My AX-15, will it live?

[ChuckD]

My Ax-15 has about 135-140k on it, new clutch and slave cylinder at about 115k. I finally changed out the GL5 I had in there for about a year. Now it has the GL3, straight from the dealer.

Anyway, having a bit of trouble shifting,slight grinding when getting on it and when I changed to oil, on the drain plub it had a 1/8" layer of silver residue, only found a few very small metal slivers on the magnet of the drain plug.

Contributing factors:

1. Maybe from my 1" drop (which will be fixed as soon as I get my SYE on)

2. GL5 took a toll on my syncros

3. It's just plain worn out.

What can I do as far as rebuilding it? I have zero tranny expierence. How much time and money would I be looking at. Is it a simple transmission to work on. I have a good friend who has rebuild Autos and Manuals before.

[frsno jeeper]

HEY!
I have the fsm for the ax15 if you need to use it.
Lemme know

[ChuckD]

Thats a start, do you have an AT or MT?

[frsno jeeper]

my junk is auto,but when i bought my fsm they sent me both.

[ChuckD]

What year?

[frsno jeeper]

89.
did they change?

[Eagle]

Chuck --

If all you're getting is some minor grinding when you shift, look into adding a molybdenum disulfide compound. JC Whitney used to sell a product called Gear Moly, which I've been running in my Pewgoat 5-speed for years. It takes the place of the extreme pressure additives that GL-5 has and GL-3 doesn't have.

Whitney doesn't sell the stuff any more and the only source I know of for that particular product is a wholesaler -- I'd have to buy a gallon for $116 to get a pint that will last me for 50,000 miles. (I may do it anyway, that's how much I like the stuff.)

I would not be surprised if the special assembly lube sold for camshaft installations contains moly, and I've been intending to look into mixing a slug of assembly lube into some gear oil to see how it works. Or if you can find another source for a molydenum disulfide lube additive, try it.

[dan f.]

eagle, my brother has been getting into machining and i've been hearing about molybdenum disulfide a bit lately. could a bit of it from a machining application be added to the lube? a friend has an old bottle of stuff called "MOLY DEE" that works wonders, could this be a possible route? i would like to rid myself of gl-5 and this might be a good path to take. thanks a lot, this thread really interests me.
dan f.

[ChuckD]

Anyone up for a group buy on the molybdenum disulfide, The tranny only takes just over three quarts.

Eagle, how much do you add to your Pewgoat, :)

Also, the hard shifting didn't happen all of a sudden, it's been slowly getting worse and worse. I didn't expect the GL3 to solve my problems either, I'm thinking the drop Tcas and maybe a shortshifter mod might be in order. I'll post on the Mod board about the Hurst Shifter and see what comes up.

Thanks all, :)

[Ghost]

Couple questions. (I by no means am an expert at trannys but have an AX-5 open in my shop and I bought one that had trouble shifting to rebuild and put in my jeep. Mine is popping out of first.) Ok is it haveing trouble in all gears or just certain ones? What kind of clutch did you use? OEM? NAPA? Etc. And has it been under strain since you put the clutch in? IE: burning the clutch when engaging?

[ChuckD]

I was in a bind when my slave cyilinder went out. I was in Texas at the time and needed my junk fixed quickly. I took it to the loacl dealer in Witchita Falls. I paid about $800 for new clutch cylinder and labor. Also had a 1yr warrenty. I got quotes from Fresno to see if it was legit. Fresno quoted me $1200 for the same work and parts.

My problems started about 1-1.5 years later, with that I added 31's then 33's. 4.10 Diffs and a rear locker. More lift and then the Tcase Drop. I noticed it the most with the Tcase drop, but it wouldn't grind just a little harder to slip into gear.

[Eagle]

When I bought the Gear Moly it came in a small bottle, maybe 6 ounces or 8 ounces. I dumped in the whole bottle. I talked to the distributor in Atlanta a year ago and I think he told me the recommeded dose is 5% of the capacity of the tranny or diff.

BTW -- have you tried double-clutching, especially on downshifts? It isn't "supposed" to be necessary with a synchromesh tranny, but I was taught to drive by a grandfather who grew up in the days before they had such things, and I've owned cars with completely non-synchro trannies. So I always double-clutch, and I think it helps the synchros live longer. In cold weather I also either double-clutch from 1st to 2nd, or I "grannY' shift into second (just barely rolling, and ease it in as gently as possible -- not recommended on a busy highway!).

[ChuckD]

Eagle that's ~ .20 of a pint per oil change. If we get four of us and split up gallon that's only about $15 for a pint + shipping. Even one pint would be overkill, unless you like underwater sports. What do you think? I'm willing to front it, and then sell it on the classifieds. Can I count you in for some. Also where do I get it from?

[Lawn Cher']

I found some!

http://www.mrmoly.com/gear-aide.html

[Lawn Cher']

The next logical question is whether use of their Engine-Aide is recommended or not. Any thoughts?

[ChuckD]

Who's up for a group buy? If we get a case of 12, that's $11 per treatment.

[Lawn Cher']

I'm interested... I have 2 vehicles that could use it, and I'd be willing to buy the case for distribution.

[ChuckD]

Ok, when you get it, post on the classifieds and how much you want to sell it for. I'm in for two bottles.

FYI, I took a look at a bottle of RedLine for Mannual tranny's. It specifically says it does not have the GL5 lubricant and states that the GL5 would shorten the life of you syncros. It is GL4 compliant, I don't know if that has any harmful effects or not.

[Ghost]

[QUOTE]Ok is it haveing trouble in all gears or just certain ones? QUOTE]

Are 3rd and 4th harder than the rest? Or are they all hard to shift?

[Rev Den]

Only 140K.....it ain't even broken in yet.....ride her till she bucks ya and then fix it.

Rev (210K on the orig 5 spd)

[Ghost]

Yea but did you always use the right oil? Chuck said he did not and ran the wrong stuff for about a year.

[ChuckD]

Ya REV, ;)

[Rev Den]

Nope...never ran the wrong lube....but I stand by my original statement.

Rev

[Eagle]

Redline I think is supposed to be one of the only synthetics that are safe for use with brass/bronze synchros. Most are rated GL-5.

The research MJR did a few weeks ago suggested that Jeep made some changes, because for several years 80W90 GL-5 was the recommended lubricant for the AX-15 tranny. Then one day ... it wasn't. (Or maybe I have it reversed.) Dunno what was changed, and I don't recall if MJR ever found out.

I haven't been able to find a GL-4 gear lube anywhere. I wonder if you mixed equal parts of GL-3 and GL-5 would it be the same as GL-4?

I just ordered a gallon of the stuff from the guy in Atlanta. (The gear lube is sold in gallons -- there's an engine version that comes in bottles, I think.) He said the recommended dose is 1:10. I will ask him if he thinks the way to go is to run GL-3 and add this stuff.

My problem now is that I don't remember what I used in the Pewgoat. Probably whatever the dealer recommended, and I think that might be GL-5 but not sure.

[ChuckD]

Originally posted by Rev Den
Only 140K.....it ain't even broken in yet.....ride her till she bucks ya and then fix it.

Rev (210K on the orig 5 spd)


At what point did you modify your XJ, I only had the problem with the slave cylinder before I started with the bigger tires and such. I got the new clutch, because at that point it would have only cost me the extra in parts.

I'm trying to figure out the life expectancy, I don't want to be in the middle of nowhere with a busted tranny, and then become someone's trailer.

But, otherwise your comments are extremely helpful, :D

[Rev Den]

Modifing started in 92, soon as the warrenty ran out. I am on my 4th slave, the 1st 3 leaked almost as soon as they went in (Old style - no bellows) The 4th (with bellows) has been fine.
Dont get me wrong....if you feel you cannot depend on it...fix it, it is not worth the stress it will cause you if you don't..no matter what we say.
This all said......in my 5sp, (AX-15 I think) I have run the gear lube I grabbed off the shelf at the parts store, 75-90 cheap stuff and change it every 30-35K, could not tell you if it is GL-3 or 4 or 5. In my experiance a manual will not fail all at once, you almost always have at least 1 gear to get it to move, may not be smooth or perfect, but it usally won't strand you.
Eagle and Ghost are FAR more knowledgable than me on this and many other topics, so I would take thier advice very seriouslly.

Good luck
Any spelling errors are the result on internet congestion. Unfactual information cannot be attributed to the poster.

Rev

[Jes]

Originally posted by Eagle
Redline I think is supposed to be one of the only synthetics that are safe for use with brass/bronze synchros. Most are rated GL-5.

The research MJR did a few weeks ago suggested that Jeep made some changes, because for several years 80W90 GL-5 was the recommended lubricant for the AX-15 tranny. Then one day ... it wasn't. (Or maybe I have it reversed.) Dunno what was changed, and I don't recall if MJR ever found out.



My owner's manual(1993) states 79W90 GL-5 or equivelent and I've always wondered if that was right or not. I'm using Redline MTL now but I'm wondering if that is alright or not.
I'm confused now.

Jes

[ChuckD]

From Redline:

Red Line MTL is classified as a 70W80 gear lubricant satisfying the API Service requirements of GL-3 and GL-4. MTL also satisfies motor oil viscosities SAE 5W/10W/30, and the viscosity requirements for ATFs. MT-90 is a 75W90 GL-4 and also satisfies motor oil viscosities SAE 10W/15W/40. The additive chemistry used is non-corrosive, so even though they will provide GL-4 performance, they will not corrode synchros or bushings. Because of its low corrosivity, Red Line MTL and MT-90 could also be used in transmissions requiring GL-1 or GL-3 lubricants. Seal compatibility is designed to be similar to petroleum-based lubricants.


I think your A OK, Jes I have the same manual, from what I understand there is a misprint.

In that, anyone tell me if the silver gunk on the drain plug is something to worry about or just common wear metal?

[Eagle]

The synchros are brass and bronze, so any shavings from them should be yellow, not silver. I suspect what you see is normal -- it's almost impossible to have a bunch of gears twisting against each other and not have some wear.

Also remember that in a modern manual transmission, all gears are "constant mesh" -- they are all engaged, all the time. We are not actually shifting gears -- all we are doing is sliding a synchro collar to engage a different output shaft on a different gear. The gears themselves do not shift.

[ChuckD]

:cool:

[Lawn Cher']

I think I'd like to try a bottle of the moly stuff before investing in a case. I'm willing to be a guinea pig, though. I'll place a report here after I've determined any results.

[Mike in NJ]

You know, this is one Urban Legend(Gl-3 vs GL-5, misprint in FSM, or not) I'd sure like to see get solved - I know some great minds on both coasts have taken a crack at it, and we're still unsure.

I got a couple of AX-15's (201K and 91K) that would sleep a lot better at night. Although the only tranny that failed me was the good ole B/A-10 at 155K.

Mike in NJ :patriot:

[ChuckD]

Originally posted by Mike in NJ
You know, this is one Urban Legend(Gl-3 vs GL-5, misprint in FSM, or not) I'd sure like to see get solved - I know some great minds on both coasts have taken a crack at it, and we're still unsure.

I got a couple of AX-15's (201K and 91K) that would sleep a lot better at night. Although the only tranny that failed me was the good ole B/A-10 at 155K.

Mike in NJ :patriot:

I don't think we may never know the truth, but even Redline mentions the effects of GL5 on syncros and bushings. I say for now, use the Redline or Mil Spec from the dealer.

Eagle are you willing to split up your gallon? I wouldn't mind buying about two quarts from you. If not, I'm going to get a case of MR Moly, then sell off the rest. Has anyone searched Ebay for the Mr Moly?

[Lawn Cher']

I searched for moly and came up with a supply of stuff intended for diesel engines. I suppose Ebay would be a good place to sell it, but I don't see the ability to turn a profit based on the per case price from Mr Moly themselves versus being able to buy it directly per bottle.

[ChuckD]

I'm not looking at making any money, I'll sell it at cost +/- a few cents. I mentioned Ebay, just to see if anyone else found another product simular to Mr Moly. Also I can't use Ebay at work so i was hoping someone would have checked it for me. I did find this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3235553091&category=413

We can mix our own, maybe call it NAXJA Gear Juice, just kidding, anyway. I think I'll go ahead and get a case, if you want some of it let me know. Unless Eagle, decides to divi up his gallon, :D

[Eagle]

I'll be happy to split up my gallon. I need to figure how much I need for my "fleet," and anything beyond that is up for grabs. I was a bit surprised when the guy told me the mix is 10%, because the one bottle I still have of Gear Moly says 5%. It leaves me wondering if I'm actually getting the same thing, but there's only one way to know.

Who or what is Mr. Moly?

[ChuckD]

Same as your stuff, different label. Packaged in smaller quantities.

[jamnxj]

i looked on his website yesterday and got a phone number. i called him and it was a cell phone, some guy picked up, it was really loud and i could not hear him very good he said it was a bad time because he was in his car. said to call him today.
-but i am interested in getting a bottle also or getting some off you, Eagle.

i might try to give him a call back today- if someone gets any of the moly let me know how it works and if the have any extra to sell

[Neil]

Chuck, kind of sounds to me like the whole rig is toast. Once the tranny goes you might as well throw the whole rig in the crusher. Oh... after you are done at the crusher you can drop that sye and locker off at my place... I'd hate to see them go to waste.

[ChuckD]

I can always count on Neil, to help a fella out, :D

[Judd W. VA]

Consider this- A number of Japenese car manufacturers require GL-3 spec trans lube in many of their transmissions, Nissan as one example. Since the AX-15 is also Jap made, it would make sense could require the same.

Frankly, i am not sure how Moly would work in these transmissions. Ordinarily they seem very durable with the standard recommended lube and an occasional change. As used as a 'patch', only it's use could really tell the outcome.

[ChuckD]

Eagle has already given his testimony of the stuff, I'm not saying that Eagle knows what he talking about, but at this point a $20 patch or experiment sounds like the best solution for now. The only other option is to rebuild or swap in a low mileage or different tranny. So far a used AX-15 is around $500 on the low side, I haven't priced a rebuild kit, but I would say $500 for parts could be close. I'd rather try the $20 moly and maybe put in some RedLine if that doesn't make a difference.

[Ghost]

That all bepends on what is wrong Chuck. If it is grinding the same on all gears then the oil you ran could have toasted all the sychro's about the same. But, if it is grinding more in some gears but less in others then I would say certain sychro's are wearing out faster. And if it is the sychro's no amount of addative will fix it. By the way the sychros are 16.95 ea. at 4WD Hardware. The bearing and seal kit are about $100.00 so if you don't let it go any longer as to damage other components and it is just the sychros then a conservative estimate would be $200 for you to redo it. Food For Thought.