Engine help please

PWRDrill · May 31, 2004

I have a faint but distinctive sound of "marbles rattling in a jar" coming from the front of my oil pan under where the main crank pulley is. I also notice that the crank pulley is nearly, if not touching the oil pan on the passenger side while the driver side has a nice gap. I also notice a VERY slight wobble in the pulley. I found this while fixing my overheat problem (I fixed that).

Does anybody have experience with this or could perhaps throw me some ideas as to what this might be? I like to do things myself to learn; so how hard will this be to fix? I know very little about engines in general, although I am very capable and a fast learner.

Anyone?

Kevin

Dr. Dyno · May 31, 2004

The crank pulley/harmonic balancer is a two piece item and in between the two pieces is a layer of rubber that holds them together. When the pulley gets old, the rubber breaks down and the outer part of the pulley either moves outwards towards the radiator or inwards eating into the timing cover. The cure is to replace it with a new item. DON'T get a used one from a junkyard.

RichP · Jun 1, 2004

And do it quick before it eats thru the timing cover and you have replace that also.

PWRDrill · Jun 1, 2004

Thanks guys! I'll get on it in the morning. Hopefully I can get it locally.

Kevin

PWRDrill · Jun 1, 2004

Should I be looking to replace the rubber seal only? Is it a common enough item to get at NAPA or AZ? Where can I get a Vibration Damper Removal Tool 7697, and is it necessary?

Kevin

old_man · Jun 1, 2004

It is a unit replacement thing. The rubber is molded into the part. Forget the fancy factory tool. Borrow this from Autozone.

http://www1.autozone.com/servlet/Ui...ool/pullers_specialized/harmonic_balancer.jsp

PWRDrill · Jun 1, 2004

Thank you!!!

Kevin

Eagle · Jun 1, 2004

The front main seal is accessible when the harmonic damper is removed. If you have enough miles on the engine that you need a new damper, I suggest that you replace the seal while you're doing the job.

Eagle · Jun 1, 2004

BTW --

When you remove the damper, it's "indexed" to the nose of the crankshaft with a Woodruff key. That's one of those little crescent-shaped things that fits into a slot milled into the crank. Be sure you don't lose that.

PWRDrill · Jun 1, 2004

Thanks for the heads up Eagle

Kevin

PWRDrill · Jun 2, 2004

Eagle said:
BTW --

When you remove the damper, it's "indexed" to the nose of the crankshaft with a Woodruff key. That's one of those little crescent-shaped things that fits into a slot milled into the crank. Be sure you don't lose that.

My new damper came with two Woodruff keys, but the original key is still on the crank. The FSM tells me to install one, but is there really a need? Can't I just use the one that's on the crank already? It hasn't come off.

Kevin

Matthew Currie · Jun 2, 2004

PWRDrill said:
My new damper came with two Woodruff keys, but the original key is still on the crank. The FSM tells me to install one, but is there really a need? Can't I just use the one that's on the crank already? It hasn't come off.

Kevin

A woodruff key should be reusable unless it's chewed up or worn, but in this application that's unlikely unless the pulley was loose enough on the shaft to wear the sides of the key (and if you needed a big puller it wasn't loose, was it?), or some previous mechanic damaged it on installation. If you have doubts, you can always use a new one. Just be careful to get it in so the top surface is parallel to the shaft, or it will jam and you will chew it up trying to put the pulley on.

PWRDrill · Jun 2, 2004

Well, I got it all together and it didn't fix my issue unfortunately. I still have the rattling sound (kinda sounds like when a bearing in an electric motor is going out) coming from the damper area. The damper is still cocked to one side and wobbles slightly in the same manner as before. I notice the bolt that holds the damper on is not wobbling from what I can tell, but I still have that sound.... any other ideas? It's not apparent unless you put your head under the bumper in the front. I compared it to the wife's expedition and her truck does not have that sound.

On a side note, I found the bolt that goes through the motor mount on the passenger side backed out and the nut was gone. Close one there!! I went to town tightening everything down after that. :anon:

Kevin

Sparkman · Jun 2, 2004

Sounds like a timing chain to me.

RichP · Jun 2, 2004

PWRDrill said:
Well, I got it all together and it didn't fix my issue unfortunately. I still have the rattling sound (kinda sounds like when a bearing in an electric motor is going out) coming from the damper area. The damper is still cocked to one side and wobbles slightly in the same manner as before. I notice the bolt that holds the damper on is not wobbling from what I can tell, but I still have that sound.... any other ideas? It's not apparent unless you put your head under the bumper in the front. I compared it to the wife's expedition and her truck does not have that sound.

On a side note, I found the bolt that goes through the motor mount on the passenger side backed out and the nut was gone. Close one there!! I went to town tightening everything down after that. :anon:

Kevin

Something is not right, if it still wobbles then it's either not on right or the wrong size, if the crank is not wobbling, the bolt is not wobbling and balancer is something is wrong. Sure you did not get the old one mixed up with the new one

S*it happens....

Tom R. · Jun 2, 2004

I had a bad water pump that made that sound, like marbles rattling around.

Tom

PWRDrill · Jun 2, 2004

RichP said:
Something is not right, if it still wobbles then it's either not on right or the wrong size, if the crank is not wobbling, the bolt is not wobbling and balancer is something is wrong. Sure you did not get the old one mixed up with the new one S*it happens....

It's the same size and diameter as the one I pulled off, and it was hard to mix up due to the fact that this one's all shiny and nicely painted

I double checked it at the parts store and checked it online as well before I went.

Tom R. said:
I had a bad water pump that made that sound, like marbles rattling around.
Tom

Could you hear the noise from the top of the engine? My noise is coming from underneath. Hard to tell but in the timing chain/damper area. Where you experiencing an overheat with yours Tom? I solved my overheat with a thermostat and that's what got all of this started.

I still don't understand why the damper is cocked to one side even with the new one. It's almost touching the timing chain cover on the passenger side. About a 2-3mm gap, while the other side has a nice gap. (I'm talking about the 3 and 9 o'clock positions of the damper).

When I put my hand on the oil pan in the front, I can feel the rattling. Any other ideas? What should I do to give it a good check? I'd like to figure this one out myself rather than take it in - will all of your help of course.

Kevin

Tom R. · Jun 3, 2004

The sound I heard was hard to pinpoint, really, but yes I could hear it from the top and also the bottom. The engine was heating up a bit more than usual and I noticed temp fluctuations on the temp gauge...a bit erratic. Coolant leaking from the pump weep hole shortly after the noise started sealed the deal. So far, your problem doesn't sound like the water pump. I haven't messed with the harmonic balancer, so can't offer any insight. Hope you find the problem.

Tom

RichP · Jun 3, 2004

I would pull the belt off, remove the spark plugs and lay under there and turn the engine over by hand on the end of the crank to figure out why that NEW harmonic balancer is wobbling, also to see if the noise is coming from the engine itself. Then spin the water pump and see how that does. Nothing should wobble thats for sure...

PWRDrill · Jun 3, 2004

RichP said:
I would pull the belt off, remove the spark plugs and lay under there and turn the engine over by hand on the end of the crank to figure out why that NEW harmonic balancer is wobbling, also to see if the noise is coming from the engine itself. Then spin the water pump and see how that does. Nothing should wobble thats for sure...

I did that already with nothing noticable. I doubt the water pump due to the fact that you can only hear it from underneath. The fan up top is enough to drown out any noise from what I'm hearing.

What kind of bearings do the timing chain run on? Is it something I could look at without some sort of major engine work?

My engine is a rebuild from the previous owner with around 200k on the body. No idea what's on the rebuild but it couldn't be too much. Is there anything that would cause the crank to be at a slight angle throwing my harmonic balancer at an angle? Would a main bearing problem give me what I'm seeing?

Kevin

Engine help please

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