please criitique my cage.......

I wanted to post this before I finished welding everything....but I was home from school for a week....forgot the digi camera connection to upload the pics, and couldn't leave it unfinished....do right now it's all welded up, but what in the pics is what there is.

gussets....I kidna forget about ordering them, but they will be added, or I will just use tubing....is one better than the other?

Frame connection is coming fr the front two hoops. I will be making new rockers, and all that jazz....as of now it's not there.

The front hoop has a 45* bend in it, I don't know what I was thinking when I bent it, but I'm thinking it will be fine.

Rear hoop is welded to 1/8" plate welded to the floor. Don't know why I didn't use bigger plate, but I'm not worried about it back there, I will change it if you guys think it's a huge problem...the 2 front hoops are on 1/4", plus being attached the the frame (when I get to it)

ok....sooo pretty much what do I need to add, if anything? I will be headed home next weekend to work on it some more.

and yes, I did drop it through the floor to get full welds.

To me, even though I'm just a newb when it comes to all this stuff, it looks like it's lacking a connection to the frame. And maybe some triangulation to the center tranny bulge. I'm basing that on C-rok's design which I just observed on my own. I dunno if it helps, but otherwise, the cage looks great and well fitted. Good luck with it

yeah, looks like a pretty good, basic internal cage, I would just use the same size tubing or maybe a little smaller if you want for the gussets, I wouldn't do little metal gussets just because I like the look of tube gussets better. I would maybe drill holes through that 1/8th inch plate and bolt another plate of a different size underneath the jeep to spread the load out over the sheetmetal. If you where to roll really hard your1/8th inch plate might just shoot right through the floor because of some weak spots made from the welding process. With a different sized plate underneath it might spread out the load more? just an idea but......
-cal

props to you for triangulating an internal cage.

nice!

Beezil said:

props to you for triangulating an internal cage.

nice!

Click to expand...

it must be good then, if only i will be so lucky when i tackle mine

nice job

xjj33p3r said:

To me, even though I'm just a newb when it comes to all this stuff, it looks like it's lacking a connection to the frame. And maybe some triangulation to the center tranny bulge. I'm basing that on C-rok's design which I just observed on my own. I dunno if it helps, but otherwise, the cage looks great and well fitted. Good luck with it

Click to expand...

you may be a newb...but you should've read my post!!!! and not just look at the pictures!!!

The tranny buldge takes more work. It will give better geometrical features(3 triangles), but it's a much weaker base to begin with....needs a bit of reinforcement. With this set-up, the force from the diagonal will go straight to the frame (once I make the conenction) rather than depend on the floor to take the force. So I went the easier way out.

calvin...the under plate can be very easily added...not sure why I completely neglected that. ok, 1 thing new to do......anything else?

gearwhine said:

you may be a newb...but you should've read my post!!!! and not just look at the pictures!!!

The tranny buldge takes more work. It will give better geometrical features(3 triangles), but it's a much weaker base to begin with....needs a bit of reinforcement. With this set-up, the force from the diagonal will go straight to the frame (once I make the conenction) rather than depend on the floor to take the force. So I went the easier way out.

calvin...the under plate can be very easily added...not sure why I completely neglected that. ok, 1 thing new to do......anything else?

Click to expand...

You know, I'm really sorry about not reading the post with more attention. If I usually don't know much about a subject, whatever I read kind of just goes over my head since I don't understand a lot of the terms. But I guess this will be how I learn

looks good gearwhine... wanna come build mine next?

John :farmer:

i think it looks good you can always improve on what you have done arty:

xjj33p3r said:

You know, I'm really sorry about not reading the post with more attention. If I usually don't know much about a subject, whatever I read kind of just goes over my head since I don't understand a lot of the terms. But I guess this will be how I learn

Click to expand...

apology accepted

nice cage! I have a cage in mine similar to yours but not the triangulation though. the only thing that I would do different is the hoop behind the driver and pass seats would be set back further away from my head. mine is in about the same spot as yours (as far as i can see) I would put in back in the rear seating more and keep it away from my melon. i rarely carry passengers so it wouldn't matter of the space it takes up. i added roll bar padding I would suggest the same. my .02cents

yeah, the rear hoop placement made me think a little. I wanted it as far back as I could get....but then...I wanted the triangulation...and the rear seat back folded down.

As it lays now...the back seat needs to be pounded (the back of it is metal) to shape around the diagonal. Right now it won't fold down flat. Without the diagonal, this wouldn't be a problem at all.

I put all my cargo up front there on the seat back rather than far back since my springs are on the pretty f'in soft side, so having it lay flat is something I need.

My head is disposable...I'm not worried about that.

Padding is coming for the important places. I'm a tall freak (well, not really... 6' 3") my head hits the front side spreaders already. Bending the spreaders up like some do still wouldn't have helped, so I made that easy on myself and kept them straight. I'm just waiting for the point I want to get racing seats...then I'll drop the seats lower.

what kind of bender did you use?

John

xjj33p3r said:

To me, even though I'm just a newb when it comes to all this stuff, it looks like it's lacking a connection to the frame.

Click to expand...

How in the hell can you tell from the pictures that it doesn't connect to the frame???

lobsterdmb said:

what kind of bender did you use?

John

Click to expand...

JD2 model 3....manually

SeanP said:

How in the hell can you tell from the pictures that it doesn't connect to the frame???

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because it's an xj, and therefore doesn't have a frame. Jeez.

looks good to me- looking to make my own cage here soon...

gearwhine said:

gussets....I kidna forget about ordering them, but they will be added, or I will just use tubing....is one better than the other?

Frame connection is coming fr the front two hoops. I will be making new rockers, and all that jazz....as of now it's not there.

The front hoop has a 45* bend in it, I don't know what I was thinking when I bent it, but I'm thinking it will be fine.

Rear hoop is welded to 1/8" plate welded to the floor. Don't know why I didn't use bigger plate, but I'm not worried about it back there, I will change it if you guys think it's a huge problem...the 2 front hoops are on 1/4", plus being attached the the frame (when I get to it)
ok....sooo pretty much what do I need to add, if anything? I will be headed home next weekend to work on it some more.
and yes, I did drop it through the floor to get full welds.

Click to expand...

the cage looks fine for surviving most offroading rollovers.
HOWEVER if you wish to increase chassis stiffening and xj re-usability after a rollover, then here are some good, easy to do tips.
-tie gussets into the seatbelt mounts by running a thick tab off it with a hole to put the bolt thru to screw it back where it belongs. there could be some tack welds around the tab to the unibody to increase load distribution. on your b piller, if you take that trim peice off, there is another threaded hole above the seatbelt hole. the existing rear belt mounts work good too. you can cut out the trim peice to fit it really cleanly, too, and with padding over it (like i know you're gonna do, right-?) you will never ever see it.

-gussets are key. period. the more the better. they also can be oversized (and straight) and double as grab handles. to tie your cage into the frame you have several options. you can take extra tubing and wide angle iron with holes drilled in it for plug welds and make short diagionals from your bottom plates to the uniframe. or make your own rocker guards and tie those into the above.

-don't rule kicker bars out just because of the seat thing. from the top of the middle hoop to halfway down on the rear hoop, and run another from where that kicker is behind the seat to the bottem of the rear hoop.

- a quality job is always evident in the finish work. put permatex sealer on the floor where you think you might have burned through. then vacuum out all the loose slag and clean the cage and any non-white sheetmetal with a washrag. let dry and apply a couple of coats of rattle paint. replace undercoating, too. now you not have to worry about premature rust or water getting trapped in the vehicle.:sunshine:

Not too shabby at all man. Not for a first try. Someone else already said it best... "you can always add more.".

I'd think about some triangulation along the sides particularly. Looks like you yanked the back seat for good anyway, so perhaps tying the bottom of the b pillar into the middle/top of the c pillar with a spreader? Same for the front door area as well, if you can deal with climbing over it when you get in.

Nice cage.

Thanks for some words after a year....haha..and the funnier thing is it looks exactly the same now as it did when I first posted this, so I still can do all the work I want on it.

The seat belt attachment I was looking into. I am looking at doing some type of roof sliders that go through the side of the roof...you feel both attachments are needed? It's easy enough to do the setabelt thing anyway...so whatever, I can do both.

Gussets, I have to order, I've been really lazy, and haven't ordered them in over a year, but they are going in. I'm just doing some stamped sheet gussets, and grab handles can go in seperately.

the rear diagonals...that's a thing i have been contemplating. The back seat is remaning functional, and is at the moment. Not sure how much worth it is... but I can at least fit one extra passenger if the need arises due to the mid diagonal. So, bottom of mid to rear is probably out, and it would look weird compared to top mid to rear anyway. I will stare at it later when i'm done with my other project and see what I come up with.

The front "leg protectors" are also an option. I've gotta see how much extra tubing I have. I know it's quite a bit.

padding...yes I am putting padding where my head and passengers head can contact. The mid diagonal is so far away from my head I don't need to worry about it, it's pushed way back.

thanks for a help, I will be back working on it in a few days. _nicko_