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AW4 SLIPPING

C85D4x4

C85D4x4

NAXJA Member #1311
Location
Ohio, Brecksville
I got 96 not too long ago with 145,000 on it

The fluid still was nice and Red.....but i felt a little slipping in 4low......

So I asked 5-90 what to do.......
He Suggested to use Berryman B-12 "Chemtool"

So after having it in the tranny a few days I changed the filter and put in fresh Dexron III in

Ever since....it takes longer time to shift in 2-HI
(mostly shifting from 1st to 2nd)

And In 4-LOW.......the engine just revs up for a second, and then it seems the jeep just thrust forward, and then slips some, and jump forward again



I Wish I just left the damn thing alone.............

Any usful suggestions guys...............
 
I really....REALLY......rather not do that......

With my luck Ill have the same problem or some other problem with a junk yard tranny........

If I have to.....Ill rather re-build the damn thing........I just never re-built one b4.......Iv only have done engines

But I dont want to jump to conclusions yet
 
I'm sure you have already checked, but is your TPS good? Your TCU?
The AW-4 is supposed to be near bulletproof unless it overheats, and it sounds like yours hasn't (judging by the good fluid).

If all else fails, you could try a bottle of lucas in there to see if that will get some more mileage out of the thing, but I'd exhaust all other options first. I have no problem adding "snake oil" to my engine, but I would never add anything to a transmission unless I was sure it was on it's last legs.
 
clunk said:
I'm sure you have already checked, but is your TPS good? Your TCU?
The AW-4 is supposed to be near bulletproof unless it overheats, and it sounds like yours hasn't (judging by the good fluid).

If all else fails, you could try a bottle of lucas in there to see if that will get some more mileage out of the thing, but I'd exhaust all other options first. I have no problem adding "snake oil" to my engine, but I would never add anything to a transmission unless I was sure it was on it's last legs.
Click to expand...

How do i go about checking these?

I dont see how it could be them being It just happend after a fluid change
 
One bottle of Lucas shouldn't hurt it...since its an AW4...like clunk said, their suppose to be bulletproof. Theres lots of people that debate whether to used Dexron III or ATF-4... Ive opted for the ATF-4 because the properties of the fluid allow it to last longer without viscosity breakdown from heat and friction... as compared to Dexron III or ATF-3. Ive also heard that Chrysler now recommends ATF-4 in the AW4... even though its not a Chrysler tranny. We have ATF-4 and one bottle of Lucas in my bros 96 XJ AW4 (35's). He drives it hard and it has higher mileage than the one your speaking of... no slipping, and shifts as smooth as our 2000 XJ.
 
Slo-Sho said:
Enjoy the ride while you can, and let us know where you get the AW4 rebuild parts from.
Click to expand...

C85D4x4 said:
Any usful suggestions guys...............
Click to expand...



BLKXJ33 said:
One bottle of Lucas shouldn't hurt it...since its an AW4...like clunk said, their suppose to be bulletproof. Theres lots of people that debate whether to used Dexron III or ATF-4... Ive opted for the ATF-4 because the properties of the fluid allow it to last longer without viscosity breakdown from heat and friction... as compared to Dexron III or ATF-3. Ive also heard that Chrysler now recommends ATF-4 in the AW4... even though its not a Chrysler tranny. We have ATF-4 and one bottle of Lucas in my bros 96 XJ AW4 (35's). He drives it hard and it has higher mileage than the one your speaking of... no slipping, and shifts as smooth as our 2000 XJ.
Click to expand...

Ill try that.......thanks

I wonder if there is some other type of additive that would help the clutches from slipping
 
C85D4x4 said:
Ever since....it takes longer time to shift in 2-HI (mostly shifting from 1st to 2nd)

And In 4-LOW.......the engine just revs up for a second, and then it seems the jeep just thrust forward, and then slips some, and jump forward again
Click to expand...

OK - the problems seem to be related more to the transfer case now, than the transmission proper, since you have different problems in two transfer case ranges. Which box do you have?
 
5-90 said:
OK - the problems seem to be related more to the transfer case now, than the transmission proper, since you have different problems in two transfer case ranges. Which box do you have?
Click to expand...

I have the NP-231 from my old 93 in it

I dont really think that its the transfer case.......
It wasnt like this b4 the fluid change
There is no grinding or clunking.....and 4-hi acks just like 2-hi ....
It just seems more noticeable in 4-low


I also have a guy thats a Hour and a half from me with a AW4 from a 96 wanting $150.......I just may go that rout if i have too
 
C85D4x4 said:
I have the NP-231 from my old 93 in it

I dont really think that its the transfer case.......
It wasnt like this b4 the fluid change
There is no grinding or clunking.....and 4-hi acks just like 2-hi ....
It just seems more noticeable in 4-low


I also have a guy thats a Hour and a half from me with a AW4 from a 96 wanting $150.......I just may go that rout if i have too
Click to expand...

So, 4HI acts just like 2HI, and the problem is a bit more noticeable in 4LO? You're right - that's probably not a transfer case issue then (it would be a bit more noticeable in 4LO because of the gear reduction involved.)

I know that the B-12 is safe for use in the AW4 - because I used it all the time. It could be that the transmission is getting used to being clean now (when significant deposits are removed, this sort of things happens for a week or three...) so try putting up with it just a bit more - but pay attention, and see if the problem is lessening over time.

Failing that, you're paying attention anyhow, so you should be able to give with a compleat symptomology to help with "remote control" troubleshooting. Varnish deposits in a slush box can be tricky...
 
I did B-12 in my AW4 and that was the end of it. It started to slip a little more every week to the point that now I shower, go out, start the jeep, apply the line locks, put it in D, and then go back to the house to get coffee. It can take 2 minutes to get drive to engage in the morning.

I found an aw4 off of a 90 with 110k miles locally I'm going to pull and swap out.
 
5-90 said:
So, 4HI acts just like 2HI, and the problem is a bit more noticeable in 4LO? You're right - that's probably not a transfer case issue then (it would be a bit more noticeable in 4LO because of the gear reduction involved.)

I know that the B-12 is safe for use in the AW4 - because I used it all the time. It could be that the transmission is getting used to being clean now (when significant deposits are removed, this sort of things happens for a week or three...) so try putting up with it just a bit more - but pay attention, and see if the problem is lessening over time.

Failing that, you're paying attention anyhow, so you should be able to give with a compleat symptomology to help with "remote control" troubleshooting. Varnish deposits in a slush box can be tricky...
Click to expand...

Im sure it probably wasnt the B-12 that made this happen..........
It didnt act any different with the B-12 in it........

Im sure it was from the fluid change........the OLD fluid probably was the only thing keeping the tranny going......all the crap in the OLD fluid was probably helping the clutches from the slipping

Now with nothing in the NEW fluid........its probably letting the clutches slip
 
C85D4x4 said:
Im sure it probably wasnt the B-12 that made this happen..........
It didnt act any different with the B-12 in it........

Im sure it was from the fluid change........the OLD fluid probably was the only thing keeping the tranny going......all the crap in the OLD fluid was probably helping the clutches from the slipping

Now with nothing in the NEW fluid........its probably letting the clutches slip
Click to expand...

I have had a few slushboxes that acted silly after a chemical flush and change (I don't like powerflushing - too much to break loose at once, usually ends up causing more trouble than it cures...) and settle down after anywhere between a week and a month. Yes, this even included a 1989 Limited (when we bought it, there was massive paraffin buildup in the valve cover. So, I just flushed the transmission out of hand and explained to my wife what was going on for when she was driving it. It started to settle down after two flushes a fortnight apart, and about a month after the second one. Actually had rather more positive shifts after I broke the paraffin buildup off of the clutches...)

An automatic transmission is usually a picky thing - especially the later models. I really don't like to "shock" them, since I don't know how they'll behave. That's why I usually try to go for a more gradual cleaning, using a mid-level solvent and time. The only time I try to clean one thoroughly and all at once is when I've got the thing torn to bits on the bench.

Bear in mind that, when changing A/T fluid, you're only changing half of it at a time - at best! The torque converter retains at least a gallon, sometimes more. That's why I did the two flushes "back to back" on that 1989 Limited - both to get as much of the old yock out as possible, and to give the TC two shots at getting cleared out.
 
5-90 said:
I have had a few slushboxes that acted silly after a chemical flush and change (I don't like powerflushing - too much to break loose at once, usually ends up causing more trouble than it cures...) and settle down after anywhere between a week and a month. Yes, this even included a 1989 Limited (when we bought it, there was massive paraffin buildup in the valve cover. So, I just flushed the transmission out of hand and explained to my wife what was going on for when she was driving it. It started to settle down after two flushes a fortnight apart, and about a month after the second one. Actually had rather more positive shifts after I broke the paraffin buildup off of the clutches...)

An automatic transmission is usually a picky thing - especially the later models. I really don't like to "shock" them, since I don't know how they'll behave. That's why I usually try to go for a more gradual cleaning, using a mid-level solvent and time. The only time I try to clean one thoroughly and all at once is when I've got the thing torn to bits on the bench.

Bear in mind that, when changing A/T fluid, you're only changing half of it at a time - at best! The torque converter retains at least a gallon, sometimes more. That's why I did the two flushes "back to back" on that 1989 Limited - both to get as much of the old yock out as possible, and to give the TC two shots at getting cleared out.
Click to expand...

O yea I for got to mention that I change the fluid 2 times now (I got a case of Dextron III)..........I have enough for 1 more change........ but i think im going to try a bottle of Lucas tonight to see what happens
 
5-90 said:
Bear in mind that, when changing A/T fluid, you're only changing half of it at a time - at best! The torque converter retains at least a gallon, sometimes more. That's why I did the two flushes "back to back" on that 1989 Limited - both to get as much of the old yock out as possible, and to give the TC two shots at getting cleared out.
Click to expand...

In my case, I put a quart of B12 in, ran the jeep for about 20 minutes on surface streets, and then threw it on a lift and dropped the trans pan. I snagged an adapter that fit the pickup for the AW4 and ran that into a hose that sat in a 5 gallon bucket of Dexron III. I flushed about 3 gallons through using the aw4's internal pump and then reassembled and filled.

I did this because I had slight slippage on cold mornings, for a year or more prior. From that day its been a little worse every time I've started the jeep - and its been more than a year since I did it.
 
cal said:
In my case, I put a quart of B12 in, ran the jeep for about 20 minutes on surface streets, and then threw it on a lift and dropped the trans pan. I snagged an adapter that fit the pickup for the AW4 and ran that into a hose that sat in a 5 gallon bucket of Dexron III. I flushed about 3 gallons through using the aw4's internal pump and then reassembled and filled.

I did this because I had slight slippage on cold mornings, for a year or more prior. From that day its been a little worse every time I've started the jeep - and its been more than a year since I did it.
Click to expand...

This intrigues me. Have you noted any other symptoms coincident with your flush?

Granted, sounds like what you did was a bit more gentle than the usual "power flush" - I don't know what pressure they use, but I'm fairly sure it's pretty heavy (they can get away with it - line pressure in an automatic can be up around 300 pounds in some ranges and loads.) But, I'd like to know what you know - maybe we can sort something out.
 
Not particularly no. My initial problems started after driving back to Orange County from the Rubicon with water in my trans - I didnt have 14 quarts of ATF on the trail to change it with.

I make too many other changes to my rig and wheel it too hard to really track any other symptoms, but once my trans builds up pressure it usually drives like brand new until I park it for a while again. I've been wondering if I have a seal leaking internally somewhere or such.
 
cal said:
Not particularly no. My initial problems started after driving back to Orange County from the Rubicon with water in my trans - I didnt have 14 quarts of ATF on the trail to change it with.

I make too many other changes to my rig and wheel it too hard to really track any other symptoms, but once my trans builds up pressure it usually drives like brand new until I park it for a while again. I've been wondering if I have a seal leaking internally somewhere or such.
Click to expand...

That's a possibility. I've had a couple of AW4s torn to bits, and I think even the cylinder bores are aluminum - so rust from having the water in there shouldn't have been a huge problem (unlike brakes, which use iron cylinders.)

That doesn't mean that the water couldn't have boiled off in the wrong place and damaged a seal, tho, and the seal doesn't pick up until heat and pressure build up to soften and expand it. Interesting...
 
I think Im just going to go with the $150 trans
Rather than spending more money on the one I have

A bottle of Lucas would just band-aid the slipping if it does anything at all......
 
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