XJ Floor Pan Rusted Floors FAQ

[ConnorMann]

XJ Floor Pan Rusted Floors FAQ

Weeks of research and here we are...

Pan Sheet Metal
- Stock sheet metal is 20g.
- 18g to make it easier to weld, the main concern with the thickness is if you are welding it in, the thinner it is the tougher it is to weld
- You can get small 18x18 16 ga squares at places like Lowes or Menards
- Sheet metal screws to hold the panels in place while welding them up
- Sherman Parts out of Michigan. Replacement pans. http://www.shermanparts.com/page.php?c=shop&p=new_products&id=14
-Genuine OEM Front Floor Pan For 1984-01 Jeep Cherokee
http://www.discountjeepparts.com/product_info.php/cPath/3121_3123_3136/products_id/23946
-seal up the seams with roofing tar, spray both the interior and undercarraige with krylon rust elimnator spray.

Rust removal
- Harbor freight 18 ga Gauge Shear or Nibbler, Saws all, aircraft snips
-I would recommend a wire brush on an angle grinder. If you do not have an angle grinder you are going to need one. You can get a cheapo from harbor freight if you just want to get through this project.

Welding

-Hobart 135 and Lincoln 255 the Hobart was much better suited to a good
023 wire and C 25 gas
-Spot and Stitch Welder Set With Rods http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=1172&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=608&iSubCat=613&iProductID=1172

Screwing
- Little sheet metal screws hex head ones with self-drilling tips
- They will draw the metal down nice and tight, with less initial work, and you then have the choice of leaving them in or simply unscrewing them
- Whether or not you expect to be fording any streams. You can also just skip the welding and hold the patches with screws they'll probably last just about as long as welded ones
- Just pick a reasonable size (3/16's) and about 1-1/2" spacing for flat areas closer for curves

Carpet or Not
- CASCADE TG-1(1G) THERMAGUARD HEAT SHIELD COMPOUND 1 GAL for the money it's 100% better than any other dampening product http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=268-232
- Hy-Tech Insulating Paint http://www.hytechsales.com/index.html
-Second Skin http://www.secondskinaudio.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi
- Rhino lining or LineX. LineX is probably the toughest stuff out there.
-I plan to replace carpet with the Vinyl replacement this summer. IMO, it would be just a little easier to clean than Rhino, and easy on the wallet. I haven't decided on adding a sound deadening layer though. God knows I can hear every squeak, creak, and rattle
- Heavy-duty, 1/8" thick, black vinyl, custom molded to fit your vehicle's floor pan $170
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...Browse/s-10101
Carpet and Vinyl flooring http://www.auto-interior.com/jeep1.htm

ConnorManns Completely unskilled mechanics floorboard replacement

Material
Cut rusted areas out with harbor freight 18 gauge metal shears $29.99
Grind rust out harbor freight angle grinder $17.99
Permatex rust treatment $13.00
Sheet metal panels of various sizes from Lowe’s 22ga because did not have 20ga.
Sheet metal self drilling screws #8 x ½, #8 x ¾, #8 x 1, #8x 1 ¼ $10.00
Tube of Roofing Tar $1.77

How
Covered as many flat areas as possible
Bent sheet metal to conform to side of transmission tunnel,
I could not have done this with 16 ga
Overlapped sheet metal where possible
Put down thick bead of roofing tar from caulk gun
Note to self: make sure all pieces fit before applying roofing tar
Screwed all pieces down
Painted inside and out with Rustoleum
Sprayed 3m undercoating under XJ

Perfect Floorboard Treatment
Nothing to absorb water…will dry quickly
1. Por -15 or other rust treatment
2. Bedliner paint or rustoleum paint to seal floor
3. Refectix insulation from lowes or home depot (call ahead)
Does not absorb water
Heat and sound protection
Velcro to floor
3M Super 77 Spray Adhesive as primer then paint if wanted
4. Vinyl liner in place of carpet
5. Rubber driver and passenger floor mats

Good Luck and hope this helps!

ConnorMann

[ConnorMann]

Forgot to add:

Air Bake Cookie sheets attached under XJ between Cat/Muffler and floor. Stops the heat from rising into the cab.
http://www.wearever.com/bakeware/wearever/airbake.htm

ConnorMann

[ConnorMann]

Just took delivery of the Sherman full floor pan for the passenger side. $143 delivered to my door (chicago). Very thick, heavy duty metal I'd say maybe 18 gauge or thicker, very impressed looks just like OEM.

I painted the bottom with rustoleum then a couple of coats of 3m rubberized underproofing. Painting the top with rustoluem then screwing it down. Putting reflectix insulaton down then the vinyl carpet replacement from JC Whitney and I will be done. Should last a long time.

Connor

[90xj06]

i used role of sheet metal, rivets and roofing tar.

[1985xjlaredo]

I am about to get into an endevor like this any pics?

[dizzymac]

the Sherman pans are good but you can buy an entire(both sides an tranny hump) OEM front pan from Amazon.com for $158 delivered.It is the same pan discount jeep has, in fact it comes from them, just a lower S&H for Amazon.
I would use something other than Rustoleum. My rockers were painted on the inside with it and Zero Rust on the outside. I just removed them, insides were total rust while the outers were in great shape.

[87manche]

Forgot to add:

Air Bake Cookie sheets attached under XJ between Cat/Muffler and floor. Stops the heat from rising into the cab.
http://www.wearever.com/bakeware/wearever/airbake.htm

ConnorMann
that's brilliant

[93_xj]

SWEET man this is a great help

im doing mine now.

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/6758/hpim0886mediumsmalllo1.jpg

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/7334/hpim0887mediumsmalllt1.jpg

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/7687/floor1smallaq2.jpg

I went out and bought 2 4'x8' sheets of sheet metal, at 64 dollars per piece. Designed floor templates using cardboard. I cut them out and laid it ontop of the metal and traced around it and cut the peices to fit. Then we got it in the jeep and shaped and made some relief cuts, shaped it to the contour of the tranny tunnel, drilled holes for the seat bolts and drain hole. Welded it up and its going to be getting herculined soon. If i had to go back and do it again, I would buy the next thinner metal, 18 guage. 16 is really tough and hard to bend. We had to make a 90 Degree right angle bend and we ened up having to heat the metal to 700 degrees and made a home-made break to bend it.

[1985xjlaredo]

Where did you have to make this 90 degree bend at? Hey dizzymac do you have a link for the floor pan from amazon?

[93_xj]

Where did you have to make this 90 degree bend at? Hey dizzymac do you have a link for the floor pan from amazon?

left side of picture, where the floor goes up the door. isnt an exact 90 degree but it does the job.

[Rocketman]

The Amazon pans, which were actually RHD models but still work fine in LHD XJ's are sold out.

[rocklandxjer]

holy crap i thought i had it bad.....

im doin this this week/next week
i was wondering what guage was good.

thanks looks like ill be headin to lowes tommorow.

salt belt suk$ doesnt it...

[93_xj]

i bought 16 guage and unless you have a plasma cutter and a sheetmetal break, i suggest getting the next thinner metal, 18 guage?

it will be easier to bend and shape and cut.

[dizzymac]

Glad I bought two of them while they were on sale.

[1985xjlaredo]

left side of picture, where the floor goes up the door. isnt an exact 90 degree but it does the job.
Ok I see it there now Im a dummy lol. Why did you run the metal up the door jam? Is it easier to do it this way? I just went out and bought 18 and 20 guage metal. 18 for the floor and the 20 for and piecing in that i might have to do. I cant wait to gert the floor done and get the Bondo brand of line-X down Its going to be so nice when I'm done!:cool: :attom:

[93_xj]

We ran it up the door because there was no metal left to the floor to weld to , so we welded to the side of the door thing

[1985xjlaredo]

do you think that i could use JB Weld to weld it in? I have a little more metal left than you did. What are your plans for the floor covering,
Mine were to do sheet metal and jb weld, then Use a sheet metal roofing tar to seal the seams from the top and bottom. Then i was going to coat the thing with insulation/sealer and finish with a caot of bondo bed liner. I am doing the whole interior and dont want the carpet back in it. And what about the drain plug? Both of mine are gone, so I was thinking of those Lebaron ports that people have been putting in there hoods? What do you think 93_xj?

[93_xj]

After the floors are in, we were going to seal all the seams, never really though about using roofing tar but that sounds like a good idea. After its all sealed up, i was gonna use herculiner and line the hole interior. For the drain plugs, Im gonna find the lowest points for front and back and drill holes in the floor and install a marine drain plug that they use on boats. I am gonna get some catch-all floor matts to finish it all up. I dont plan on putting carpet in at all because it will just get ruined during a water crossing.

[1985xjlaredo]

Yea Im also a no go on the carpet. That was the reason I wanted to do the floor liner in the first place. I would clean the dam dash and then a day later it would be dusty with my prange carpet yuk! I pulled the rear carpet out and not too much rust! Ill put up some pics here in a few hours for ya all!

[1985xjlaredo]

NAXJA Ok here are the pics of what I'm getting into.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2414000-2414999/2414441_17_full.gifhttp://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2414000-2414999/2414441_14_full.gifThat is the only hole in the floor besides the one that is under the rear trim piece.
I wish I could figure out why Jeep put so many dam drain holes into a vechile that has carpet? Every where I have a drain plug I have rust around it. And the plugs are almost impossible to remove unless I punch them out.
And Does anyone know what these plates are for? They look really bad from what I can tell and any Idea on where to get some replacements?http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/2/web/2414000-2414999/2414441_15_full.gif
They really dont seem to be doing much but I also havent taken out the rear seat?
Well hope I can get some feed back on this. THX:badpc: :geek:

[WheelinKy]

I've got the same problem with my 94, I'm thinking of hacking the whole backend off and replacing it with an MJ. Give it the "SUT" look.

[ConnorMann]

Just finishing the passenger side, had to cut from the rear seat forward. The sherman pan dropped right in, had to cut out holes for the seat screws, no problem, with a angle grinder and cutting wheel. Will post pics soon.

[ConnorMann]

Forgot to add I used permatex high heat gasget goop (500 degrees) in the tube to seal the pan to the old sheet metal. I was concerned that the roofing tar I used on the other side would ignite! Also put the air bake cookie sheet (heat shield) above the cat to reduce the heat. Screwed it to the seat brace and the frame with bolts using nuts as spacers. There ended up being about a 1/4 inch space between the sheet and the Xj and 1/2 inch space above the cat.

[1985xjlaredo]

How do I Remove the 2wd-4wd selector switch? The little plastic knob wont come off and I dont want to destroy it in the process! HELP!!!!!!!

[1985xjlaredo]

ok im a dummy nevermind just gotta be mean to it lol Man the disgusting things that fall underneath the console YUK :puke:

[dizzymac]

I'm noticing that some want to use JB Weld,panel adhesive, screws or rivets etc. Remember this is a unibody, when the floor pan flexes it needs to be secured in a manner that will not allow it to seperate from the "frame rails". The best way to do this is by welding the pan(s) back in place. I know this is a PITA but for safety and longevity it needs to be done.
The screws and rivet are subject to "sheer factor" which can destroy their capability of being a secure fastener.
Panel adhesive can do the job but to get an adhesive that is for structural use will be expensive and do you really want to trust it to hold your XJ together.
Spot or plug welding the pan(s) back in REALLY should be the only method to use. Small welders that will do the job readily available and cheap.

[1985xjlaredo]

Got all the carpet out and grinding away now. Doe sthe pan have ot be painted for the herculiner to bond to it?

[dizzymac]

I would paint the floor with something like Zero Rust or POR-15 then use a bed liner, just added protection, you never want to go thru this again so might as well take all the precautions you can.

[1985xjlaredo]

What is por-15? Is it an automotive paint?

[93_xj]

POR-15 = Paint over rust

you can use it for your jeep

[dizzymac]

Zero Rust is a paint over rust product too. I prefer it over POR-15, less toxic. I've had good results with it.

[1985xjlaredo]

Ah OK I don't have much rust left at all. I Grind ed most (95%) of it out today. (Oh and you should use a particle respirator when doing this!!!!!) I was just thinking of using a self etching primer to touch the bare metal that isnt getting welded?

[dizzymac]

I didn't paint over any rust, I got rid of it all...as in no floor at all, all rust along rockers inside and out being cut away and replaced with new sheet metal.
Everything I replaced and all metal below the door sills is being coated with Zero Rust(floor pans,frame rails, etc, inside and out.) and then coated with bedliner.
I never want to do this job again and if it gets to the point where it needs to be done again....well theres a gravel pit behind my house, the resulting explosion should be contained to the pit.....lol

[1985xjlaredo]

lol yea i hear ya so much work goes into thie "little" project well im off to do some more man this sux!

[1985xjlaredo]

Got all my metal down now just need to weld it in place. Should i Just tak the new shet metal to the frame rail and putty the rest or should i try to run a bead down the length of the rail. I dont want to warp anything.

[andrew2516]

Got all my metal down now just need to weld it in place. Should i Just tak the new shet metal to the frame rail and putty the rest or should i try to run a bead down the length of the rail. I dont want to warp anything.

I would just tak so you don't warp the thin sheet metal frame.

[1985xjlaredo]

yea that is what I was thinking. But then I have to wait for the permatex autobody compund to cure for a while before I "Bondo TruckGuard" the floor. Anyone know what guage metal the unibody frame rails are? My micrometer is broke

[dizzymac]

Tach or plug weld...remember all those spot welds you had to cut out...you basically want to try to replicate them.
Don't forget to use seam sealer in all places where water could get in and "stand".
Bedline the hell out of the Int. so that if water gets in you can just "sop" it up. I'm also doing my Ext. underbody.
Boy am I glad my 89' that I just picked up has good floors, I would never do this again, my XJ would beome a smoldering pile of rubble instead...lol

[jeepnuts311]

how are you guys cleaning/prepping the bottom of the XJ? what about the "undercoating"

before welding, are you removing all the fuel lines etc?

is there an easy way to tell from underneath the jeep if your floorboards are rusted? mine looks fine from the bottom...

-Tim

[dizzymac]

I've been sandblasting, actually using BlackBeauty....sand is cheap or free but the Beauty won't kill ya. If blasting get a hood, they are cheap, around $25. After the blasting I have been coating everything with Zero Rust (couple of coats).
I'm not using undercoating, had terrible results with it in the past.OEM works great but doing it aftermarket just doesn't seem to do as good of a job.
I have been using seam sealer, seal every 'lil space you can find and bedliner. I'm using two coats on the pans and any other sheet metal I find and one coat on the "frame" rails.
I removed my fuel tank, it will be one of the last things to go back in. I left the fuel lines attached to the rails, however I am replacing the brake lines while I have easy access to them, along with the exhaust, removed and blasted the diff. and replaced the rear brake's and ALL RR brake hardware.
If you can see the floor rotted from underneath then be prepared for a lot of work,the best thing to do is to pull back the "cancer causing" carpet and take a look.
Good luck with yours, I couldn't imagine having to do pan replacement for a living, I'd have to take "Anger Management" classes every week...lol.

[JeepXJ93]

I'm going to try and tackle this project on my 94 next weekend, i already have the interior gutted, is there anything i should move or remove from the undercarriage? I only have 3 or 4 holes that are about 4" across. I'm confused about what you guys were talking about in regards to welding the entire pans and what not, since i'm only going to need a few peices that are so small, is it ok to put a bead of weld all the way around the patch i make? Also is it ok to overlap the metal and then weld or does it need to be cut to the exact size of the hole? I also dont have access to a welder anymore, is the link to the spot welder at the beginning of this thread going to work for what i need to do? Thanks for any input, again i've never done anything like this before so any additional info will help. Thanks!

[dizzymac]

Sorry about the confusion...I am doing full pan(s) restoration, at this point I have no floor what so ever in my XJ, consider youself lucky that you only have a few holes, I'm glad for you. If I didn't have so much time tied up in this project already I would seriously consider junking the thing. Its more a matter of principal now.
I would still try to weld in your patches if possible. Lay your new material over the old and cut the two together, you now have a perfectly shaped patch. Try to cut your patches so that they are rounded and do not have any right angle corners, less chance of them tearing while flexing.
Just keep spot welding around the edges (both sides,Int/Ext if poss.). Be sure to alternate the welds ex: . . . . then go back and start filling in, alternating again: . . . . . . and so on until you get weld all the way around your patch, trying to run a bead will most likely result in warping and blow-thru.
Don't forget RUST PREVENTION..... take your time here, do the best job you able to, it will save you from coming back next year and doing the job over again.

[JeepXJ93]

sounds good, so that welder in the link at the beginning will work fine it sounds like. Thanks for the info. Glad im able to stop it early. Good luck w/ your project.

[dizzymac]

If your'e just doing a few patches I wouldn't go to the expense of something like the stitch or spot welder.
A small wire fed welder with MIG capability shoud be plenty good enough. You can pick one up for the same price as the Eastwood set up and you'll have an actual welder not just goodies for a welder. If you don't use flux core wire you'll have a lot cleaning up.
I'm using a small Campbell-Hausfeld wire feed welder, not even using the tank for MIG and its doing a good enough job, our Lincoln welder crapped out on us but this thing keeps humming away
You might even think about cutting your patches and then taking it to a body or welding shop, shouldn't cost much ot take long.

[Rocketman]

The Eastwood spot welder works GREAT at doing spot welds of a Mopar floorpan onto the frame rails, regardless what anyone says it would NOT or could NOT do.

SUGGESTION: you have to touch the rod to the pan for about 6 or 7 seconds until you get a nice glow before you raise it and let it arc. If you arc too long after that (about 2 seconds max) you'll burn through. It took about 6 or 7 tries of burning through or not hot enough to get it right for your rig and your welder. After you get the hang of it, it goes damn fast.

TIP: REST it to let it cool well after every 10 or so welds. If not the whole thing gets so hot the ring which hold the "prongs" begins to melt. ALSO do not use too much pressure. THAT will cause it to deform more when soft. Make sure you use a VERY HEAVY weight to keep the replacement pan touching the rails. Let the welds cool very well before removing or moving the weight.

I replaced an entire side and I'm no welder at all (never in my life actually) and it came out great. I used 3M body seam sealer (quart brushable) on the seams inside. Barely brushable, it's more ilke spreading soft bubblegum.

On the bottom, I used 3m rubberized undercoat (on sale at Advanced for $6 a can.) 3 cans did the whole underbody. I have a Flowmaster cat back so I bought the Flowmaster stainless heat baffle for $26, it came with the stainless straps and it works AMAZING at reducing the floor temps to almost nothing.

I had installed Damplifier Pro on the inside on top of the freshly installed and freshly POR-15'd floorpan. I then installed new exacto match pre-molded carpet. ($150 for the entire passenger compartment)

TOTAL of the project was one hell of a lot of sweat and the following out of my wallet.

Entire Mopar floorpan (no longer available) $180
Eastwood spot gun and 10 rods (used 1 and a half) $40 off eBay
Eastwood 110v welder. Again eBay $105 shipped
40 sq ft Damplifier Pro $100
POR-15 Quart (a half pint was enough) and Metal Prep $45
3 cans 3M undercoat $18
1 QT 3M Brushable Seam Sealer $54 (yeah, not cheap but great product)
Harbor Freight Air Nibbler to cut new pan pieces (didn't need rear driver floor or the entire HUMP ) $20
New pre-molded carpet, $135
Flowmaster 50 heat shield $26 (Summit Racing)

Total about $725 or so AND I have the tools still and most of the quart of POR-15, metal prep and about 18 SQ ft of Damplifier Pro left. I also used the nibbler to cut the holes in my hood for my LeBaron vents.

Not cheap, but I just added a whole lot of life to my 93 for that!!!

[dizzymac]

We have the Eastwood Spot and Stitch welder, can't use 'em with our wire feed welder though. You are right, I had heard so many neg. comments about them that we almost didn't buy them, glad we did. They do take some getting used to, especially the stitch welder, my son is pretty good at it but I'd do better with a needle and thread...lol
For the small patches he has I can't see him going to that expense. For a serious "shadetree mech" or small body (thats where ours are right now) shop I think its a good investment.
I can't say I've ever had a prob. with Eastwood products.

[JeepXJ93]

ok, considering i'm completely new to welding, the only question i have now is...it sounds like i need a different welder in order to make the stitch welder work? It wont be able to weld w/out having another welder, im lost. LOL sorry for my newbie questions.

[dizzymac]

Do you have a welder or access to one?

[Rocketman]

You need an ARC welder Not a TIG or MIG wire feed unit.

[jeepnuts311]

after poking thru this thread i got scared about my floorboards, since i have had the interior wet a few times. there were a couple of stained, hard spots in the carpet so i was 'fraid they were rust. i cut thru the inch thick carpet and padding and the carpet was saturated.

i havent ripped all the carpet out yet, but there wasnt rust underneath my pedals, and there was a spot the size of a half dollar over the cat under the passengers feet.

ill rip the rest out tomorrow. ..crosses fingers..

-Tim

[JeepXJ93]

No i dont have a welder, thats why i thought this "stitch welder" was what i needed to weld. I didnt know i need an additional welder, i can probably find someone nearby that will let me borrow theirs, it has to be an arc welder? And once i get this your saying i still need to get the stitch welder??

[1985xjlaredo]

JeepXJ93 ! You will need much more than a weekend to finish this project. Granted I have much more rust from the sounds of it.... But I have been welding for 14 plus years now and I have had numerous problems. I'm Welding with a 90-130 amp mig welder with flux core wire. Wish I would have went with a 75/25 Mix of gas though. If you are going to weld then you MUST Take out anything that will burn on the Top of the floor AND ON THE BOTTOM! My dumb ass burned through the vaccume lines for my np229. You may not have the lines but BECAREFUL! It took me almost 6 hours Just to get the 1: Seats out 2: The Trim including all the brackets for the rear seat and the spare tire. 3: The seat belts out. And the Center console. AND An ARC welder takes a lot of pratice to get right. TAKE US SOME PICS AND WE'LL BE ABLE TO HELP YOU OUT MORE.
My project is going great. I formed my own pans from 18g mild steel. I spot welded the thing \in place and sloowly ran a bead down the "frame" rail. I could only do about 2" at a time with the bead. Well hope to see some pics of your Jeep soon. GOOD LUCK.

[JeepXJ93]

Thanks for the heads up on the lines underneath, i already have the inside completely gutted, seats, belts, carpets, moldings etc etc...soon as i get some pics i'll put them up.

[1985xjlaredo]

cool sounds good how bad are your floors looking now? Im am prepiong to put the liner down!

[1985xjlaredo]

OK I got all of the bed liner down now! I think IM gong to need a second coat though. I found brushing it on to be better cause when I would roll over an area that was already done it seemed to want to pull some of it back up. Kinda like a fish eye effect. Have to wait and see how the first coat looks after it dries. Really thick like tar or something and its kinda hard to get it real even. But I think that gravity will help smooth some of it out a llittle

[JeepXJ93]

I only have a few spots about 5" in diameter, one right under where the spare usually goes, another near the passenger side rear wheel well, and then its just a bunch of spots starting here and there....what kind of bed liner did you go w/?

[1985xjlaredo]

I used the Bondo Brand. it was just the stuff that the auto parts store had on hand. I went to the Bondo website to look for a safty data sheet but I couldn't find one. Oh also I think that I found the build sheet on this AMC/Jeep XJ. It was under the seat belt bolt on the driver side. When I get back to work thursday I will scan it and post it on this thread. Oh and dont weld that spot under the spare unless you remove the Gas Tank!:nosmile: :flame:

[dizzymac]

My gas tank was the first thing to come out. Didn't need to be worrying about putting the XJ in orbit. Makes everything a lot easier to get to.

[1985xjlaredo]

yea i didnt do that I just "cold welded" the plate to the floor came out nice but the plate is a little raised up off of the floor because of the welding epoxy. The tank was full when I started this project and I did all of this with NO HELP AT ALL. And at 5'9" 175LBS I'm not a big enough guy to take it down my self.

[JeepXJ93]

Yea lol the tank was the first thing i thought about, along w/ any kind of rubber insulated lines there may be under there. What is this "cold weld" you used and is it as good as real welding? I'm trying to figure out if there is a way i can do this w/out welding being that my rust spots are so small...and i dont have access to a welder anymore. I really didnt want to pay a garage to weld for me.

[1985xjlaredo]

I used JB Weld its about 6.00$$ for the biggest size of it. Its not as good as real welding but if you just have small holes to patch then it should work fine. Take a hammer and beat around the holes LIGHTLY and see if they grow. You'll also have to figure out a way to apply a little pressure to the patch as the cold weld sets up. I used it around all my welds just to be safe and to seal them up completely. Did you ever get any pics yet?

[JeepXJ93]

yea here they are....i hope the size is ok, i put them into a photobucket acct. so i'll try to just paste the links, let me know if it works, and once you guys take a look, let me know what steps i should take...Thanks again for any input.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/jeepxj93/IMG_0120_3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/jeepxj93/IMG_0121.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/jeepxj93/IMG_0122.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/jeepxj93/IMG_0123.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/jeepxj93/IMG_0124.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/jeepxj93/IMG_0125.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/jeepxj93/IMG_0126.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/jeepxj93/IMG_0127.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/jeepxj93/IMG_0128_5.jpg

[1985xjlaredo]

Ok good pics! Well first if you are going to "weld" them remove the trim!
Ok first thing is first; It looks like you have some mud or dirt in the well behind the rear passenger wheel well get rid of that.
Are you just wnating to fix the rust then put the carpet down? Or are u wanting to herculine the floor?
I kinda need to know that before I can say much more I dont want to send you off in the wrong direction you know!
BTW Where are u from?

[JeepXJ93]

I'm on the coast of CT (Milford) Its about 20 minutes from New Haven if that helps. Anyways, yea i meant to caption that one w/ the dirt in the wheel well, that is b/c down there, there is a whole too. Anyways, no carpet, i'm done w/ that smelly stuff and i'm not going to bother w/ it anymore, i do want to keep the trip though at least, and then herculine or whatever is most cost effective. As for how smooth the floor looks when i'm done, i'm not gonna be picky about that stuff, so if its easier to cut peices and overlap the metal i dont really care if its higher or lower than the rest of the floor, i'll just apply whatever coating i use thicker or thinner in those areas to smooth it out.

[basso4735]

im trying to tell if my floor pans have been replaced, but i cant tell. i have a black xj, but the floor pan on the drivers side(only carpet ive ripped up) is a silver color. is that a patch or what its supposed to look like?

[JeepXJ93]

Hmm not sure about anything else, Maybe someone w/ a black Jeep will chime in but my white jeep has an all white floor.

[glub]

My floors aren't that bad, but I ordered the POR-15 truck bed resto kit (basically just POR-15 with some fibreglass mesh). I por'd the floors from underneath and used mesh over holes like the size of a nickle or more. The mesh gets impregnated and seals it up pretty good.

Has anyone tried this?

I think the kit would work good if you removed the carpet and took the time to do both sides. Could probably save a fairly bad floor and probably less work than cutting/welding.

[dizzymac]

Your floor pans should be the same as your body color, prob. has been patched or maybe its a rust preventaive.

[basso4735]

i was just thinking, arent there heat shields under the carpet?

[Rocketman]

None under my 93. The stock jute padding is a heat shield in part. I put in the Damplifier Pro and besides being much quieter it is much cooler. I did put the stainless Flowmaster heat shield on top of my Flowmaster 50. IT made such a huge difference.

I'm considering pulling down my headliner and putting the Damplifier on the roof. Should quiet up the junk pretty well.

Damn I wish I had taken pictures of my floor pan replacement process to post.

[1985xjlaredo]

I have a black Jeep and the florr was the color of the body. I see the color of your floor JeepXJ93, It looks like some coating. Is the floor flat or gloss finish? ANd all of your pics from you previous post are gone?
I will take some new pics today of what I did. But yes the floor of my XJ "ALL OF IT" was Black
Anyone do this with with a red or blue white? jeep hell any color just different than Black?

[JeepXJ93]

Its deffinatly a glossy finish, it looks like if i were to wash and wax it that it would be just as glossy as the exterior paint. What does that mean?? Aside from that, do you want me to repost the pics, i dont know what happened to em. Pics from your project would be great. Any other advice on what steps i should take to take care of all those small rust spots much appreciated.

[1985xjlaredo]

Sorry I have been busy, but I did just buy my second XJ. I didnt take alot of pic while I was diong it. And the ones I did take were on my phone that bit the dust so I lost almost every one of them. I Can take some of the completed project if you think that would help you. I was wondering if someone had primered the floor and that is why it was a different color than the outside of the XJ. Where are u at on this project now?

[JeepXJ93]

Not much farther, i'm hesitant as to how to seal up the new patches, i bought sheets of 18 and 20 guage...and i cut out the excess rust and grinded the rest away so i basically just need to get those patches welded up somehow....and seeing i dont have a welder i dont know what to do...i didnt want to spend money to pay someone to do it but i guess thats the best way to go right now huh? Let me know if the cold weld will work for something like this instead, otherwise i cant think of any other way around it. What do u think?

[Dr. Dyno]

Those of you, including myself, who've had the front passenger floor pan rust away should wonder why this is happening. Today I found out why. If there's an internal water leak in the AC evaporator (quite common), that water seeps under the carpet and covers the floor pan, slowly converting the steel into brown dust.
The definitive cure is to replace the AC evaporator but that's a bitch of a job 'cause the whole dash has to be removed. A simpler alternative is to repair the floor pan and coat it with a waterproof sealant. If you have only small holes, you could patch them up with fibreglass and treat the surrounding areas with fibreglass resin.

[1985xjlaredo]

Just have a shop weld the patches then go over them with the jb weld to seal them and for an extra measure get some black silicone and and go over the bottom and the top of the patch to seal the metal. Don't for get to rubber coat the bottom for more protection!

And the reason that the floor pans rust out is the Drain plugs they put in the floor. The is about 20 of them all together

[dizzymac]

Have someone weld them in, that way you know its done right. JB weld is a great product but I wouldn't be using it for structural purposes...remember your floor pan is a structural item, not just a place to put your seats.
If you look at the bottom of your carpet you will see the real reason these floor pans rust out. There is a diaper like material under the carpet and it is covered with sheet plastic. The "padding" absorbs moisture as well as a diaper then traps it between the palstic and the floor pan.
My XJ sat for two months ...high and dry... no water in the cab, when we pulled the carpet the water ran out of the padding, it was drenched from all trapped moisture.
Enjoy your XJ, do the job the best you can the first time so you can have a worry free ride.
Good luck.

[JeepXJ93]

Thanks guys, i bought a cheap craftsman angle grinder today b/c it came w/ a 1 year warranty...so i figured what the hell...i have most of the rust spots grinded down, and now i'm left w/ the few holes that i have...is there anything i should do to prep the holes before i have the shop weld in the panels...and should the panels be welded in from the top or undercarraige? I'm assuming top? Thanks for walkin me through this again.

[1985xjlaredo]

Just make sure that there is about a 1/2" of bare metal around the holes. Now that hole that is in the back behind the drivers rear wheel well youll have to drop the tank or just JB weld that one in there The fuel filler line and the tank breather are about 1/2" from the bottom of the floor and that rubber will catch fire instantly! Make sure that you have all the area under the hole free of debries and any hoses or lines. Weld the panels in from the top!
And no Problem withthe help guy

[JeepXJ93]

Just outta curiousity, while i'm still in the process of grinding and cutting out all the rust spots, should i cut out around the drain plugs and replace them w/ solid sheet metal too or leave them in? I dont get the point of them anyways unless you do some serious water crossings. Just seems like they are causing more rust anyways.

[bajacalal]

Got all the carpet out and grinding away now. Doe sthe pan have ot be painted for the herculiner to bond to it?

No, my experience is that it bonds better to bare metal. It seems to not stick well to smooth surfaces like paint unless its roughed up. But, it might stick better to something like primer or POR15.

[dizzymac]

I've used it over Zero Rust with good adhesion. As far as the drain plugs, inspect them realy well for the start of rust, if there is none then you could leave them in. You can get new plugs form Team Cherokee for about $1.50 a piece.
You may want to eliminate a few of them and just leave a couple in case you ever decide to put the hose to the interior for a good cleaning, at least you'll have a way to get the water out without using a shop vac.
I'm not putting the carpet back in so I want a way to give the floor a good cleaning now and then so I'm leaving two plugs.

[JeepXJ93]

Thats a good idea, thanks.

[1985xjlaredo]

yea I only left 2 plugs in also. They just rust out so I would replace them with metal

[ryan2l]

Ok so I am a little confused. Are you cutting out your whole floor or just the rusted through areas before you put down the whole new floor pan. So would this be the right procedure.

1. cut out rusted through spots and grind off surface rust.
2. use por15 or similar product.
3. put down floor pan.

[JeepXJ93]

I'm pretty sure the guys who are actually replacing the floor w/ a whole new complete floor pan cut the entire section out like in the pics posted earlier in this thread...personally b/c i only have 2 or 3 spots that are small holes rusted through, i just bought sheet metal and cut it to size and welded it over the hole. This is a big thread i'm sure someone else will chime in.

[dizzymac]

I'm replacing my entire floor from the firewall to the tailgate, both floor pans. In your case you only have to replace the few spots that rusted through, mine was so rotted there was no sense to try to do spot repairs, this is the second one I have done but by far the worst.
If we come across one this bad again we'll just part it out.

[JeepXJ93]

Question about the stuff in the first post of this thread that paints on for heat resistance. Has anyone left out the carpet and NOT applied this stuff? Its a little pricey for the purpose it serves, am i going to be baked out of my XJ when wheeling in the summer if i dont apply this? Is there anything that will do as good of a job that is a little nicer to the wallet? Thanks

[1985xjlaredo]

I left the bedliner out and just put down a coat of herculiner. I have black floor mats. It was just 97 degrees here in Kansas City about 5 days ago and I drove around the streets for about 45 minutes with out the air and it really wasnt bad. But I also have a custom Exhaust and no cat so it probley doesnt get as hot as stock. This thread got me through it! Thanks indeed!

[rocklandxjer]

Those of you, including myself, who've had the front passenger floor pan rust away should wonder why this is happening. Today I found out why. If there's an internal water leak in the AC evaporator (quite common), that water seeps under the carpet and covers the floor pan, slowly converting the steel into brown dust.
The definitive cure is to replace the AC evaporator but that's a bitch of a job 'cause the whole dash has to be removed. A simpler alternative is to repair the floor pan and coat it with a waterproof sealant. If you have only small holes, you could patch them up with fibreglass and treat the surrounding areas with fibreglass resin.


orrrr.... its the fact that any water that gets into your cab gets stuck there in the cushion under the carpet. then, after driving, the exhaust pipe heats up not only that water, but the mud underneath the floorpans. the combination of mud and water for a long period of time leads to rust.



and i have no carpets, herced the whole thing. the only spot that gets hot is the passenger side trans tunnel. the floor gets a little hot on long trips, but its not that bad...

the exhaust pipe is the biggest culprit. thats why the passenger side is often the most rusted.

[1985xjlaredo]

Mine was more rusted on the driver side? I think it would start there first, it's the most used part of the cab.

[mattrichter]

heres some pics of my 1995 XJ. i'm going through this floor replacement also.. just wanted to say thanks for this thread, it helped me save time figuring out what i needed for supplies and so forth..
as of right now i have the rear cargo area up to under the rear seat done and sprayed with a rust inhibiter paint.
nevermind, i cant figure out the image upload right now. and its late!!
can i upload images on here or do i have to have a web hosted image?

[Black2doorXJ]

On the forums for my other car I have always hosted my photos on www.photobucket.com Then you just copy the link below the pic and paste it into this window. I JUST bought a 94 XJ that has pretty much no floor and no exhaust.. I bought the floor pans last week and I am welding then in this weekend.. I will try to rememeber to get some pics.

[1985xjlaredo]

Yea you need ot become a member to just attach photos I think, Mine is 99 percent done.
What did everyone do with the wires that go from the rear of the tunnel to the loom before the driver rear wheel well?

[JeepXJ93]

good question, i was just thinking about that the other day b/c i'm almost ready for a coating, i have a gallon of second skin firewall on the way, i cant remember how much slack there is but i was thinking maybe just unclip it and re-route it along the plastic side panels? I just drove mine home from my buddies garage b/c he was gonna let me use his welder....i have serious problems w/ either my motor or tranny, anyone interested see my other thread about "engine or tranny" in oem tech. Thanks all!

[mattrichter]

ok, i'll try this.. heres a pic of rear cargo rusted, and mostly finished.
the 2 panels with screws in the middle are going to be removable peices for the upper shock mount bolts.
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/mattrichter/Picture012.jpg
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/mattrichter/Jeepproject001.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/mattrichter/Picture011.jpghttp://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/mattrichter/Jeepproject003.jpg

[mattrichter]

heres a pic of front driverside cut out.. i'm getting at this right after i get off here.. enjoyhttp://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q23/mattrichter/Picture035.jpg

[JeepXJ93]

Alright, i just bought a few tubes of roofing tar to seal up the seams like earlier mentioned in this thread...but i dont see a dry time and i'd like to paint over the rest w/ the second skin...so i called the co. of the roofing tar i bought and the guy said it could take up to a month to be dry to the touch...whats up w/ that? did i just buy the wrong kind? Where can i find a kind that dries rubberized or something in 24-48 hours...is there such thing or is it ok to just paint over it while wet?

[bacelaw]

Alright, i just bought a few tubes of roofing tar to seal up the seams like earlier mentioned in this thread...but i dont see a dry time and i'd like to paint over the rest w/ the second skin...so i called the co. of the roofing tar i bought and the guy said it could take up to a month to be dry to the touch...whats up w/ that? did i just buy the wrong kind? Where can i find a kind that dries rubberized or something in 24-48 hours...is there such thing or is it ok to just paint over it while wet?

I just finished repairing floors - I went quick, easy, and cheap, and I still am sure it will outlast the jeep.

I used 20ga steel, self-tapping screws, and roof tar (the kind that comes in a caulking gun).

The roof tar doesn't fully cure for weeks. I painted over it with rustoleum primer, and then their rust stopper paint. Eventually it hardens up, and I think you could patch the floor without even securing it with screws - roofing tar seriously hardens up.

So, yah, I think you can paint over it in a couple days.

Also - Herculiner rules!! It deadens the sound, seals up where you screw in panels...etc...

[mattrichter]

i definately see the need for welding in the steel if your doing large sections.. the unibody setup on the xj is kinda crapy to begin with, and a bunch of rust to the mix and you may have a bad outcome.. i added steel supports where ever i could. just my to cents...

[1985xjlaredo]

Yea you should weld those repair panels in especially if you are going up the trans tunnel. You'll notice that with all that Metal gone as in the above pic on this page that it is very flexible and weak. I even welded a couple 1/4" angle piece inside the frame rails to help stiffen them up.
I am thinking of filling up the frame rail with that injection foam insulation now that I have the metal done, to keep out the water and mud cause i couldnt paint under the frame rail once i welded it into place.

[BSH]

I've learned enough from this thread to feel confident about doing my floor, but I have trouble with the cross member that the rear mounts for the front seat go through. How do you replace those? The cross member on my passenger side front seat is shot. What do you replace that with?

[bacelaw]

if you can weld, i imagine the rusty crossmembers can be cut out and replaced....you could even cut some good sections out of a junkyard xj.

my crossmembers were rusty, but still strong, that's some thing guage metal. i grinded the surface, primed, painted.

[1985xjlaredo]

Just fab up your own cross member. There reeally is nothign too important about it so It doesn't need to be very precise. Run it al the way across the under side and weld it into the metal lip on the door sill area. that'll stiffen everything up while your at it.

[rag]

my 89 had no floor above the muffler. my girlfriends xj has atleast some floor leftabove her exhaust and she has some minor holes by the pedals.

someone reccommend me an arc welder+spot welder and/or a mig with price in mind. my house is all wired for 115v. i dont mind having a 50%duty cycle but id rather keep the percentage higher.

all i plan to do with them is weld up a bunch floors and eventually do some bumpers and rails

money is an issue for a poor college student earning minimum wage.

thankyou

[MattAnonymous]

Bringing this thread back from the dead.

I finally got sick of wheeling and having water come up through the floors. I found a full pan a Morris 4x4 in Pompano Beach, FL. It's only an hour away from my parents' house, so I went down and picked it while visiting. $160 after tax. Pretty damn good IMO. They're good people, too. Very helpful. Great prices. www.cyberjeep.com

Ok, so I go to school at the University of Central Florida and I live on campus. This is my only vehicle (that's driveable, anyway), so that complicates things slightly. I've opted for SEM Weld-Bond due to the lack of 230v outlets near the parking lot. I also like what I've read about its strength.

I have a 50' extension cord running out the window of my dorm to the parking lot. This allows me to get power to my Harbor Freight tools (they do the job, most of the time).

http://www.collegepix.net/images/jeep/repair/driversidecut.JPG


http://www.collegepix.net/images/jeep/repair/passsidecut.JPG

And that beautiful new pan:
http://www.collegepix.net/images/jeep/repair/newpanrear.JPG

I plan on herculining the pan once it's in. Actually, since I'm not welding, it may be better to do it before I put it in.

Matt

[TMXONR]

Bringing this thread back from the dead.

I finally got sick of wheeling and having water come up through the floors. I found a full pan a Morris 4x4 in Pompano Beach, FL. It's only an hour away from my parents' house, so I went down and picked it while visiting. $160 after tax. Pretty damn good IMO. They're good people, too. Very helpful. Great prices. www.cyberjeep.com (http://www.cyberjeep.com)

Ok, so I go to school at the University of Central Florida and I live on campus. This is my only vehicle (that's driveable, anyway), so that complicates things slightly. I've opted for SEM Weld-Bond due to the lack of 230v outlets near the parking lot. I also like what I've read about its strength.

I have a 50' extension cord running out the window of my dorm to the parking lot. This allows me to get power to my Harbor Freight tools (they do the job, most of the time).






And that beautiful new pan:
http://www.collegepix.net/images/jeep/repair/newpanrear.JPG

I plan on herculining the pan once it's in. Actually, since I'm not welding, it may be better to do it before I put it in.

Matt

Cool they pre-rusted the pan for you. j/k


I just put in the Sherman Parts floorpans. I tried making my own pans, but it was a pain.
Hers is a link to my write up.
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=906957

[MattAnonymous]

Lol. Rust? I don't see any rust:

http://photos-245.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v66/129/25/5102548/n5102548_33537245_4332.jpg

mmmm. So much more manly than carpet. I used rubber undercoating on the bottom and bed liner on top (both spray-on). I'm kinda diggin' the undercoating feel, so I may be spraying it on top too. Both were very easy to apply and came out beautifully. I used 3M oil, grease, wax remover and roughed up the surface with a scotch-brite pad before applying the coatings.

[maine96xj]

does anyone have pics of a bed lined floor pan(no carpet) installed, do you like this? do the drian plugs get in the way of you/your passengers feet? do you just pull a plug to drain it if water from shoes and stuff gets on it?

[montanaman]

does anyone have pics of a bed lined floor pan(no carpet) installed, do you like this? do the drian plugs get in the way of you/your passengers feet? do you just pull a plug to drain it if water from shoes and stuff gets on it?
I think one of the advantages of bedliner and a drain plug (vs. carpeting) is that you can wash the floor really easily after a day of mudding, then just pull the plug to drain the wash water away.

[1985xjlaredo]

Dam that pan Is SWEET! I covered up most of my drain plugs only left the 2 lowest ones on each side :) Are u going to just cover what is there or cut out and fit the pan in?

[MattAnonymous]

Dam that pan Is SWEET! I covered up most of my drain plugs only left the 2 lowest ones on each side :) Are u going to just cover what is there or cut out and fit the pan in?

No way man, I'm doing this right. All of the old pan is coming out. I'm going to hammer-form the drain plug holes downward. This will allow the plugs to sit flush with the pan as well as persuade liquid to drain through them.

I'm not going back to carpet for several reasons:
-Cost
-It's just gonna get ruined
-It's a Jeep
-It looks better w/o it
-Easy cleanup
-No more layer of 'oxidation sponge' (ie that cushion beneath the carpet)
-If the bed liner gets messed up, I just spray some more on.
-Rust won't be able to hide as easily (ie I can treat the cancer long before it spreads. I don't plan on having to deal with floor rust again, but this'll be much better in the event that I do.)

I'll do a write-up on the removal and installation using the Weld-Bond. I don't believe you guys have one on here where someone replaced the entire pan and used adhesive to secure the new one.

Here's the latest:
http://photos-450.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v66/129/25/5102548/n5102548_33552450_4273.jpg

I'm out of cutoff wheels and I'm tired of removing stuff, so I'm gonna start straightening the rails and remaining sheet metal out so I have a level surface for the new pan. I've also gotta take care of the rust in the driver side frame rail. I'll be giving the inside of the rails a coating of rustoleum.

http://photos-441.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v66/129/25/5102548/n5102548_33552441_9430.jpg

Matt

[1985xjlaredo]

I would at least tack that new pan in. And be careful to not tweak the body too much when you install the new pan. Thats about 70% of the strength of the body you ohave sut out there. But it looks like you have a good thing going there for ya.

[maine96xj]

http://photos-441.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v66/129/25/5102548/n5102548_33552441_9430.jpg

Matt

i think i would try to strenthen that rail someway, is that a big crack at the top of the pic on the ride side of the rail???:eek:

[MattAnonymous]

No crack, just the way the pic was taken. The rust isn't as deep as it looks. I'm gonna grind it away and throw a nice coating of paint on there.

I put the pan in to test fit it. Everything seems ok except the studs on either side for the rear of the front seat brackets closest to the doors don't line up with the pre-cut holes.

http://photos-494.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v66/129/25/5102548/n5102548_33553494_2198.jpg

http://photos-495.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v66/129/25/5102548/n5102548_33553495_2463.jpg

Next, I'll be drilling holes through the pan into the mating parts of the frame. These holes will allow me to pull the pan down securely to the frame while the adhesive is curing. I don't know what I'm gonna do with all the holes just yet.

[montanaman]

Next, I'll be drilling holes through the pan into the mating parts of the frame. These holes will allow me to pull the pan down securely to the frame while the adhesive is curing. I don't know what I'm gonna do with all the holes just yet.

You're talking about using screws with the weld-bond glue, right? That would be a must.

[MattAnonymous]

Yeah. The fact that I didn't mention screws in there is beyond me. I bought a box of 100 sheet metal screws that will be going into those holes. I'm gonna have to get creative to figure out what I'm gonna do to fill or cover those holes after the screws come out. I'm sure I'll think of something.

[4xBob]

Treating the inside of the frame rails: mud and water get stuck in there, and maybe road salt too (depends where you live). It just sits in there, and doesn't dry. NO PAINT can stand up to that. Since you have the frame rails open from above, you can permanently solve the rust problem by rubbing a coat of grease into the inside of the rails, leave it a couple mm (1/8 inch) thick. It will trap dust and dirt to become a water-proof layer, self-healing if bashed/bent. My approach was to inject chainsaw bar oil (not mix oil) into the rails with a home-made sprayer. Good quality bar oil has a rust inhibitor (phosphoric acid) and a tackifier (makes it tacky, it really sticks). Down side is it drips for a few days- I park over a plastic drop-sheet, which cost about $2 at the paint department. Yes, it is overkill, but I don't want to ever mess with rusted out rails. One of my XJs is a 1990, owned since new.

[MattAnonymous]

For most of my Cherokee's life, it was driven around Ohio. The salt is what really did it in.

While we're on the topic of 'more extreme' frame rail rust prevention, what about an expanding foam insulation like "GreatStuff"? Even better would be some polyurethane structural foam to provide rigidity in addition to sealing the rails.

I think I'll prime it with a rust converter and then hit it with some rubberized undercoating.

[montanaman]

I'm gonna have to get creative to figure out what I'm gonna do to fill or cover those holes after the screws come out. I'm sure I'll think of something.
You know ... if it were me, I think I'd put about 20 or 30 nuts and bolts around the perimeter of that new pan (in addition to the glue) and just leave them in there. I'd snug them up tight with the threaded end going down, and cut off the excess bolt threads to make it look somewhat clean from below. You'd only have the bolt heads on the interior, and they would be covered by carpet and trim ... or at least made not obvious by the bedliner spray.

I'm sure that weld-bond stuff is the latest and greatest, but over time epoxies can crack.

Not trying to tell you how to do your job, just saying what I would do if I wasn't using a welder.

[mackamitsu]

Not much farther, i'm hesitant as to how to seal up the new patches, i bought sheets of 18 and 20 guage...and i cut out the excess rust and grinded the rest away so i basically just need to get those patches welded up somehow....and seeing i dont have a welder i dont know what to do...i didnt want to spend money to pay someone to do it but i guess thats the best way to go right now huh? Let me know if the cold weld will work for something like this instead, otherwise i cant think of any other way around it. What do u think?

I recomend a product called Sikaflex 552. You need to have the metal prepped right, and follow the instructions, its not cheap (well cheaper then a welder) but it does work very well. You can get it at any good autobody supply shop. The great thing is, that beginners aren't intimidated by it, and it doesn't heat up the surrounding metal and burn off the rust proof cladding of the galvanized body metal.

[MattAnonymous]

Well, I went outside the other day to meet a friend of mine so that I could get a ride to grab some supplies. Low and behold, there he is rocking the Jeep via the rear bumper. After yelling a few choice words at him, he jumped off. I don't know what possessed him to do such a thing, but he did and now my driver side door isn't closing right.

I think I may add one more use to the farm jack... frame straightening. I just have to figure out where to start from and what I can safely get leverage from.

As far as what I'm going to do about the screw holes, I was thinking of running some thin diamond plate or just any ol' sheet metal over them, originally. Now, I'm thinking that since the truck will be mobile once the adhesive has cured, I can drive it out to where my arc welder resides and spot weld the holes. I think that'd make a lot of you old-school guys sleep better, too.

In the meantime, I have to find new seat brackets because the old ones rusted out. I've also gotta remove the front seat bracket studs and excess floorpan/seat bracket pieces.

I bought some brand name drill bits that specify no other use than drilling through metal, a gallon acetone to remove the factory sealant, paint, etc, a scraper, and some other knick-knacks.

My goal is to have all of the holes drilled, pan pulled back out, sealant removed, surfaces prepped, new radiator installed, front header panel and lights installed, and dents removed from driver side fender (separate from the floor pan stuff obviously) by the end of the day. However, that'll have to start after class, which is where I'm headed to now.

Peace,
Matt

PS: After I get back, I'm gonna post up some pics of my driver side door's current alignment situation. If you guys have any insight as to how to correct it, I'd really appreciate it.

[dizzymac]

Is this sitting on tires/wheels? You have the floor pan removed so you have lost the unibody integrity. I thnk your freind has managed to tweak your frame out of the alignment it was in when you removed the floor pans.
What I had to do when this happened on mine( had both pans out at the same time) was to put it up on jackstands. I used eight and leveled it on the the stands, this brought my frame back in to proper alignment and thus my door prob was cured.
Now that this has happened you can understand why some of us "old school"...lol, have concerns about you using an adhesive to hold in your pan. I know DC recommends the "glue", but that is for pan repairs. That floor pan really needs to connected to the rails and IMHO welding is the best way to go. If you start drilling holes in the rails you'll only weaken them.
This is a $uck job to do so you may as well do it the best possible way the first time and be done with it so you can enjoy...hopefully...many more years with your XJ.
Wish you all the best in your endeavor.

[mackamitsu]

Dizzy,

well I don't agree with your adhesive train of thought, having done floor boards in cars with adhesive (yes flimsy ricey honduhs). I think what the main issue was here is that he did not wait for the full curing time. Until the adhesive has cured, it will be weaker. Sekaflex is used on many body panels, and yes it is used on structural panels, so the adhesive isn't the issue, but I believe that he didn't let it cure properly, or was using something that wasn't automotive standard.

Matt,

straightening the frame is pretty easy, Dizzymac pretty much summed up the backyard way to do it. What adhesive are you using?

[tiburontropic]

What is the typical age of these vehicle that have rusted out floor pans. I have a 2001, should I be concerned or are the new ones better?

[MattAnonymous]

Ok, here are the shots of the door I promised.

http://www.collegepix.net/images/jeep/repair/fulldoor.JPG

http://www.collegepix.net/images/jeep/repair/doorfront.JPG

http://www.collegepix.net/images/jeep/repair/doorbottom.JPG

http://www.collegepix.net/images/jeep/repair/doorrear.JPG

http://www.collegepix.net/images/jeep/repair/doortop.JPG

And here are some pics of the door slightly ajar.

http://www.collegepix.net/images/jeep/repair/doortopopen.JPG

http://www.collegepix.net/images/jeep/repair/doorrearopen.JPG

Oh and here's a pic of the pan with some of the screws going in (just test fitting).

http://www.collegepix.net/images/jeep/repair/floorpanscrew.JPG

The pan is listed as being for a 1996 XJ. I've got a 93, so I've had to 'customize' it here and there.

Matt

[maine96xj]

what is being used to insulate up by the firewall and over the cat if you are not coving the reapired floor with anyhting. im into mine now and i dont want to put carpet back in and cant afford vinyl. do you need insulate by the firewall? and over the cat? what do you use?

[MattAnonymous]

For insulation from heat, check the first page of this thread. There are a few options. I'll probably go to Home Depot and find something comparable to install on the pan above the exhaust.

I guess I'm gonna go ahead and do the jack stand thing to straighten the frame. I've just gotta find enough stands and/or cinder blocks.

I mean no disrespect when I say "old school". Using adhesive goes against my logic too. It'll be interesting to see what happens. However, I don't want to have to worry about this pan, so I'll be spot welding through the anchor points (aka screw holes) as soon as I can. The adhesive should be more than strong enough to hold everything in place until then.

I mentioned it already, but since someone asked, I'm using SEM Weld-Bond. I've done my research and this seems to be damn good stuff. A quick smell check of the bag it came in says it doesn't fool around. By far, one of the most danger-scented products I've ever handled.

Just a note on acetone to remove the factory sealant, it's a no go. Looks like the wire wheel and/or grinder will be the route of choice. However, I remember this paint remover stuff I used to buy that was a gel. That stuff would eat up anything. Hurt like hell on an open wound, too. Hmm. Where did I get that?

[montanaman]

I'm using SEM Weld-Bond. I've done my research and this seems to be damn good stuff.

Here's a quote I found on the first ad that came up in a google search:

"SEM Weld-Bond is not designed for structural components such as rocker panels, rails or core supports ... "

http://www.levineautoparts.com/semwelad.html

SEM Weld-bond is designed for door skins, van sides, roof panels ... things like that. Auto body sheet metal. The floor panels are an integral part of the frame structure, as you've already discovered.

Honestly ... I wouldn't drive my vehicle 10 feet with just the weld-bond. At the very minimum, you should keep the screws in there until you can get to a welder.

I mean no offense in posting this, and I know what a pain it is when people are telling you what to do, but I'd hate to see all your hard work go to waste as soon as you pull out of the parking lot. When I was your age, I did the floor pans on a '67 VW beetle, which has a similar frame structure. There's just no way in the world that Weld-Bond is going to hold up under even moderate flexing that occurs when you turn a corner. Keep the sheet metal screws in there, or better yet, use nuts and bolts, and take it directly from the dorm parking lot to the welding location.

Another idea ... have you considered talking to the University maintenance guys? I'm sure they have access to a portable (gas generator) welder in one of the shops on campus, and they might be able to come to the parking lot after-hours and spot-weld all your holes before you move anything. When you get to talking to people, they might become interested or even excited about your project and want to see it. That always makes guys more willing to help. Or ... they might be able to take out a set of tanks and a torch. You can do some brass brazing in the holes, which would be structurally similar to a spot weld.

Just my 2 cents worth. If you decide to ignore this advice, I honestly hope I'm wrong :-).

Good luck.

[Pro Stock John]

I'd get it in, put in a bunch of screws, and then drive over to someone and get the pan welded. I'd shield the fuel line with wet rags. You will lose a ton of structural integrity without welding, and I would not consider your Jeep safe. If you were just patching the floor it would be no bigggie you are doing a much larger section. Just my 2 cents.

[dizzymac]

Check out www.thermotec.com for insulating material, they have some great products. If $$$ are a real big issue I would at least do the "Air Bake" method above the cat. and the eng. pipe leading up to the cat.
If you look around you can find some inexpensive reflective insulation for the lower firewall

[89Daytona]

Expect the undercoating/bed liner to catch on fire when welded unless you clean atleast 2" around the weld areas. So a hose/wet towel/leather glove/ fire extinguisher will come in handy.

[maine96xj]

im into mine now. my patches are so big i would almost call it a two piece replacement pan, i bent it all out of 16ga. too, took allot of hammering and grinding.

i just drilled holes in the patches over stuructal pieces, like seat brace,"frame rail", and under door lips. im am going to plug weld in these holes with my mig and just do some taks all around the outer edge to keep it down. after that im gunna grind it as smooth as i can get it, prime it and truck bed coat the hole inside, then im gunna see how hot and loud the floor is with any carpet.

[TMXONR]

Hey Matt, you need to go and take the doors off of the car of your friend who was jumping on the bumper.

does anyone have pics of a bed lined floor pan(no carpet) installed, do you like this? do the drian plugs get in the way of you/your passengers feet? do you just pull a plug to drain it if water from shoes and stuff gets on it?

maine, here are some pics of my herculined floor and a link to my write-up. I just put in new pans.

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=906957

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b346/TMXONR/Jeep/DSC03727.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b346/TMXONR/Jeep/DSC03728.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b346/TMXONR/Jeep/DSC03731.jpg

[maine96xj]

TMXORN

where did you run wires that go aross the rear foot well area?

does this get hot without any insulation along downpipe and cat? do you have any sound deading material up by the firewall?is it loud?

ill post pics of mine tomorrow, its seems like you put a lot more spot weld holes than i did, so ill most likely make some more.

what did you use as seam seeler? i was just going to use metal chaulking but what you used looks better

[TMXONR]

TMXORN

where did you run wires that go aross the rear foot well area?

does this get hot without any insulation along downpipe and cat? do you have any sound deading material up by the firewall?is it loud?

ill post pics of mine tomorrow, its seems like you put a lot more spot weld holes than i did, so ill most likely make some more.

what did you use as seam seeler? i was just going to use metal chaulking but what you used looks better

I forgot to take pics of my routing of the wire, but I split the tape where the set of wire comming from the shifter meets up with the wire comming from the back. Then I ran the wire under the drivers seat, and through the trim, then to the back. I just used some black Duct tape to hold it down, Yea its duct tape, but its black, it holds good, and you cant see it anyway.

It doesn't get hot that I noticed, I will probably drive it to school tomorrow to check everything out since it is done. I drove it some when it was just the bare metal floors, and I touched them after about a 30 min drive, and they were barely warm. I don't think it is any louder than stock, but I don't really drive this much since it isn't my DD, its just soemthing to mess around with.

I was going to use some 3M automotive sealer, but the guy at Oreilly said they only had the type for a caulk gun, and not the brush on. He recomended going to lowes and seeing if they had any. I ended up finding some stuff that looks like the same stuff, it is for sealing metal duct work.

[maine96xj]

ok heres pics of my cancer, its not going to bad, should be starting and finishing welding today, then sealer with the 3M auto sealer i got, then priming. i will be herculining tomorrow.

Here are the Holes

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/owenhutch/My%2096/Floor%20Fix/Owen001.jpg

Heres the cancerous carpet that is definatly not going back in.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/owenhutch/My%2096/Floor%20Fix/Owen002.jpg

Heres where the water came in, this is right where the windshield washer bottle usaully is.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/owenhutch/My%2096/Floor%20Fix/Owen005.jpg

Here are the three patches. two go on drivers side.(each side of seat brace) and the big one goes all the way across the passenger side. Forming these out of 16ga wasn't to easy. but it will be strong. im gunna spot weld in the holes (mostly over frame rail and seat belt brace straps.) so i dont think this floor will be going anywhere for a long time...i can see it now the floor sitting in my garage 15years from now with nothing around it.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/owenhutch/My%2096/Floor%20Fix/Owen004.jpg

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/owenhutch/My%2096/Floor%20Fix/Owen003.jpg

[MattAnonymous]

Looks good.

I dunno what I'm gonna do about this door, but I'm giving up on it for now. I need to be able to drive again. It's not like the thing's perfect to begin with.

[MattAnonymous]

OK guys, here's an update.

Went to go use the SEM Weld Bond earlier this week. Spent a ton of time prepping the surfaces. Turns out that one of the 2 parts of the adhesive had dried within the tube. Ok, screw it, I'll just arc weld it in with the crappy welder I bought the previous day.

I've been doing my absolute best trying to arc weld the pan to the frame via the holes I drilled, but it doesn't want to stick. It could be the cheap HF rods or the cheap HF welder, but I don't know if I care to find out.

ADVICE NEEDED: I'm new to this whole "doing it the right way" thing, so I need some help. If I were to take this somewhere to have the pan welded, what type of place am I looking for and how much am I looking to spend?

Thanks a ton,
Matt

[89Daytona]

ARC welding sheetmetal is a pain, MIG is soooo much easier.

As for where to have it done a Welding shop or body shop can do it, prices will vary so you should get quotes before deciding where to get it done.

[MattAnonymous]

I'll be sure tomorrow, but I believe the HF POS rods were the culprit.

I got a ride to Lowe's today and grabbed some 6013 1/16" Lincoln rods. Wow, what a difference.

The Chicago Electric welder seems to be doing a fine job. The majority of the weld is intact after using the chipping hammer. Also, I can pull up on the pan through the drain holes and the frame moves with it.

I'm so happy!

Spring break starts for us next week and it'd be really nice to get this thing on the road for that. Of course, the ultimate goal is to get it 'off' the road. The damn thing just doesn't look right without a few coats of mud on it.

I'm not a big fan of MIG. It has its place with everything else, but ARC is so versatile. It takes a little bit of practice, but I'm becoming much more confident with it. Can't wait to fire up the 230v Lincoln and fab some bumpers and rockers.

Matt

[montanaman]

Matt: Did you get your frame lined up now?

[MattAnonymous]

Matt: Did you get your frame lined up now?

I had a good friend come over because I needed a second pair of eyes.

After looking at it with the same stumped expression as my own for a few minutes, he said, "Dude, I think I found it, but I don't think you're gonna be happy about what it is."

He pointed out that the hinges on the driver side door have a considerable gap between them and the 'frame' as compared to the other side. There was slight movement in them when we lifted the door.

We did some quick estimations and believe that the deflection on the front of the door would be compounded enough at the other end to cause such a misalignment.

Shoot, that's cake. Anything's better than a twisted frame. I've just gotta get this pan done and then I'll figure out how I want to fix the door problem and beef up that area.

I dunno how I feel about unibodies at the moment. I just don't see any advantages from the wheeling point of view.

Matt

[MattAnonymous]

So, I'm pretty much done with the floor pan install. I still have to weld the parking brake brackets to the underside of the pan and put my console back in. Also, Opie kindly donated some roll-on bedliner that'll be going in soon. I'm taking a break now that it's functional so that I can enjoy some of my spring break.

I took her out last night.

http://photos-001.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v66/129/25/5102548/n5102548_33811001_4995.jpg

Here's the pan. Yeah, that's mud inside. I need to find some rubber plugs to go in place of where they cut out for the factory, pointless steel plugs.
http://photos-002.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v66/129/25/5102548/n5102548_33811002_5346.jpg

I didn't really take pride in my work until AC/DC came on the radio and I was keeping the beat by stomping my left foot into the now solid floor beneath it.

Not completely done, but good enough to relax for a bit.

Matt

[montanaman]

That's great, Matt ... looks like you've got a nice solid ride again.

Did you weld it in?

[CodyB]

Well, I guess I get to get in on this too, my '95 has a few spots of cancer over the exaust on the passenger side, pulled interior and carpet tonight, going to get the trusty grinder and brush wheel out and get all the paint outta there. Im not shure on what to lay down after I'm done, but I think either the walmart rattle can bed liner or some paint on herculiner. co$t is key so Im gonna do this as cheap as possible. But welding is the way I'm going, even since it is just a few spots. but tomorrow I will get the rear carpet out to see what its like back there. Rust makes me wanna :puke:

[StanBo]

Thought I would bring this one back from the dead. How are your floors holding up fellas? I have a couple spots in need of repair and I am considering a whole new floor.

[Nubster]

Yeah, was I glad to find this thread. I took the carpet out of my 96' and I bet you couldn't guess that most of the rear and the passenger side front floors were rusted. I know, I was as shocked as you are...lol...so anyways, this thread has given me lots of great info and the confidence to tackle this project myself. I just gotta get a hold of a welder.

[kastein]

My whole trunk is rusted out pretty badly along with a large hole in the drivers side floorpan (which I haven't messed with yet). Anyone consider doing 1/8" diamondplate in the trunk area, and if so, where did you buy the materials from?

[xcalibur223]

I'm going to be tackling this project soon. Anyone have advice? Would it be ok to screw and seal them down for now until I can get someone to weld them in?

[kastein]

I'd say so, just remember that using sealant is going to make welding hell, especially if it is between the pieces of metal. I'd use nothing more than a few layers of some sort of tape that doesn't leave residue behind personally.

Also, the screw holes are going to require welding or filling if you want to do it "right".

[xcalibur223]

I have access to an arc welder but have never welded before. Not sure if I wanna try on something as big as this. I guess I'm gonna try to find a shop or someone that will do it for me.

[kastein]

Welding thin sheet metal is... interesting. I'm pretty gimpy with a welder still, I'm really good at blowing holes in sheet metal that's for sure.

[BSH]

I used plain old pop rivets on my patches. The patches I put in two years ago are holding up fine - but the cancer is spreading and I need to do more work in there. :(

[dagr8tim]

Personally, when I patched the floor pans on an old ford I had, I used a 14x28 pizza pan (from a shop I used to work at). I was able to cut it down and get 2 good patches out of it.

Basically I cleaned up the floor with a wire brush, laid out my patch, drilled some pilot holes, buttered the underside of the patch with roofing tar that had fiberglass strands in it, then used self tapping sheet metal screws. I topped it off with some more roofing tar to seal everything up.

Worked awesome.

[scottieb]

Ok a question for all that have replaced your front pans, what do you do about the front mounts for the front seats, cut them out and replace? Replace floor around them? All of the replacement pan i have seen, none of them have the (crossmember) for mounting. I would guess for the rear mount (front seat) you could just bolt right threw the floor? I have just started this project, i am not a body work guy, i have never done anything like this before. I am fine with mechanical work, but this sheetmetal stuff scares me, not to mention I am VERY cheap!! So if someone can help me out with how to do the seat mounts that would be great!! thanks in advanced

[dagr8tim]

I'm going to be tackling this project soon. Anyone have advice? Would it be ok to screw and seal them down for now until I can get someone to weld them in?

I did that in an old ford, and it was still holding strong when I got rid of it 3 years later.

[vt98xj]

Just got my replacement floors in from UPS and of course have a couple of questions.

Century Mig 110 volt, can be used both flux core and with gas, would flux core do the trick or should I borrow my friends tank? and get some new wire.

I don't believe I have to replace my entire front floor, only between the support and the rocker on the Driver side and from the tranny hump to the support on the Passenger side. would it be better to replace the whole thing or just patch what is rusted. I do have the entire passenger and driver side pans. what is best to use to seal the new pan or pieces I am going to be putting in.

I also plan on putting the carpet back in, has anyone ever run herculiner or POR-15 under the carpet. Should I, POR-15 then hurculiner then carpet? I live in the salt belt so I want to do it right. what is the best way to protect the underside of the jeep? I usually rubber undercoat every fall.

[cmelo]

Gas welding would be best, flux core runs a little hotter and is more likely to burn holes but will work fine.

Depending on where there is rot it may or may not be best to replace most of it. I know I'd rather not have to grind down all those spot welds if it's not necessary.

Alot of people use the POR-15/Herculiner combo.

[arctycfox]

for those, like me, who wish to replace those p.o.s. metal drain plugs with something more user friendly.......page 5

http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/fbshopmain2.asp?input=body+grommet+plug&SM=1&SC=

[moneypit]

for those, like me, who wish to replace those p.o.s. metal drain plugs with something more user friendly.......page 5

http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/fbshopmain2.asp?input=body+grommet+plug&SM=1&SC=

Date-coded spark plug wires for a slant six?