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Not sure what to believe

8

85Chief

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Central, Illinois
I went for an alignment the other day and they stated they could only preform 1/2 of it (adjusting the toe). They (Goodyear) said that I needed new ball joints.
I wanted a 2nd and 3rd opinion so I went to some other tire shops (not part of a chain of stores). I watched both of them check my ball joints and they said they were in perfect working order, but I need a new tie rod.

So I went back to Goodyear today and told them that 2 others places said I dont need ball joints, but rather a tie rod. His responce was that the other places probably dont check ball joints the same as we do. And he never said anything about my tie rod.

Should I believe the 2nd and 3rd places??? or what should I do?
 
You can check all of them yourself. Jack the entire front end off of the ground so both front tires are about 6 inches off the pavement. With your hands on the tires at 6 and 12 oclock, try with all of your strength to wiggle the wheels in and out. (push in at the top and pull out with the bottom and back and forth. If the tire can be wobbled at all, your ball joints are bad, and you can look at them and see the play, and know which one is bad. That is how to check the ball joints. For the tie rod, do the same, only at 3 and 9 oclock. Try to "steer" the wheels back and forth by hand. If you get any slop, you have a bad tie rod end or pitman joint, you will be able to see the play. Chances are, nothing is bad. All of these parts are very tough and will last a long time. Mine has 185,000 and none of those have been replaced. Good luck.
 
BornAgainXJer said:
They make adjustable ball joints so you can adjust the toe.
Click to expand...
Correction: They do make adjustable ball joints, but they aren't for adjusting the toe-in. Toe-in is adjustable by the tie rod. Adjustable ball joints are to correct camber, which is not otherwise adjustable on the XJ and MJ.
 
Eagle said:
Correction: They do make adjustable ball joints, but they aren't for adjusting the toe-in. Toe-in is adjustable by the tie rod. Adjustable ball joints are to correct camber, which is not otherwise adjustable on the XJ and MJ.
Click to expand...
Correct Eagle, i wasn't thinking :wstupid:
 
If two other places give you the same answer, but Goodyear gives you a completely different answer, I'd go with the other places. Did Goodyear say all 4 of the balljoints were junk? Usually the uppers are greaseable so they last longer (if they've been greased). I find it hard to believe that all 4 are bad. Plus they didn't diagnose the tie rod end. I'd find another shop. IMHO
 
Jackhill442 said:
With your hands on the tires at 6 and 12 oclock, try with all of your strength to wiggle the wheels in and out. (push in at the top and pull out with the bottom and back and forth. If the tire can be wobbled at all, your ball joints are bad, and you can look at them and see the play, and know which one is bad. That is how to check the ball joints.
Click to expand...

This is also how you check your hub bearings. So ... if you have play, you will want to make sure the problem is not there. Sometimes it's easier to feel the play rather than see it. To feel if there is any play, use a helper to wobble the tire while you grab the ball joint. You can do the same with TRE's.

Les
 
.

So I went back to Goodyear today and told them that 2 others places said I dont need ball joints, but rather a tie rod. His responce was that the other places probably dont check ball joints the same as we do. And he never said anything about my tie rod.

Should I believe the 2nd and 3rd places??? or what should I do?[/QUOTE]
if you went for a 2nd and third opinion. im sure they checked ball joints if you requested it. they have nothing to lose by being honest. techs at places like goodyear, merchants, etc. make commission on parts as well as on labor on the work they perform. thats why they try to upsell stuff like that. how can you dispute their diagnosis, if you authorize the repair and the parts are destroyed upon removal. second opinions never hurt. never feel pressured to get any repair done, if they are pushy, they are probably full if it.
if you didnt hear or feel any abnormal knocking noises over bumps the ball joints are probably ok.
 
Hey, Thanks a lot guys! Im going to go ahead and go with the 2nd shop, and forget about Goodyear. My dad hasnt had good experiences there either. Thanks for the advice, It came in handy.
 
another tip, always ask to see or have the old parts back. if they try to come up with some excuses as to why you cant see your old parts, than the place is prolly shady.

there will be some exceptions but you can still look at them before you leave, such as master cyl, brake boosters, PS pumps, calipers. those will all have core charges. if someone tries to say there is a core charge on a TRE or balljoint, than they are yanking your chain.

also wagner and raybestos does not buy back brake shoe cores anymore, they stopped about a year and a half ago. they found its cheaper to outsource to china, rather than remanufacture the cores. those are the two leading manufacturers in brakes. the store i worked at just stopped collecting the cores all together. it was more of a hassle because all we were going to do was throw them away anyway.
 
My limited experience with bad ball joints is that they will rarely go all at once, and that despite being greasable, it will be uppers that go first (because they're the ones that bear the load, at least on an XJ). Even if they pass the wobble test, you might also try jacking up a wheel just a few inches, then levering up on the tire. Look at the grease seal area of the ball joint. There should be no up-down movement at all.

But if Goodyear is suggesting you need a whole set, I'm willing to bet they're full of.....ummmm...something other than wisdom and honesty.
 
Arakele said:
another tip, always ask to see or have the old parts back. if they try to come up with some excuses as to why you cant see your old parts, than the place is prolly shady.

ALSO it is your legal right to inspect the old parts. They should have this posted at the shop being Good(?)year...

So unless you tell them to throw them away...THEY CANT.
Click to expand...
 
if you can make some sort of mark on the part before you take your xj, so you know its yours.
If you want something done right just do it yourself.
 
As for checking ball joints using the tire wiggle test, I find this about useless unless the ball joints are severely worn. Instead, jack up the front end, or one front tire at a time, and put a long pry bar between the tire and the ground. Using the bar try to pry the tire up. If there's play in the ball joints you will notice it.
 
Arakele said:
there will be some exceptions but you can still look at them before you leave, such as master cyl, brake boosters, PS pumps, calipers. those will all have core charges. if someone tries to say there is a core charge on a TRE or balljoint, than they are yanking your chain.
Click to expand...
There should not be ANY exceptions without pre-agreement. If they are returning the old part for a core charge, that means they are using rebuilt parts. You should ask up front if the quote they are giving you is for new parts or rebuilts. Probably doesn't play out this way, but IMHO unless they specify rebuilt up front, you are entitled to expect and to receive NEW parts.
 
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