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94 4.0 starting/electrical issues.

OverlandZJ

OverlandZJ

NAXJA Member # 101
Location
Bristol,PA
I'v been having issues as of late. Follow along and help me out here.

Few weeks before Memorial Day i was driving and the rig just died. Replaced CPS, did not fix the issue...turned out to be the ignition coil.

Also around that time i add the AutoPal E-Code headlights in a 55/65 flavor. Everything was fine.

Left for a camping trip and headlights went out enroute, replaced the headlight switch and then had lights again.

Started experiencing weak starts, as in low voltage to the starter. Also noticed intermittent low voltage reading on the gauge. Replaced Alternator.

Still experiencing weak starts. Last friday i went for an interview, rig sat for two hours. Came out...no start, just the solenoid click. Went and picked up a new battery...no change.

Tow the rig home and replace the starter this am with one i had on shelf...it is a known good starter and not much mileage on it. Rig started although still weakly. Ran the Jeep up to temp keeping the RPM's around 1500, shut down and attempted restart...very weak. Shut down and again attempt to restart..then nothing...

I check codes and nothing. Attempt to start and it starts again..weakly.

Battery cables look clean with good connections. I have experienced NSS (N to start) issues in the past. Could the NSS possibly be related to a weak start? Any other ideas?
 
Hey there John!

It has been my experience that the NSS is go/no go proposition. It may come and go...but not a weak start.

Man, you have done just about everything I could think of. Might use the ground side of a set of jumper cables and connect only the ground/black cable to the negative side of the battery cable and the other end to good ground and try to start it. That would tell you if it is in your ground/negative cable.

Other that that....the only thing I could think of is to start 'undoing' your changes in an attempt to isolate the problem.

Sorry I am not more help here.

Good talking to you.

John B said:
I'v been having issues as of late. Follow along and help me out here.

Few weeks before Memorial Day i was driving and the rig just died. Replaced CPS, did not fix the issue...turned out to be the ignition coil.

Also around that time i add the AutoPal E-Code headlights in a 55/65 flavor. Everything was fine.

Left for a camping trip and headlights went out enroute, replaced the headlight switch and then had lights again.

Started experiencing weak starts, as in low voltage to the starter. Also noticed intermittent low voltage reading on the gauge. Replaced Alternator.

Still experiencing weak starts. Last friday i went for an interview, rig sat for two hours. Came out...no start, just the solenoid click. Went and picked up a new battery...no change.

Tow the rig home and replace the starter this am with one i had on shelf...it is a known good starter and not much mileage on it. Rig started although still weakly. Ran the Jeep up to temp keeping the RPM's around 1500, shut down and attempted restart...very weak. Shut down and again attempt to restart..then nothing...

I check codes and nothing. Attempt to start and it starts again..weakly.

Battery cables look clean with good connections. I have experienced NSS (N to start) issues in the past. Could the NSS possibly be related to a weak start? Any other ideas?
Click to expand...
 
Hey Chip..

I have the batt charging with cables disconnected.

I have a suspicion that i have a bad headlight bulb drawing off the batt. It might be what killed the headlight switch, or the alt going could have fried both. I'm going to unplug the E-Codes and see if anything changes.

Thats what i thought with the NSS as well.
 
OK, it's hot as hell outside but i'm managing to check some things.

Bypassed neg batt cable...bright lights but stone dead still.

Bypassed positive cable...connected to large post on solenoid..no change.

Bypassed positive cable...connected to small post on solenoid...slight welding of cable to pos terminal on batt? Did not leave this connected and test start. Does this indicate a short?

Swapped around relays in power dist box (with relays of same part#...namely fuel pump, A/C, and starter...no change still no start.

Checked fuses in dist box, all look good.

Autopal headlights disconnected. no change.

I'm no longer getting a "click"...just stone dead.

I'm going to search on bypassing the NSS.

Any help much appreciated. I'm not much with electrical and i'v done everything i can possibly think of. I could sure use some guidance here.

PS: always testing for start in P and N.
 
Did you try bypassing positive straight to the starter wire out of the solenoid?
That would eliminate NSS and solenoid in one test.
Maybe the contacts in it are pitted beyond use.
It WILL spit and spark when using jumpers until it digs in enough to turn the starter....
Maybe the NSS and solenoid are both giving you trouble.
Have someone move the shifter while you listen for at least the click.
That would be par for your luck lately..
You sure have had your share of head banging crap.
Are ya living right? :laugh3:
 
Last edited:
cygnus58 said:
Did you try bypassing positive straight to the starter wire out of the solenoid?
Maybe the contacts in it are pitted beyond use.
It WILL spit and spark when using jumpers until it digs in enough to turn the starter....
Maybe the NSS and solenoid are both giving you trouble.
Have someone move the shifter while you listen for at least the click.
That would be par for your luck lately..
You sure have had your share of head banging crap.
Are ya living right? :laugh3:
Click to expand...


This is a 2nd known good starter...with no change. I did not attempt to brigde the posts on solenoid...should i?

Yeah, i have had my share lately...do i know you or are you stalking?! :laugh3:
 
Just read your post. If there is more than that, hats off to ya..
Yea, bridge the solenoid.
I grant you it is sorta dangerous, but will tell you much right now.

I'm saying the solenoid could have bad contacts, and if the NSS is intermittent also, it would really get weird figuring it out.
 
I'm going to attempt a cleaning and adjustment of the NSS tonight or tomorrow.

One other issue i noticed, when key is turned to start position the temp gauge pegs to full right on the scale. Never noticed that before.
 
keep us informed and stay cool..
never noticed my temp guage at "on" either.
I know the oil pressure reads max until the sending unit starts to
clamp the circuit to ground under pressure...
that doesn't sound related tho'.
If you rebuild NSS and it does have a problem, you should be back to the click, weak start problem.
Still think you should bypass the solenoid, my two cents.
 
Last edited:
cygnus58 said:
keep us informed and stay cool..
never noticed my temp guage at "on" either.
I know the oil pressure reads max until the sending unit starts to
clamp the circuit to ground under pressure...
that doesn't sound related tho'.
If you rebuild NSS and it does have a problem, you should be back to the click, weak start problem.
Still think you should bypass the solenoid, my two cents.
Click to expand...

I bench tested the starter and solenoid before installing it, same issues after installation. That tells me both new and old were fine. Unless i'm missing something?

Started to pull the NSS, i broke the fawker. I'm done for the day...
 
Didn't know about the bench test, sorry.
And I heard those damn NSS break easily.
one step at a time then..
 
Took a hammer to the starter...she started slow. WTF?

Why would a starter check out on the bench by grounding and hitting it with batt power not work in the vehicle?
 
Talked to Dad, retired Diesel Tech...

The starter has bad brushes, with the load on the bendix drive from the flexplate it doesnt have the power to turn the engine over. This explains the sometimes dead sometimes click.

Off to AutoZone in the am.
 
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