Those pecker heads passed it...

[RichP]

This outright sucks, man, we are in for it now, dam those DC MAGGOTS.

[cpolish24]

x2

Thats an understatment!!

Bas-terds!!

[muduck18]

This outright sucks, man, we are in for it now, dam those DC MAGGOTS.

X3:banghead:

[Mudderoy]

Oh come on you knew they were going to.

[XJEEPER]

Politics has become the largest business in the USA........we now have a Socialized housing program. The Marxists are doing a jig right now......

It's not enough that the bill was not needed, as written, but they had to bribe the previous NAY voting members to get enough YEA's to pass.

We the People better follow thru with the threat of firing these moral-less, greedy, bribe-taking sellout SOB's when they come up for re-election.

Here's how the House voted....

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iE1r_DuYH2j4rBy8JqBaVQ40MiOQD93J6A400

[muduck18]

Well I just sent emails to both my congressmen and my senator. I will not be voting for either of them again on principal they don't represent me, or my community any more... and I am bitter!!!

[Darky]

Hehe, you said pecker heads. :D


But yeah, I don't want to finance bad business practices.

[Jester99]

Hopefully this will be a wake up call to most Americans as to who really is in charge. Public opinion is obsolete. It doesn't matter if your Republican, Democrat or in the middle. The greedy just got what they wanted...more money and more power. It all came from us too and unfortunately 90% of the population doesn't even realize it. This plan will not work either, just wait and see. 3 months from now the whole thing will finally collapse in. Collapse is inevitable, its part of the cycle, but most people don't want to believe that there living in this time. What goes up must come down...

[goodburbon]

Every one of those bastards that changed their votes on the same damn bill because they got pork should be drug into the street and shot.

[WB9YZU]

This is just the same ol' Savings & Loan bailout redux.

We played this game once already, and Wall street has obviously gotten into the habit of having the Fed bail their sorry asses out when the defecate hits the rotary oscillator.

I think the general consensus is that though this really rubs our fur the wrong way, this stuff is finance 101 for Christ's sake, it looks to be the best choice to make. I would bet that even stiffer regulation of the financial sector is coming their way.

This lending fiasco will affect everyone, People and Governments. These lending practices artificially raised housing values, which affect how much a municipality/ County/ State Government can raise in Taxes. I also heard that innocents, like renters are also being affected when the Duplex or Apartment building they are/were renters in went into foreclosure. In big cities, that's a problem.

[IndyXJ]

...but the New World Order is knocking down the door...
Megadeth-United Abominations album

[IndyXJ]

I might add, I have never seen so much support AGAINST this from all walks of life and sides of the so called political aisles.
When they start suggesting we need a "North America" type currency, ala the Euro...then all bets are off.

[Jester99]

Every one of those bastards that changed their votes on the same damn bill because they got pork should be drug into the street and shot.

Just wait my friend, its just around the corner...

[Smittty9785]

Hehe, you said pecker heads. :D


But yeah, I don't want to finance bad business practices.

he could have said UNIT!

[Jester99]

Your government failed you today.

[NWPhotog]

This outright sucks, man, we are in for it now, dam those DC MAGGOTS.

Exactly what are you so upset at? We are going to buy assets at .30 on the dollar that will likely pay out .50 or .60 cents on the dollar plus interest. If they don't fully pay back the money paid for them a securities purchase tax will be instituted that will pay back all money spent. By buying these loans up we will free up money so hat business won't have to fire or lay off massive numbers of people sending the country into a severe depression. Hell this may be the one thing Congress has gotten right in decades!

[RichP]

Exactly what are you so upset at? We are going to buy assets at .30 on the dollar that will likely pay out .50 or .60 cents on the dollar plus interest. If they don't fully pay back the money paid for them a securities purchase tax will be instituted that will pay back all money spent. By buying these loans up we will free up money so hat business won't have to fire or lay off massive numbers of people sending the country into a severe depression. Hell this may be the one thing Congress has gotten right in decades!
So, they are going to buy homes that are mortgaged out for 250,000, that cost 50,000 new 10 years ago, were inflated. Good deal, we have 8200 of them in my county alone up here, 5000 of them foreclosures, guess everybody who lost the jobs are suddenly and magically going to get new ones to afford it.
Unless the government stops the jobs moving overseas, brings back manufacturing and jobs we're screwed.
I hear China is opening some new factories, guess they will have to round up a few hundred thousand more new dissidents and political prisoners to start producing goods in them.

[WB9YZU]

So, they are going to buy homes that are mortgaged out for 250,000, that cost 50,000 new 10 years ago, were inflated. Good deal, we have 8200 of them in my county alone up here, 5000 of them foreclosures, guess everybody who lost the jobs are suddenly and magically going to get new ones to afford it.
Unless the government stops the jobs moving overseas, brings back manufacturing and jobs we're screwed.
I hear China is opening some new factories, guess they will have to round up a few hundred thousand more new dissidents and political prisoners to start producing goods in them.

I hear ya Rich, but exactly what can Congress do about it? It seems our system needs these crashes to readjust values back to reality.

There is a entire enighborhood in Milwaukee that was hard hit. These people had $30K homes 5 years ago that were paid for and they unwisely remortgaged them because they needed money. Milwaukee wants to blame the lenders, but the fact is that Milwaukee's assessor reassed these home after they were remortgaged at 2-3X their value, which encouraged the practice. These people have jobs, not well paying ones, so they couldn't deal with the new values and the loan. Now these homes are being forclosed on and no one wants them because they are not worth their assesment value.

Investors and large corporations go where there is money to be made. That new frontier is China and Asia in general, where workers get, by American standards, substandard wages for their work. The effect is called the "Chineese Tsunami" and if you think we are the only country suffering job loss due to factories closing and moving to China, you would be mistaken.

What do you expect Congress to do about the "Chineese Tsunami" that is not only our problem, but is a Global problem? I believe the problem is not Congress, or the Chineese, but is the persuit of money without a concience. If those sitting on the board of Corporations actually gave a damn abut who they employ and the communities they live in, they would keep their factories here even if it meant only making a 10% profit instead of a 45% profit.

[RichP]

What do you expect Congress to do about the "Chineese Tsunami" that is not only our problem, but is a Global problem? I believe the problem is not Congress, or the Chineese, but is the persuit of money without a concience. If those sitting on the board of Corporations actually gave a damn abut who they employ and the communities they live in, they would keep their factories here even if it meant only making a 10% profit instead of a 45% profit.

First some protective legislation, do not allow new technological advances to be exported for 10 years, that would stop companies like Intel from building production facilities in China. Currently they use American innovation then ship it overseas then bring it back. In that case the corporation should be whacked with a killer tax.
Second, start funding startup competition, give a boost to AMD and other processor companies and stop buying Intel, especially in Govt hardware, I have not bought or done an intel production run in quite a while.
I personally have no problem keeping a 3rd world country a 3rd world country when it drags me down to their level of living. I have no problem giving a 3rd world country a hand up but not to compete with me, when was the last time you ever saw GM give Ford their bleeding edge technology so they could compete better. To do so is just plain stupid.

[NWPhotog]

So, they are going to buy homes that are mortgaged out for 250,000, that cost 50,000 new 10 years ago, were inflated. Good deal, we have 8200 of them in my county alone up here, 5000 of them foreclosures, guess everybody who lost the jobs are suddenly and magically going to get new ones to afford it.
Unless the government stops the jobs moving overseas, brings back manufacturing and jobs we're screwed.
I hear China is opening some new factories, guess they will have to round up a few hundred thousand more new dissidents and political prisoners to start producing goods in them.

They will be buying groups of mortgages. Many will be houses that are worth more than the mortgage. Some will be like you describe where they'll generate $100k on a $250k mortgage. Overall we are likely to make more than the total cost of the mortgages because they are selling at .30 on the dollar. If not the Bill requires a securities purchase tax to make up the difference. With Banks able to make regular loans we can potentially save a lot of job cuts. As to keeping low paying manufacturing jobs from going overseas, no one can do that. No matter the rhetoric from Dems or others companies will produce things where the cost is lowest. Do I want to work for $2 a day as some foreign workers will? Hell no!

[NWPhotog]

First some protective legislation, do not allow new technological advances to be exported for 10 years, that would stop companies like Intel from building production facilities in China. Currently they use American innovation then ship it overseas then bring it back. In that case the corporation should be whacked with a killer tax.

So the companies just move out of the US and sell to other 2/3s of the world. Do you realize how soon the Chinese economy will dwarf the US economy? Do you really want to be an isolationist country as that happens?!


Second, start funding startup competition, give a boost to AMD and other processor companies and stop buying Intel, especially in Govt hardware, I have not bought or done an intel production run in quite a while.

Hmm govt funding private corporations and playing favorites? I can't see that doing anything other than wasting a ton of money.



I personally have no problem keeping a 3rd world country a 3rd world country when it drags me down to their level of living. I have no problem giving a 3rd world country a hand up but not to compete with me, when was the last time you ever saw GM give Ford their bleeding edge technology so they could compete better. To do so is just plain stupid.

Personally I am not worried about the third world country as much as I am about the US. When people can't see things as they truly are they have little hope imo.

[NWPhotog]

PS You do realize virtually all motherboards (and many other products) are designed AND manufactured overseas? It is 20 years too late to be isolationist and even then I doubt it would have been a winning strategy.

[NWPhotog]

What do you expect Congress to do about the "Chineese Tsunami" that is not only our problem, but is a Global problem? I believe the problem is not Congress, or the Chineese, but is the persuit of money without a concience. If those sitting on the board of Corporations actually gave a damn abut who they employ and the communities they live in, they would keep their factories here even if it meant only making a 10% profit instead of a 45% profit.

To me the big issue is time frame vs corporations trying to maximize profits. When you focus on 6 months it is easy to lose industries the way we lost automobile manufacturing. Corporations are always going to focus on money that is their job but to worry about short term profits while losing the war is the issue.

[Ecomike]

First some protective legislation, do not allow new technological advances to be exported for 10 years, that would stop companies like Intel from building production facilities in China. Currently they use American innovation then ship it overseas then bring it back. In that case the corporation should be whacked with a killer tax.

Funny you should mention this, that is actually in Obama's platform.

While I like the sound of that idea in principal, it must be done with great care, as that sort of protectionism was one of the nails in the economic coffin that made the Great Depression far worse than it might have otherwise been.

[Ecomike]

Those pecker heads, may have just saved us from another great depression.

Right now the world markets need, needed confidence more than anything else. With out confidence no amount of federal funds would, will save us.

Here is transcript of the Charlie Rose interview with Warren Buffet a few days ago. Well worth reading, no mater what side your on.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/26982338/page/2/

"Warren Buffett:
Yeah. When 40 billion of treasury bills are sold like they were last week, seven day treasury bills, at a yield of 1/20th of one percent, that means the whole country is basically at the point virtually, or a lot of the country is at the point of putting the money under the mattress. One twentieth of one percent away from where it's betting to put it under the mattress. You don't want 300 million Americans putting their money under the mattress. This economy doesn't work well without the lubrication of credit and trust. And that's been lost. It's a huge problem. What you have is you have the major institutions of the world all wanting to deleverage. They want to take down their assets and liabilities. What seemed so easy to borrow against a year ago now looks like rat poison to them. So they're trying to deleverage. There is only one institution in the world that can leverage up in a way that's all a countervailing force to that, and that's the United States Treasury."


"YD Co. (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=1211%3AHK), China's biggest maker of rechargeable batteries, surged 24 percent to HK$15.90 in Hong Kong and subsidiary BYD Electronic (International) Co. (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=285%3AHK) jumped 76 percent to HK$4.50. BYD has gained 89 percent this week after the company attracted a HK$1.8 billion ($232 million) investment from Buffett's MidAmerican Energy Holdings Co. BYD Electronic has more than doubled."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=atts6gZosUeU&refer=asia
Warren compares this Pearl harbor!

"Warren Buffett:
If you were at Lehman, the same thing happened. If you were at AIG, the shareholders are getting creamed on these things. And those shareholders are not just a bunch of big shots in Wall Street. Those are pension funds, and those are investors all over the country. I wouldn't worry too much about that. Justice won't be perfect on it. I mean, you may be very mad at some guy that walked away with a huge golden parachute, but that really isn't the important thing. I mean, if Pearl Harbor came along, you could have said the planning was wrong by the military ahead of time or maybe the battleships shouldn't have all been in the harbor and all that kind of thing.

Charlie Rose:
Right.


Warren Buffett:
It doesn't make any difference.


Charlie Rose:
It's Pearl Harbor. [unintelligible]


Warren Buffett:
I mean, the job is Pearl Harbor. And you better not spends weeks and weeks and weeks trying to assign blame or deciding on a complete plan for fighting the whole war, you know, and letting a committee decide where the battleships should go and all of that. You better spring into action with the best people you have.


Charlie Rose:
You have never seen anything like this in your life.


Warren Buffett:
No, I haven't.


Charlie Rose:
There are those who argue that we are headed for a recession, you know? And they look at depression as the great fear.


Warren Buffett:
Sure.


Charlie Rose:
Is that a possibility if this plan doesn't work?


Warren Buffett:
Yeah, it's a possibility, yeah. We have about 6.1 percent unemployment now. I mean, we've been in a recession, by any common sense definition, because if you look at the American public, they've got 20 billion -- 20 trillion, I should say, worth of residential homes. They've got 20 trillion worth of stocks, very roughly. Those are the two big assets of American families. They are both down dramatically for different families. But 95 percent of the people at least are worse off in terms of their residential wealth plus stock wealth from a year ago or two years ago. That is bleeding into the real economy. I mean, that's bleeding into auto sales and jewelry sales and furniture sales and all that. But that wave is just starting to hit. And if the paralysis we have in the credit markets, if every company continues to feel all we want to do is get our balance sheet down, sell assets, you know, it's just the start of what can happen. Unemployment's going to go up under any circumstances. I mean, it's the 6.1 is going to go higher. But whether it goes and quits at 7 or whether it quits as 10 or 11 or 12 depends on, among other things, the wisdom of Congress, and then the wisdom of, in terms of carrying out the plan that Congress authorizes.


Charlie Rose:
Would you say that this plan which you have argued very strongly the Senate ought to pass and the House ought to pass is simply the plan that we have, and I don't have a better idea. But it's essential for the confidence of the nation and the system?


Warren Buffett:
Yeah. I just worry about whether it's enough. But I think it is --


Charlie Rose:
Enough what?


Warren Buffett:
Every day that goes by, I mean, if you don't react to Pearl Harbor for a week or two weeks or three weeks, you're behind in the war that you otherwise would have fought. But it's very important that the determination of the US Congress to do what is is needed be made evident this week and by the actions of most of the members. I mean, you're not going to get total assent.


Charlie Rose:
What makes you confident that this plan will work? I mean --


Warren Buffett:
Well, I think you've got -- I don't think you can have a better secretary of the Treasury than Hank Paulson, you know. I mean, he is in there at the wrong time, probably shouldn’t have taken the job. He’s a friend of mine. But he knows markets, he knows corporations’ work, he knows money, and he’s got the interests of the country at heart. And so, you’ve got the right -- you’ve got a wonderful person with Sheila Bair, most of the viewers have never heard of Sheila Bair. Sheila Bair, in the last two weeks, has taken eight percent of the deposits in the United States and seamlessly moved those over to sound institutions which in turn have gotten more capital, ended up, it’s been a magnificent job. Eight percent of the deposits in the United States, 10s of millions of depositors. And nobody’s ever heard of her. She’ll never get a golden parachute or any severance pay or anything. She’s done a great job. We’ve got some great public servants. We have I think the right people in there to get the job done,"

[Ecomike]

One More real good comment by Warren Buffet!!
"Charlie Rose:And those more tools might be in addition to what’s in this plan?
Warren Buffett:
Well, they need plenty of money and they really need plenty of flexibility to carry out this plan. They also need in my view to very much tie it to market prices. I have said, Charlie, that the 700 billion, if they buy mortgage-related securities or mortgages themselves at current market prices, they’re going to make money over time because the United States government has staying power and it has a low cost of borrowing. And if I could take one percent of that 700 billion pot and take the gain or loss from it and be their partner, and they would buy the stuff at market, I'd make a lot of money. It’s -- I mean you have hedge funds and people like that buying these assets to yield 15 or 20 percent, I mean, that’s the buyer for these people that are trying to unload them. The U.S. Treasury has got borrowing costs like nobody else has. They can borrow basically unlimited amounts. They can stay there for years and years. These assets will be worth more money over time. So when Merrill Lynch sells a bunch of mortgage-related assets at 22 cents on the dollar like they did a month or so ago, the buyer goes -- is going to make money, and he’s going to make a lot more money if it happens to be an institution like the U.S. government which has very, very cheap borrowing costs."

[vbrez1]

The main thing is this act is not authorized by the Constitution, this is a rogue Government

[Ecomike]

:doh: What ever, hell it started out as a rouge government when it told Britain to KOA!

Here is the Chinese Electric car Company WB bought 10% of last month.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/26916857/

[WB9YZU]

The main thing is this act is not authorized by the Constitution, this is a rogue Government

Show us proof that it's NOT.

[muduck18]

Show us proof that it's NOT.

how about the fact that calls to the representatives were 3 to 1 against the bill.
The people are supposed to represent us are not representing us.

[goodburbon]

The problem in my eyes is that we are bypassing a natural part of the cycle. The cycle is boom, bust. The bigger the boom, the bigger the bust, Hence the roaring 20's and the great depression.

Our government is trying to short circuit the bust. They tried to short circut a small bust with the first tax rebates. Then again with the economic stimulus package. Now a complete system wide bailout of 700 billion dollars (with an extra 150 BILLION added in to convince those who voted against this very stupid idea because it was the wrong plan) we are short circuiting ( or attempting to ) a complete depression.

What does that mean? it means prices not only stay inflated, they continue to inflate further. I am afraid that the value of our currency is about to plummet and usher in a depression even greater than what we were potentially facing in the first place. You can't have boom without eventual bust. Smaller wave cycles are better, healthier, but after a big growth comes a big contraction, it is the way this economy has always functioned. We have had Tremendous unprecedented growth in the last 20 years and inflation to accompany it. By not allowing a natural contraction and the self righting of a free economy we are setting up a future that has the potential to be more devastating than the combined dust bowl and great depression of the 1930's.

I absolutely detest that this bill created another entire agency with the authority to purchase and then liquidate these assets. Sure, that's all we need, more government.

Mike, reading that interview was like watching a retared monkey try to have sex with a pigeon. It did not make sense. Pearl harbor? I get what he's trying to say, so no need to explain it, but it is still retarded. I respect your opinions and you are a very intelligent man, but if you crave socialism so badly please just move to Finland or Norway....or Cuba.

I will conclude with a simple thought. With freedom comes the freedom to fail.

[WrenchMonkey]

Show us proof that it's NOT.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

ie: If the Constitution doesn't specifically say the feds can do something, then, constitutionally speaking, they can't do it.

'Course, that's one of those amendments that don't really count anymore...

Robert

[WB9YZU]

ie: If the Constitution doesn't specifically say the feds can do something, then, constitutionally speaking, they can't do it.

'Course, that's one of those amendments that don't really count anymore...

Robert

That would be the Bill of Rights you are quoting.

If you look though the Constitution itself, you will have a tough time finding that the Fed does NOT have the ability to regulate money.

Besides, we have been down this road before with the other Bush administration. When the S&Ls went belly up due to bad lending practices, we bailed them out or bought them up just like we are doing with Banks and the Resolution Trust Corporation was formed.

[Steve_Moore]

The problem in my eyes is that we are bypassing a natural part of the cycle. The cycle is boom, bust. The bigger the boom, the bigger the bust, Hence the roaring 20's and the great depression.

Our government is trying to short circuit the bust. They tried to short circut a small bust with the first tax rebates. Then again with the economic stimulus package. Now a complete system wide bailout of 700 billion dollars (with an extra 150 BILLION added in to convince those who voted against this very stupid idea because it was the wrong plan) we are short circuiting ( or attempting to ) a complete depression.

What does that mean? it means prices not only stay inflated, they continue to inflate further. I am afraid that the value of our currency is about to plummet and usher in a depression even greater than what we were potentially facing in the first place. You can't have boom without eventual bust. Smaller wave cycles are better, healthier, but after a big growth comes a big contraction, it is the way this economy has always functioned. We have had Tremendous unprecedented growth in the last 20 years and inflation to accompany it. By not allowing a natural contraction and the self righting of a free economy we are setting up a future that has the potential to be more devastating than the combined dust bowl and great depression of the 1930's.

I absolutely detest that this bill created another entire agency with the authority to purchase and then liquidate these assets. Sure, that's all we need, more government.

Mike, reading that interview was like watching a retared monkey try to have sex with a pigeon. It did not make sense. Pearl harbor? I get what he's trying to say, so no need to explain it, but it is still retarded. I respect your opinions and you are a very intelligent man, but if you crave socialism so badly please just move to Finland or Norway....or Cuba.

I will conclude with a simple thought. With freedom comes the freedom to fail.
I couldn't agree more.

[Ecomike]

That would be the Bill of Rights you are quoting.

If you look though the Constitution itself, you will have a tough time finding that the Fed does NOT have the ability to regulate money.

Besides, we have been down this road before with the other Bush administration. When the S&Ls went belly up due to bad lending practices, we bailed them out or bought them up just like we are doing with Banks and the Resolution Trust Corporation was formed.

Back in the late 80's RTC took over First Chicago which had 2 years earlier taken over First City National of Texas, the biggest bank failure and bail out at the time by the FDIC. The FDIC helped First Chicago buy First City buy taking the bad loans First City had. I got stuck with shares of something called collecting bank NA durring the take over, which has been worthless the last 20 years.

First city lost it's ass with oil industry loans based on $58 oil, that had dropped to near $10 in 1980-81. First Chicago got burned on Junk Bond unfriendly take over loans to Wall Street around 1986-87.

Both the result of poor Bank regulation and overzealous bank loans. Seems we did not learn anything from that period. The regulations just got weaker and the bail outs bigger, and the banks bigger.

[Ecomike]

The problem in my eyes is that we are bypassing a natural part of the cycle. The cycle is boom, bust. The bigger the boom, the bigger the bust, Hence the roaring 20's and the great depression.

Our government is trying to short circuit the bust. They tried to short circut a small bust with the first tax rebates. Then again with the economic stimulus package. Now a complete system wide bailout of 700 billion dollars (with an extra 150 BILLION added in to convince those who voted against this very stupid idea because it was the wrong plan) we are short circuiting ( or attempting to ) a complete depression.

What does that mean? it means prices not only stay inflated, they continue to inflate further. I am afraid that the value of our currency is about to plummet and usher in a depression even greater than what we were potentially facing in the first place. You can't have boom without eventual bust. Smaller wave cycles are better, healthier, but after a big growth comes a big contraction, it is the way this economy has always functioned. We have had Tremendous unprecedented growth in the last 20 years and inflation to accompany it. By not allowing a natural contraction and the self righting of a free economy we are setting up a future that has the potential to be more devastating than the combined dust bowl and great depression of the 1930's.

I absolutely detest that this bill created another entire agency with the authority to purchase and then liquidate these assets. Sure, that's all we need, more government.

Mike, reading that interview was like watching a retared monkey try to have sex with a pigeon. It did not make sense. Pearl harbor? I get what he's trying to say, so no need to explain it, but it is still retarded. I respect your opinions and you are a very intelligent man, but if you crave socialism so badly please just move to Finland or Norway....or Cuba.

I will conclude with a simple thought. With freedom comes the freedom to fail.

Goodburbon,

Not to worry, you will get and see the massive bust, correction cycle you seem to crave or favor, or seem to think is needed, in fact it is already well underway. Nothing will stop that.

What some of us are trying to do is insure that there is a USA, a financial system and economy and a world economy left at the end of the cycle that can be salvaged.

There is, and was nothing pleasant, or useful about the Great Depression or similar bust cycles. They should be avoided at all costs.

I can't think of any reason anyone would want or believe that a Great Depression is a needed or desirable part of a natural economic cycle.

But, quite frankly, I suspect you just don't realise how close to something worse than the Great Depression we are already, today! I won't be surprised to see 10% unemployment with in 12 months, no matter what anyone does.

Today, we (individuals) are even less self sufficient than we as a people were during the last Great Depression, so the effects would be even more devastating and depressing than the last one.

[XJEEPER]

Goodburbon,

Not to worry, you will get and see the massive bust, correction cycle you seem to crave or favor, or seem to think is needed, in fact it is already well underway. Nothing will stop that.

What some of us are trying to do is insure that there is a USA, a financial system and economy and a world economy left at the end of the cycle that can be salvaged.

There is, and was nothing pleasant, or useful about the Great Depression or similar bust cycles. They should be avoided at all costs.

I can't think of any reason anyone would want or believe that a Great Depression is a needed or desirable part of a natural economic cycle.

But, quite frankly, I suspect you just don't realise how close to something worse than the Great Depression we are already, today! I won't be surprised to see 10% unemployment with in 12 months, no matter what anyone does.

Today, we (individuals) are even less self sufficient than we as a people were during the last Great Depression, so the effects would be even more devastating and depressing than the last one.

You've left out one important deal Mike, our Freedom to choose. We the People overwhelmingly opposed this bill.......but those we've elected to act in our behalf, have ignored our requests.

Consequences correct conduct.

Our elected helped create the problem, have profitted both financially and politically from exploitation of a flawed plan and now they've voted themselves a shift of liability to the shoulders of us, our children and our grandchildren. Just like the New Deal of the Depression era, all of the social programs created to initially help our country, have become a burden and a drain on the % of society that pays for them. They have been exploited and plundered from within. (see Social Security=Ponzi scheme) These plans should have been ended years ago, but the government sees them as a revenue stream that can never be allowed to end. They want us to depend on them, it's a lock.

The plan that made the most sense to the taxpayer was ignored.

Here's an article from March, 2007 that outlines the many financial blunders that Washinton makes at our expense, the inpropriety and outright lying that takes place and the prediction of exactly what we are experiencing today in our financial markets.

http://www.financialsense.com/transcriptions/2007/0310.html

Mike, read Peter Schiff's book, if you don't mind risking the Socialist party kicking you out.


The root of the problem is our government's actions reflects the moral decay of our society, wrong is right, black is white, bad is good. Whether they created it, or we allowed it to happen it matters not. What matters is that we need to stand united, and make a change for the better.

[Ecomike]

You've left out one important deal Mike, our Freedom to choose. We the People overwhelmingly opposed this bill.......but those we've elected to act in our behalf, have ignored our requests.



I am pretty sure we the people changed our minds and the majority told congress to pass the bill, once they understood what was at stake. I do believe the public polls switch in favor of the bill before it was finally passed.

[RichP]

I am pretty sure we the people changed our minds and the majority told congress to pass the bill, once they understood what was at stake.
Not according to the polls I've seen in the aftermath, they are still out there and the numbers are not that different than they were last week.
As far as those billionaires saying we need it, hey, they have millions of dogs in this hunt and they begrudge every dollar they lost and you can bet your bottom dollar they had millions invested and they want it back. The cheapest people I have ever met in my life are multi-millionaires that will fake an emergency or make a trip to the head when it comes time to split the lunch bill.
They all have an agenda and that agenda always has their money as the most important.

[goodburbon]

I am pretty sure we the people changed our minds and the majority told congress to pass the bill, once they understood what was at stake. I do believe the public polls switch in favor of the bill before it was finally passed.

There were better alternatives that were ignored and this plan was rammed down our throats... and in a hurry.

As for the polls they are useless, the American public is fickle and uninformed. The polling is akin to something along these lines.

Someone has a gun at your head, should he

A. pull the trigger?
or B Point it at Mike instead.

Of course they are going to pick B with the absence of a better C. Shove it up his own ass and pull the trigger.

There was a good option that I liked, but congress was so busy trying to OMG DO SOMETHIGN RIGHT NOW, it was ignored in favor of creating another government agency and funding everyones pet projects. They are not looking out for our best interest, they are jerking each other off.

[Ecomike]

"An AP-GfK poll released last week before the House passed the revised bill found Americans divided on whether they supported the bailout."

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jOzxfNn1jhXErEemMbUQlBdl4F5wD93KJ3M01

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/977/the-bad-rap-on-the-bailout-bill

"The most recent polls -- those conducted through Monday night -- show the public is at best divided over the plan. There is little indication of overwhelming public rejection of the bailout proposal. A new Pew Research Center survey conducted Sept. 27-29 found support for the bailout slipping, but still showed a narrow 45%-38% plurality of the public saying that a government plan to invest or commit billions of dollars to secure financial institutions is the right thing to do."

[Ecomike]

There were better alternatives that were ignored and this plan was rammed down our throats... and in a hurry.

There was a good option that I liked,

Which was?

[RichP]

Funny thing about polls, they say whatever the people who paid for them want them to say.

[Ecomike]

Funny thing about polls, they say whatever the people who paid for them want them to say.

While I agree with your point, I am not quite that pesamistic (sp?). I do look at the question asked and who was asked, and any other details on the poll when available, and I look at different polls when I can find them.

[goodburbon]

I thought this plan was a bit better.

"Government as lender: Critics of the administration's plan argue that an alternative could be crafted to minimize the exposure of the government - and taxpayers - to risk. Johnson, the MIT professor, suggested that the government, instead of taking on the bad debt, could offer loans to troubled banks, allowing them to put up their sickened portfolios of mortgage-backed debt as collateral.
This would give the banks access to badly needed cash at attractive interest rates set by the government. But it would not completely let them off the hook for making those bad investments in the first place. Because government money would come in the form of loans, rather than an outright purchase of the risky investments, taxpayers would be offered greater protection. "

I like it because it doesn't create a whole new "bureau of forclosed home sales".

I'm a libertarian, so my favorite plan is to let it sort itself out. Do I want a depression, no. Do I think we're going to see one, yes.

[goodburbon]

http://www.bestmindsinc.com/documents/ium_102yearchart.pdf

The sharper the climb the harder the fall.

[Jester99]

I can tell you as of 2:25 pm this thing is not working. DOW is down 720 pts and there is a global sell off round' the world. Now, if stocks plummeted when the first bailout was proposed, and again even with this supposed "new" bailout being passed, this can only mean one thing...

[goodburbon]

wolverine?

[Jester99]

http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p112/edgecrusher2199/161226-wolverine_400.jpg

[Ecomike]

THis guy is a hard core Republican and he was calling for the bail out (renamed it a stabilization plan) 3 weeks ago.

http://www.frontlinethoughts.com/printarticle.asp?id=mwo092608

[RichP]

I love it, the foundation is cracking, the framing is collapsing so what do they try to fix first, the roof of course. Makes perfect sense. That way the roof will look nice when it hits the ground.

[muduck18]

hastaTHis guy is a hard core Republican and he was calling for the bail out (renamed it a stabilization plan) 3 weeks ago.

http://www.frontlinethoughts.com/printarticle.asp?id=mwo092608


I am not sure that posting the same link 20 times gives it any more credibility...

Unlike Democrats, Republicans are not hard core enough to think that one person is an accurate representation of 'our kind'