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Oh boy, another bastard pack Q.

L

Love2Ride450

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Roseburg, Oregon
I have done a lot of reading about this subject, and really appreciate all of the write-ups. It looks like I will be able to build a lift for much cheaper than buying a full setup. I have decent welding/wrenching skills, and am ready to tackle a project. I was planning on doing a S-10 pack, but after reading all of the info I could find, have all but decided to go MJ. I can get my hands on a set of 2wd MJ springs for FREE, so hoping they will work.

My question is this, Can I / has anyone already used the full MJ spring with a boomerang type shackle. From what I read, I come to the understanding the MJ main is longer than the XJ. Is it the right amount to simply use a boomerang shackle. I would like to get plenty of flex, and a somewhat comfy ride, will this be a good solution? I would like to see around 4-5" of lift, so I can run 32"s rub free with minimal trimming. If I need to, I can piece in some S-10 springs to add lift.

Also, what is the deal with pulling the existing spring eye bolt? I keep hearing it is a pain, and there is some talk about cutting up the floor to do it? Does everyone encounter this problem?

Thanks in advance,
Josh
 
I'll be going to look at removing these mj springs in the mud today, so if anyone knows something about this, please tell me before I get all muddy. I would settle for a link to a thread on the subject.......
 
They are at least 5" longer,so no, a boomerang shackle wont work.You'll have to relocate the mounts somehow!
 
Ah, I don't think I'll be using them as-is then. It sounds like cutting the eyes off of them, and bastardizing my stock top leaf will be the best way. If I use the MJ shackle, and most of the mj pack and xj top leaf, what kind of lift will I LIKELY (as I know they are all different) get?

Thanks for the reply. BTW, as stated previously, this is a 2wd MJ, and my XJ is a 1985 4x4 with 8.25 from a 93 Sport. I also swapped out the 2.8 for a 4.0, but that's another story entirely.....
 
You can fit MJ springs in, it'll just arch more and give you about 5-6" of lift. I don't know if the centering holes will line up, may need to drill them out
 
If I squished those enough to fit between the shackles and the "frame" wouldn't it "push" my shackle to it's most rearward position? If that were the case, wouldn't it make the suspension very stiff?
 
Love2Ride450 said:
If I squished those enough to fit between the shackles and the "frame" wouldn't it "push" my shackle to it's most rearward position? If that were the case, wouldn't it make the suspension very stiff?
Click to expand...

Huh? You mean if you squish the complete MJ pack in? You can't, it's too long as previously stated. It might physically bolt into a boomerang shackle, but the shackle would be swung all the way against the rear.
 
hillbillyhell said:
Huh? You mean if you squish the complete MJ pack in? You can't, it's too long as previously stated. It might physically bolt into a boomerang shackle, but the shackle would be swung all the way against the rear.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you understood me perfectly! Once RCP Phx said they were 5" longer, I immediately thought there was no way they would work without building new mounts. Then ZacSquatch suggested they would fit, but be a lot of arch. At that point I started to think about how stuffing that spring in would make it have lots of arch, but would stuff the shackle all the way to the rear, which would prevent any up travel of the rear axle. I just wanted to make sure I was thinking on the right track, which you have verified.

I think I will do like Powerman, and use most of the MJ pack, my XJ top leaf, the MJ shackle, and plenty of graphite paint and teflon liners. I intend to purchase a RC track bar for 4.5" lift, some RC 4.5" springs, build my own LCA's at a fixed length of 16.5", relocate my rear shock mounts, replace front shocks with some longer travel/longer ext length ones, relocate front brake lines, install wrangler rear brake hose, and pray it all works together.

Any suggestions on what I may be forgetting would be greatly appreciated.
 
Love2Ride450 said:
It sounds like you understood me perfectly! Once RCP Phx said they were 5" longer, I immediately thought there was no way they would work without building new mounts. Then ZacSquatch suggested they would fit, but be a lot of arch. At that point I started to think about how stuffing that spring in would make it have lots of arch, but would stuff the shackle all the way to the rear, which would prevent any up travel of the rear axle. I just wanted to make sure I was thinking on the right track, which you have verified.

I think I will do like Powerman, and use most of the MJ pack, my XJ top leaf, the MJ shackle, and plenty of graphite paint and teflon liners. I intend to purchase a RC track bar for 4.5" lift, some RC 4.5" springs, build my own LCA's at a fixed length of 16.5", relocate my rear shock mounts, replace front shocks with some longer travel/longer ext length ones, relocate front brake lines, install wrangler rear brake hose, and pray it all works together.

Any suggestions on what I may be forgetting would be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

Cool. I have also assembled my own suspension system using a mix of parts, S10 springs rather than MJs though. All told, it seems to work better than a lot of vehicles I have been in that were lifted with a "kit".

Looks like you have a pretty good plan of action. I might recommend a rear brake hose from a 96 Dodge Dakota, gives you a few more inches over the Wrangler I think.

Also, it sounds as though you have some fab ability....are you opposed to relocating the shackle mount? I am using the XJ main leaf, but moved the shackle mount forward about 3" and down about 2". Running a 6" long shackle, this gets me a nearly ideal 45 degree shackle angle. I built a somewhat flatter pack to end up at ~4" overall lift. With the long shackle at the correct angle, it flexes like crazy in the rear, and ride quality is quite good.

Point being, to make it *ideal* you need to move it either way, so if you like to fab stuff, why not move it down and back and use the longer MJ main leaf? Either way you go, have fun, and good luck!
 
Thanks a ton hillbilly, I am not completely opposed to building new shackle mounts, but am somewhat reluctant to weld on the thin "frame". I do have access to a wire feed welder, but still wonder about the durability of my own handy work on something such as that. Do you have any pics of your setup that may put my mind to ease? As long as you don't mind my copying your style....:farmer:
 
Actually I don't have pics at present. I went through a whole bunch of different spring/shackle combos to see what I liked best, and only got it "permanently" finished a few days ago. I should have some pics up of the whole deal in the next week or so.

I actually had some shackle relocation mounts that came with the Jeep. I'm not sure they were for the Jeep, but they're what I used haha. They went up into the shackle "box" and attached with the stock bolt, and covered the whole bottom of the box, with two ears to mount the shackle on the front. I went ahead and welded it in after deciding it worked well.

Here's a pic of them installed in the setup taht was on the Jeep when I got it. Please note, this came this way, I had nothing to do with this crazy/dangerous setup! haha

Picture005.jpg


The eye of the spring ended up almost where it is in this pic, but without the extra stock shackle. I don't know what that was all about.
 
I suppose that extra shackle would allow it to droop nicely.....Or uhhhhh?????

To be 100% honest, I am really pretty new to most of this 4wd tech. I understand most tech concerning drivetrains, and making things do what you want (theoretically) but most of my exp comes in stiffening chassis components so they don't flex. I spent some time trying to make a camaro handle like it was glued to the road, which involved limiting flex in most cases. Kinda weird I'm doing the opposite now.

I lack experience, but should be able to understand most tech, so please, dump it on me if you think I should know.
 
Heh, yeah, it dropped out nice. And wanted to unload under braking, all sorts of other weird issues.

Sounds like you got all the basics ocvered. I have a professional roadracing background and now build traditional 40s style hotrods for a living.....you have to take a lot of what you know suspension wise and reverse it, or something like that.
 
Well, I looked at it today, and the leafs on the mj don't have what I consider to be a lot of arch to them. My xj leafs are basically flat, and these mj's are somewhat arched, but not like s-10.... Does anyone KNOW if it is due to the fact that this is a 2wd mj?
 
If you cut the eyes off the MJ main leaf and try to install that entire pack onto your XJ main leaf it will sit Extremely high and be super stiff, i tried this the first go around. So i just took the MJ main leaf off and used (i think) the two springs that were under the MJ main with the XJ main and lower springs. Got about 4 to 4.5" of lift and rides pretty decent too. The only thing i worry about is the arc of the MJ pack putting excessive pressure on the old XJ main leaf, but its been good so far. Ill try to find a pic to show you what i mean.

Edit: an easier explanation would be just to remove the two springs directly under the XJ main and replace them with the same two springs out of the MJ pack.
 
Last edited:
Oh and the MJ packs i used were off of a 2wd and everything lined right up with the centering pin, just make sure to put the long side of the spring to the rear.

Here's some pics i took the other day at Gulches ORV park. You can kinda see how the pack is built.

SD530455.jpg


SD530430-1.jpg
 
I'm running 2wd MJ packs(they're about an inch shorter lift than 4x4 packs) with the eyes cut off with the XJ main leaf. I'm running an inch and a half shackle than puts me at about 4 1/2 inches lift. Rides descent with good flex and no axle wrap or sagging problems I was having with other packs.
 
Thanks for the responses. I am going to pull these MJ springs within the next few days, and have found some s-10 Blazer packs that I can pull for free too. I will be able to try multiple combinations of MJ, XJ, and S-10 springs to get the lift/flex/ride desired, so wish me luck. Hopefully I will be ending this thread with a link to a Bastard pack build thread with many photos and leaf choice descriptions.

One thing I have been thinking about is using a XJ top leaf, MJ top leaf, and S-10 top leaf, with one or two of the second leafs to make a 4-5 leaf pack that is mostly full length leaves. Could anyone tell me why this would be a good/bad idea?
 
Love2Ride450 said:
One thing I have been thinking about is using a XJ top leaf, MJ top leaf, and S-10 top leaf, with one or two of the second leafs to make a 4-5 leaf pack that is mostly full length leaves. Could anyone tell me why this would be a good/bad idea?
Click to expand...

You'll want a few of the shorter leaves as well. Shorter leaves will help with spring wrap.One of my good friends had a super flexy pack built with 4 long leaves, but it was wavy from spring wrap after only a year or so.
 
my bastard pack is as follows and gave me 5.5 inches of lift at first, settled to 5" now---xj main--2nd xj leaf--wrangler 2.5" lift main leaf with the eyes cut off--3rd xj leaf--3.5" add a leaf--last xj leaf--, has great flex, handles well, perfect arch, only thing id change is adding another leaf under the xj main that goes from xj eye to xj eye just to strengthen a spot i can see as a problem later on(i tow a small trailer with about 1-2000 pounds of scrap metal once in awhile, and i can see where the springs could sag/bend with that much weight behind it)
 
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