinforce front frame control arm mounts, add plate inside floor

Replace drag link rod end and track bar rod end and double sheer both steering rod ends

Rebuild CTM joints

Replace fuel line from pump to hard line, add protection, fix leak by filter, replace filter

Make and install new skins and install new stickers

Wrap exhaust under floor and fuel lines by header

Replace front axle seal....leaking again

Install new wheel studs and new hub bolts

Lock/spool front locker

Fix/replace broken rear air locker switch

Torque every bolt and mark with torque strip

Add rear view mirror for Paul

Change engine oil and filter

Replace driveline u-bolts, get more spares

Install spare rear driveline

Fix/replace front winch cable

See about dipstick sealing

Program frequencies into radios, read manual, learn to operate radio

GTOROCKS RACING
February 2nd, 2009, 09:51
Hola Richard,

See you there Amigos,

Sweet XJ! :piratefla

GET READY TO PARTY BONGO STYLE!

PONCE & JOHNNY,
KOH® LCQ TEAM (http://www.gtorocksracing.com/id22.html)
VIVA MEXICO!

willy51
February 2nd, 2009, 10:18
Richard, we should give the Air cleaner a proper cleaning as well.

Phil
February 2nd, 2009, 11:53
Richard,

What's your plan for the exhaust? Just header wrap tape as much as you can get to?

I've heard the wrap can hold moisture against the exhaust, promoting corrosion. Is this a concern for you?

Is Dave still running a radius arm front?

David Taylor
February 2nd, 2009, 12:55
Richard,



Is Dave still running a radius arm front?


Yes. with only one upper link.

Goatman
February 2nd, 2009, 19:01
Richard,

What's your plan for the exhaust? Just header wrap tape as much as you can get to?

I've heard the wrap can hold moisture against the exhaust, promoting corrosion. Is this a concern for you?



That's why I haven't used it before. But, we only want to use it where the exhaust goes between the belly pan and floor, and really, the rig sits in the garage all the time except when it's in the desert, so moisture probably isn't a concern.

Carol.92124
February 2nd, 2009, 19:23
really, the rig sits in the garage all the time except when it's in the desert, so moisture probably isn't a concern.
And Bakersfield isn't known for high humidity, either =)

karstic
February 2nd, 2009, 19:39
Richard do you want this?

http://inlinethumb11.webshots.com/30282/2419996220037273218S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2419996220037273218VxfFDg)

I could send it out USPS Priority mail, it should get to you by the weekend.

Los Lobos
February 2nd, 2009, 20:03
Richard I am having a similar issue with the exhaust melting items through the floor. I wrapped the exhaust and still melt everything on the inside floor. I tried the cookie sheet idea(with wrapped exhaust) and had it deform and still melt items inside. I will try a piece of sheet metal with a 1/4" floor spacing next.

CanMan
February 2nd, 2009, 20:37
It might not cost very much, but maybe have the tubing Jet Hot coated?

Stuff works real well on some of the street cars i've delt with.

www.jet-hot.com (http://www.jet-hot.com)

Goatman
February 2nd, 2009, 22:58
Richard do you want this?

http://inlinethumb11.webshots.com/30282/2419996220037273218S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2419996220037273218VxfFDg)

I could send it out USPS Priority mail, it should get to you by the weekend.

Yes, would love to have it. I'll need to get some. Cal may be coming up next weekend, could you get it to him if he's coming? Or, I'll give you my address.

Goatman
February 2nd, 2009, 22:59
It might not cost very much, but maybe have the tubing Jet Hot coated?

Stuff works real well on some of the street cars i've delt with.

www.jet-hot.com (http://www.jet-hot.com)

That would be nice, but I'm not going to take it out.........was too much of a PIA to get it in. :)

Goatman
February 2nd, 2009, 23:01
Richard I am having a similar issue with the exhaust melting items through the floor. I wrapped the exhaust and still melt everything on the inside floor. I tried the cookie sheet idea(with wrapped exhaust) and had it deform and still melt items inside. I will try a piece of sheet metal with a 1/4" floor spacing next.

Maybe we'll have to wrap it twice. :D

RedHeep
February 3rd, 2009, 04:38
Header wrap is still going to let the exhaust pipe radiate heat. I have wrap on my bike exhaust and still burn my leg when it lays against the pipe.

You need a floor insulation with a heat barrier. I'm not sure how big of an area you need to cover, but something like this adhesive based barrier would do the trick. You need to insulate the floor, not wrap the pipe.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Thermo+Tec/750869/10002/-1

There are a bunch of companies out there that sell heat barrier material for race cars, but I won't insult you with the google link :D

Goatman
February 3rd, 2009, 08:52
:rolleyes:

When I got this XJ, the floor was covered with that stuff. I thought the guy spent a fortune putting it all on. I spent what seems like days getting that stuff off because I thought it looked lame on the floor of the buggy, it was under carpet on the XJ. Go figure.....

The floor is also covered with spray on bedliner, which at the time was under the heat mat. The heat from the exhaust is burning the bedliner, which would still be under the mat if we put it on top of the floor. I guess that means we need to put it under the floor. That big Rigwerks belly pan is great, but it's a PIA to remove and put back on. Oh well.

When you're on the throttle for very long stretches it's amazing how much heat is developed.......that will be a major problem for many competitors because they've never run that hard for that long before. Lot's of the new builds have the exhaust wraped all the way back, maybe we'll do both, wrap and heat shield.

willy51
February 3rd, 2009, 10:23
Might be the idea is to put the adhesive heat shield on the inside of the tunnel, thus the heat doesnt get to the floor board. With what we have running along that side of the tunnel, might not be a bad thing.

GSequoia
February 3rd, 2009, 10:23
Richard.

Just get Mike to fab some stacks coming out of the hood.

Problem solved. :laugh3:

RedHeep
February 3rd, 2009, 10:44
I guess that means we need to put it under the floor. That big Rigwerks belly pan is great, but it's a PIA to remove and put back on. Oh well.

When you're on the throttle for very long stretches it's amazing how much heat is developed.......that will be a major problem for many competitors because they've never run that hard for that long before. Lot's of the new builds have the exhaust wraped all the way back, maybe we'll do both, wrap and heat shield.

That's exactly what I meant. You need a barrier between the floor and the exhaust.

karstic
February 3rd, 2009, 17:43
Yes, would love to have it. I'll need to get some. Cal may be coming up next weekend, could you get it to him if he's coming? Or, I'll give you my address.

Richard it's in the mail you should have it in a day or two

Goatman
February 3rd, 2009, 18:36
Richard it's in the mail you should have it in a day or two

Very cool. Thanks.

tcm glx
February 3rd, 2009, 22:35
Very cool. Thanks.

You got some other stuff in the mail heading your way too!! :gee:

Goatman
February 3rd, 2009, 23:00
You got some other stuff in the mail heading your way too!! :gee:


Thanks, Tony. I'm looking for it. :)

Los Lobos
February 3rd, 2009, 23:02
The reflective stuff didn't do squat for me either. It is now melted to the bottom of a milk crate I used for tools. I really think the best answer would be a piece of sheet metal(heat shield) with an air space between the floor and exhaust. I'm just trying to save you some time and effort since I just tried everything else you're thinking of. I have the exhaust wrapped stem to stern minus muffler and cat.

It does warm soup and sausage nicely!

Grant
February 4th, 2009, 09:34
While the jet-hot coatings are nice and do work, they are $$ and you are out of time.

Heat tape works, as noted with a risk of retaining moisture in humid climates

Seperate aluminum or sheet metal shields are likely your best option, and likely cheapest too.

The heatshield available from places like Summit does work, but can be spendy. I have to run some on the bodywork of the sportsracer, where the exhaust exits, and the gold leaf foil which works best is over $50 for a 2 x 2 ft sq. The adhesive backed aluminum sheet is a little cheaper, but a real PITA to install and in a desert enviroment will deteriorate rather quickly.

will throw all my heat shield stuff in the "to go to KOH" pile

cal
February 4th, 2009, 09:35
I'll swing by target and pick up a couple of Airbake cookie sheets before I come up Friday Richard.

We can screw those to the floor over the exhaust, you'll be surprised how well they work.

Grant
February 4th, 2009, 09:38
I'll swing by target and pick up a couple of Airbake cookie sheets before I come up Friday Richard.

We can screw those to the floor over the exhaust, you'll be surprised how well they work.

bingo, cheap redneck solution, I like.

cal
February 4th, 2009, 09:44
bingo, cheap redneck solution, I like.

Thats what Richard keeps me around for; cheap redneck fixes, and to drink all of his beer.

ChiXJeff
February 4th, 2009, 10:18
I'll swing by target and pick up a couple of Airbake cookie sheets before I come up Friday Richard.

We can screw those to the floor over the exhaust, you'll be surprised how well they work.
<chuckle> I was thinking the same thing, and fighting the urge to post it up.

IXNAYXJ
February 4th, 2009, 12:41
I'll swing by target and pick up a couple of Airbake cookie sheets before I come up Friday Richard.

We can screw those to the floor over the exhaust, you'll be surprised how well they work.I tried that on my last self-immolating Cherokee with mixed results. The thing that has worked best is the heat shield (by the muffler) on late model XJs. No more Easy-Bake Flowmaster.

-----Matt-----

Goatman
February 4th, 2009, 17:14
Porch Puppy had a good idea if I can get it in there. Cut a larger size tubing in half, weld a spacer like a length of angle iron to it, insert it along the length of exhaust pipe under the floor and then hose clamp the ends to the exhaust. That should work if I can get it in there without dropping the belly pan, which I really don't want to do. I have to get under there and get a good look at it.

Cal, can the cookie sheet stuff get attached under the floor, or will it need to go on top? We should be able to bolt or screw through the floor on the ends and be able to get to it on the bottom.

ChiXJeff
February 4th, 2009, 17:26
Richard, the Airbake sheets are less than a half inch thick. They're made out of aluminum, so drilling them isn't a problem.

srimes
February 4th, 2009, 18:06
Cal, can the cookie sheet stuff get attached under the floor, or will it need to go on top? We should be able to bolt or screw through the floor on the ends and be able to get to it on the bottom.


I'm not Cal, but the cookie sheet (or any sheet metal as a shield) should go between the exhaust and the floor, and it should be spaced off of the floor as much as is practical. Insulation (fiberglass, etc.) is optional and can be used as well. Stack it like this:

(exhaust)(air gap)(cookie sheet)(air gap)(insulation)(floor)

IXNAYXJ
February 4th, 2009, 23:28
I'm not Cal, but the cookie sheet (or any sheet metal as a shield) should go between the exhaust and the floor, and it should be spaced off of the floor as much as is practical. Insulation (fiberglass, etc.) is optional and can be used as well. Stack it like this:

(exhaust)(air gap)(cookie sheet)(air gap)(insulation)(floor)Yup, but like I said, I had mixed results with this method.

-----Matt-----

Goatman
February 5th, 2009, 23:02
Repaired a broken air locker switch, fixed the console so it won't break again (hopefully), drilled out the holes in the tire rack so Stephan's nice Beard strap will work on the tire, ordered a new battery (and figured out why the other one went bad), got my CTM rebuild kits, and found a bad drivers side upper ball jount. The ball joint likely explains the DW I got a couple times last weekend while going through choppy turns. Also got in 200 3/8" x 1.25" Torx head bolts for the beadlocks, which should help to keep the tires from getting cut and gouged.

So, add replace upper ball joints and replace all beadlock bolts to the list. :D

Also got the header wrap and the HID's, thanks Stephan and Tony.

cal
February 5th, 2009, 23:08
Cal, can the cookie sheet stuff get attached under the floor, or will it need to go on top? We should be able to bolt or screw through the floor on the ends and be able to get to it on the bottom.


I used sheet metal screws with 2 washers, and attached them between the floor and exhaust with about 3/16" spacing. Just ran the screws thru the floor, and cut the extra threads off from the top with my dremel.

ruggedjeep
February 6th, 2009, 08:45
I used sheet metal screws with 2 washers, and attached them between the floor and exhaust with about 3/16" spacing. Just ran the screws thru the floor, and cut the extra threads off from the top with my dremel.

I think ill be giving this a shot. Thanks cal.

Goatman
February 6th, 2009, 12:22
I used sheet metal screws with 2 washers, and attached them between the floor and exhaust with about 3/16" spacing. Just ran the screws thru the floor, and cut the extra threads off from the top with my dremel.

I'm hoping to not have to remove the belly pan............ :)

cal
February 6th, 2009, 12:23
Can't say I blame you.

GSequoia
February 6th, 2009, 12:25
I wish I could have that week off to go play.

You guys suck. :D

Matt S.
February 6th, 2009, 18:21
I'm hoping to not have to remove the belly pan............ :)

Can't say I blame you.


Boy... it is not that hard guys! 1 floor jack, 1 impact gun and standard socket, and 1 wrench! :yap:



BTW, good luck getting ready. I am sure missing being there:(

Paul S
February 6th, 2009, 18:39
Boy... it is not that hard guys! 1 floor jack, 1 impact gun and standard socket, and 1 wrench! :yap:



BTW, good luck getting ready. I am sure missing being there:(


Where are you & why aren't you there?

Paul

GSequoia
February 6th, 2009, 18:41
Boy... it is not that hard guys! 1 floor jack, 1 impact gun and standard socket, and 1 wrench! :yap:



BTW, good luck getting ready. I am sure missing being there:(

Who the hell are you?

Matt S.
February 6th, 2009, 19:56
Where are you & why aren't you there?

Paul


I am here... at home... in Ventura! The economic times have hit hard at this home. Between trying to work enough to pay for life and go to class to get alot of education. Not there because of a huge lack of funds and time.
:tear: Plus, I am on a self invoked hiatus from wrenching, fabing, and what not! Learning to love some other things in life :D
Who the hell are you?
No one, I guess ;)

cal
February 7th, 2009, 13:00
So.

There are two plugs for a renix TPS. A 'square' one that has source, return and ground for the TCU, and a 'flat' one that has source, return and ground for the ECU.

Does anyone want to hazard a guess at what would happen if say .. there was no source power to the ECU half of the TPS? Like maybe someone in ancient history had cut the wire right at the ECU?

For one .. a new engine with a new throttle body .. won't idle. (boy, doesnt that sound familiar)?

I'm willing to bet the air fuel mixture would be off too, especially at wide open throttle, hurting your top end.

Time will tell. I wish I had remembered to bring my JET ecu for renix up with me before we test this out. Anyone driving from LA to Bako tonight?

Goatman
February 8th, 2009, 11:37
Boy... it is not that hard guys! 1 floor jack, 1 impact gun and standard socket, and 1 wrench! :yap:



BTW, good luck getting ready. I am sure missing being there:(

Remember, it's been under a rock buggy for a year........and it hasn't been treated very well. :D



The main problem with heat was that the exhaust pipe was pushed up and touchng the floor, so much that there was a small bulge in the floor from the pipe. Major heat transfer into the floor with the exhaust actually touching it. We cut a two foot slit in the floor, cut across one side with some slits, then pryed it away from the exhaust so the floor overlapped itself at the slit, creating 1/2"-1" clearance between the exhaust and the floor in the area where it was touching. Then we welded up the slits in the floor so the floor is intact (love welding galvanized sheet metal).

This morning Cal is looking at it to see if it's feasible to but a piece of the Airbake cookie sheet under the floor. Before the exhaust actually touched the floor, I never had a problem in that area, so we'll see. We are going to see more heat this year, we think.

Jump This
February 8th, 2009, 15:53
Was/is the exhaust hitting the tranny too?
Mine is and I'm wondering how much heat that is generating....

cal
February 8th, 2009, 16:09
It was not, it sits about 1.5" from the tranny.

I would be concerned if yours is hitting it.


Man, I'm glad to be home. Got a lot done this weekend. Cherokee's have too many damn wires.

Ba-Riedo
February 12th, 2009, 16:04
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd42/alexer03/02-12-09_1340.jpg

We made up a new winch rope for Goatman out of 5/16ths Superline, as well as a 50ft extension for him today at work. Those along with some other piece of recovery equipment are going to ship out tomorrow.

-Alex

cal
February 12th, 2009, 16:06
:party:

CanMan
February 12th, 2009, 20:55
:thumbup:

Goatman
February 13th, 2009, 01:15
:D :D :D

Many thanks to Masterpull, and the others who given to support the team. We feel responsible to work our butts off to make you all proud.

:repair: :repair: :repair:

:cheers:

IXNAYXJ
February 13th, 2009, 12:54
Richard, we'll have to figure out a time for me to get some publicity shots for them.

-----Matt-----

David Taylor
February 13th, 2009, 21:04
Richard, we'll have to figure out a time for me to get some publicity shots for them.

-----Matt-----


We are planning to take pics of the cars and team on Tuesday. Before all the new body panels get thrashed.:doh:

Goatman
February 13th, 2009, 21:23
Well, Paul was up for the day. We rebuilt both CTM u-joints in the front, the first one took a loooooong time, the second went fairly quick. We also replaced all four ball joints, both uppers and one lower were bad. The front shock mounts got some reinforcing, and I did even more clearancing of the axle yokes for sharp turning. The ball joints getting loose causes the yokes to hit, it's that close. I still need to bolt up the knuckles and install the axle shafts, and replace a couple of rod ends in the steering and track bar. Tomorrow the new skins get worked on.

Still have to apply all the new stickers when the skins get done, and replace all the bead lock bolts, and tighten every bolt on the rig and mark them.

Getting there........

Ba-Riedo
February 14th, 2009, 00:23
:D :D :D

Many thanks to Masterpull, and the others who given to support the team. We feel responsible to work our butts off to make you all proud.

:repair: :repair: :repair:

:cheers:

:guitar: Let us know how these lines work out for you.

Richard, we'll have to figure out a time for me to get some publicity shots for them.

-----Matt-----

We are planning to take pics of the cars and team on Tuesday. Before all the new body panels get thrashed.:doh:

Pictures or videos would be great! Try not to let Goatman throw a rock at Matt while he is filming this time though.:laugh:

-Alex

OlMan
February 14th, 2009, 08:45
We are planning to take pics of the cars and team on Tuesday. Before all the new body panels get thrashed.:doh:

Does that mean that Richard cannot go wheeling on Monday?

Goatman
February 14th, 2009, 08:52
Does that mean that Richard cannot go wheeling on Monday?

I'll be keeping to the desert sections. :D

OlMan
February 14th, 2009, 16:58
I'll be keeping to the desert sections. :D

Shucks, then I can't keep up. Guess I will have to look for someone slower to play with.

IXNAYXJ
February 14th, 2009, 18:09
Try not to let Goatman throw a rock at Matt while he is filming this time though.:laugh:That was Dean Bulloch. Richard was hiding behind me. :D

-----Matt-----

OlMan
February 15th, 2009, 08:20
Matt, HI. Rich in the FToy. Look forward to seeing you out there. We sure got a lot of fun comments on the Christmas card picture you took of us. Fun stuff.

IXNAYXJ
February 15th, 2009, 22:07
Matt, HI. Rich in the FToy. Look forward to seeing you out there. We sure got a lot of fun comments on the Christmas card picture you took of us. Fun stuff.Ah, hey buddy! Look forward to seeing you next week!

-----Matt-----

Goatman
February 15th, 2009, 22:09
:guitar: Let us know how these lines work out for you.

-Alex


I've been running MasterPull winch lines on both the XJ and the buggy for a long time. When I switched from cable to synthetic line I researched all of the synthetic winch lines, and I thought Masterpull was the best winch line out there. I have been totally satisfied with my Masterpull winch lines, and am very happy to have them onboard as a sponsor.

Goatman
February 19th, 2009, 14:56
Well, it's getting close now. All of the work that's getting done to the buggy has been done. New skins are on, sponsor stickers are all on, paint has been touched up, new ball joints, rebuilt CTM's, etc, etc.

I need to change the oil, shop for a few misc items, and start to pack all the gear and supplies for a race and a week in the desert. I'll try to get some pics up tomorrow.

cal
February 19th, 2009, 14:58
Good!

Once this is over, I have another (much less expensive) race in mind for us.

=)

ccflexj
February 19th, 2009, 18:14
Looking forward to see you passing Checkpoint 6 (I'll be working it)!

Great work as usual.

David Taylor
February 19th, 2009, 21:19
I'm just about done.
http://davidgtaylor.smugmug.com/photos/477061143_phkob-XL.jpg

djblade311
February 21st, 2009, 21:32
dont forget to load those coolers! :D See you there!