Cracks, cracks, cracks....

[Goatman]

I must be the king of cracks. Even though I didn't get any cracks for a very long time, once they started I had a bunch. I think I've had cracks in every imaginable place on my XJ. Well, I've never had the rear floor or the rear frame rails crack apart...... :)

The newest version is a crack in the bottom of the frame just ahead of the upper control arm mount. Since I only have one upper control arm, this isn't surprising. I have noticed that the frame isn't quite strong enough for the single upper arm, at least for how I use it. The frame around the bolt head is distorting, and I plan to plate this area when the motor is out before the stroker goes in......and fix the crack at the bottom of the frame. The outside of the mount is very beefy, but the inside of the mount is the thin frame and it looks like it can't handle the load.

The other crack, and this is major, is in the rear shackle boxes. The fixed nut on the inside of the shackle box (rear springs, upper shackle mount) has ripped apart from the frame and pulled out on both sides. It appears that the only thing holding is the bolt tension through the outer wall of the box, and it is cracking.....not much, especially since I just got back from a Johnson Valley trip where we ran three trails in two days and I hauled ass across the desert having a blast, including going airborne with all fours.

Of course, I guess few rigs have seen the abuse this rig has seen. This Jeep got a 6" lift with gears and lockers 10 years ago, and I ran my first JV trail (Sledgehammer) 9 years ago, and a steady diet of hardcore trails continues. With the recently started habit of racing across the desert to and from the trails, the level of abuse has increased. The ONLY piece of suspension or mounts that hasn't been totally changed is the upper shackle boxes, so I guess it's over due.

This is probably a good thing to some degree. The only place where anything on the suspension still touches original steel (axle housings included) is in these two places.....inside of UCA mount and rear shackle box. With the new remote reservoir Sway-a-Ways going on, the bumpstops getting re-worked, and the 4.6L stroker going in, there's going to be plenty of fast desert running, plus the usual trails. Best to finish beefing things up.

[vintagespeed]

Rip that shackle box out, plate the framerail & build a new shackle hanger. Of course, I dont need to tell you that Goat.

To hyjack your thread, did ya see my finally really finished setup that actually works & is driveable? Maybe now I'll actually get to do some wheeling?

-jb

[Nay]

Who needs shackle boxes? Time to improve on the four link design. :variety:

Nay

[Goatman]

Rip that shackle box out, plate the framerail & build a new shackle hanger. Of course, I dont need to tell you that Goat.

To hyjack your thread, did ya see my finally really finished setup that actually works & is driveable? Maybe now I'll actually get to do some wheeling?

-jb

Yeah, I read about it and checked out the pics. It'd be nice to see some closeups of the upper arm. Glad to see that it's working and that you're happy to drive your Jeep again, I know a lot of work went into getting it all done. And, yes, now we need to see you out on the trail......you've missed a lot of great runs. :twak: :geek:

:D :D

Now it's my turn to miss out for awhile, but only till summer, with a trip to the dunes worked in there somewhere, and a speed run on a local trail to test the new shocks. I have a bunch of house/yard projects to work on, plus new shock mounts, a new motor, fixing cracks/mounts, finishing some additional work on the cage, and replacing my totally thrashed rock rails with some new ones. I'll be ready for the summer runs to the Sierra's.

[CRASH]

A shocking development.......not.

You know that I like how I boxed in mine and mounted the shackle below it. It flexes very well, and is very stout.

http://home.off-road.com/~xjs/temp/DCP00902.JPG

CRASH

[vintagespeed]

A shocking development.......not.

You know that I like how I boxed in mine and mounted the shackle below it. It flexes very well, and is very stout.

CRASH

Crash, how many inches lift did you gain by relocating the shackle? I need a couple inches in the rear (lol) and my shackle hits the back of the box anyway during stuff.

-jb

[CRASH]

1.5" inches or so. I use an MJ shackle. The plate is 3/8", the brackets are 1/4".

CRASH

[Goatman]

I may do something like that. I don't really want any more lift, my pinion angle is set perfectly as it is. A half inch wouldn't hurt anything, and I like all the up travel I can get. I may do that but cut the box down so the mount stays close to where it is now. I also don't want to loose any departure angle, since my spring is longer and the boomerang shackle puts the spring eye right under the bumper.

[Big Red]

Resurrected Thread:

If there are some cracks in the steering box area, will a C-Rok outer and inner kit be enough to cure this, or should the cracks be filled and ground flush to mount the plates? I'm looking at getting an xj with some cracks in the frame by the steering box from the guy rurning 39.5" TSL's without any steering mods and waggy dana 44 front 8 bolt pattern swap/14 bolt rear full width. Please advise. I haven't seen the jeep yet.
Troy

[xtremewlr]

Resurrected Thread:

If there are some cracks in the steering box area, will a C-Rok outer and inner kit be enough to cure this, or should the cracks be filled and ground flush to mount the plates? I'm looking at getting an xj with some cracks in the frame by the steering box from the guy rurning 39.5" TSL's without any steering mods and waggy dana 44 front 8 bolt pattern swap/14 bolt rear full width. Please advise. I haven't seen the jeep yet.
Troy

I would weld them up first and then mount the plates.

[BrettM]

I agree.

troy, what's with you and buying trading jeeps? why don't you just get one you like and keep it and wheel it? I wouldn't buy something used that has "custom" work done (unless done by a really good shop) cause then you're just dealing with someone elses problems from beating the crap outta it.

[Big Red]

I agree.

troy, what's with you and buying trading jeeps? why don't you just get one you like and keep it and wheel it? I wouldn't buy something used that has "custom" work done (unless done by a really good shop) cause then you're just dealing with someone elses problems from beating the crap outta it.

I bought a 89' xj from someone on Pirate and there is a guy with a very built xj that he wheeled and put some cracks in the frame by the steering bolts because he ran 39.5" tsl tires on it. He wants my 3" lifted xj with new 31" bft mt's for his built 87' xj with a waggy dana 44 arb 5.13 gears and a rear 14 bolt welded with 5.13 gears. The front has the leaf spring conversion and flexes like crazy he tells me. If the cracks are welded up, will they interfere with the C-Rok plates? I can also put on a MORE brace on it that I have on my 91' currently.

I buy and sell stuff for fun, trying to work my way up to more extreme stuff. The CJ I got I cannot keep, but the xj has about 12" lift and is smogged/reg in Cali. If I get it and fix it up, I'll sell my red 2 door 91' for about $5K or so. I really want an xj with a front dana 44 and am too cheap to pay to have 1 built so I traded my yj to get the built CJ and now a pretty mildly built xj for an extreme xj. I know I have a problem, my wife is getting tired of my obsession. :)
Troy

[xtremewlr]

If the cracks are welded up, will they interfere with the C-Rok plates? I can also put on a MORE brace on it that I have on my 91' currently.
Troy

You should grind out the cracks so that you can get a good bead in there and proper penetration. Once that is done, you should be able to grind them flush with the rest of the frame there and be able to mount the CROK plates without issues. The CROK plates wont fiit right with the weld beads unground.

the MORE brace is also a good idea.

[BrettM]

weld the cracks, grind them down, then weld on the SBS from JKS

the best way to get more extreme is to build it yourself. if you're wheeling junk that someone else built, not only do you not know the quality of the work, but you don't know how to fix it when it breaks.

I actually think I know the XJ you speak of, it's red right? and north of Sac, up towards Chico? that thing probably has a lot more cracks than the steering box. an XJ with 35s or bigger needs major uni-body reinforcement to run Sierra trails for any long period of time.

[Big Red]

weld the cracks, grind them down, then weld on the SBS from JKS

the best way to get more extreme is to build it yourself. if you're wheeling junk that someone else built, not only do you not know the quality of the work, but you don't know how to fix it when it breaks.

I actually think I know the XJ you speak of, it's red right? and north of Sac, up towards Chico? that thing probably has a lot more cracks than the steering box. an XJ with 35s or bigger needs major uni-body reinforcement to run Sierra trails for any long period of time.

Agreed. Thanks. You want a project for some $ when you're up here around Christmas Brett? I have a few friends that are good welders as well, 1 created an awesome looking toyota tube buggy. That's not the xj I was looking at. Is the 1 in Chico for sale. :) I have 4 jeeps now and don't need another 1, unless it is a trade. I agree with creating your own stuff and knowing how to work on it, but I live in a townhouse in CH and the assoc is always on my butt for my CJ in my garage and what not, they really suck, but what'd I expect? I should have bought a house. :mad:
Troy

[Kejtar]

weld the cracks, grind them down, then weld on the SBS from JKS
Isn't it a good idea to drill a small hole on the end of the crack and then welding it up and griding it down? Cause from what I remember reading if you're welding on the surface of the crack at the end you might end up not welding it up completely and it will start going again.

[Goatman]

I bought a 89' xj from someone on Pirate and there is a guy with a very built xj that he wheeled and put some cracks in the frame by the steering bolts because he ran 39.5" tsl tires on it. He wants my 3" lifted xj with new 31" bft mt's for his built 87' xj with a waggy dana 44 arb 5.13 gears and a rear 14 bolt welded with 5.13 gears. The front has the leaf spring conversion and flexes like crazy he tells me.

the xj has about 12" lift and is smogged/reg in Cali. If I get it and fix it up, I'll sell my red 2 door 91' for about $5K or so. I really want an xj with a front dana 44 and am too cheap to pay to have 1 built so I traded my yj to get the built CJ and now a pretty mildly built xj for an extreme xj. I know I have a problem, my wife is getting tired of my obsession. :)
Troy

Troy, this is personal opinion, and the advice is worth what you're about to pay for it, but there's no way that I would get rid of your XJ for one with full width axles and 12" of lift with front leaf springs.......NO WAY!!

That is NOT the way to get a rig with a D44 front axle.

:thumbdn:

[Goatman]

I must be the king of cracks. Even though I didn't get any cracks for a very long time, once they started I had a bunch. I think I've had cracks in every imaginable place on my XJ. Well, I've never had the rear floor or the rear frame rails crack apart...... :)



BTW, here's an update on this old thread. In the old post I said that I hadn't had any cracks in the rear floor. Well, I recently welded up a number of them.



continually on the lookout for more and more cracks.....despite the cage and frame reinforcements...........

:repair:

:repair:

:repair:

[Big Red]

Troy, this is personal opinion, and the advice is worth what you're about to pay for it, but there's no way that I would get rid of your XJ for one with full width axles and 12" of lift with front leaf springs.......NO WAY!!

That is NOT the way to get a rig with a D44 front axle.

:thumbdn:

I respect your advice very much Richard. I was hoping to hear from you. You're my hero. :) Really, if I do 1/4 of the trails you have done, I'll be happy.

The rig I'm looking at is a 87' 4.0L/aw4/231/waggy dana 44 with 8 lugs conv. arb 5.13 gears/14 bolt rear welded with 5.13 gears/12" lift with chevy leaf packs front and rear. I bought a 89' white laredo for cheap with 3" lift and brand new 31" bfg mt's with 231K miles, it still runs pretty good. I just replaced the bad coolant bottle but it took me 6 hrs to get it home from SF with the bad bottle. The guy wants to trade straight up for mine minus his radiator, arb comp, and steering pump. This jeep also have hydro steering setup and a very beefy crossover steering on the dana 44 with new shafts and u-joints, he blew both u-joints and is replacing them for me. I think it is a fair trade, if I do get it, I'll get the steering pump plumbed to run the hydro steer and get some 38" tsl sx tires I think or put the 37" mtrs from my CJ on it. He cleared 39.5" tsls on it, but is selling it with stock tires and rims from a f-250. What do you think? I know the axles alone with the crossover steering, and hydro etc are worth more than my 89'. He wants a commuter xj for the snow, he says. I'm taking a look at it this saturday. I was planning on getting the C-Rok inner and outer plates and putting my MORE steering brace from my 91' on it. What do you think? He says it maxes out his 5-1/2' ramp at work.
Troy

[Big Red]

ttt :)

[Goatman]

I respect your advice very much Richard. I was hoping to hear from you. You're my hero. :) Really, if I do 1/4 of the trails you have done, I'll be happy.

The rig I'm looking at is a 87' 4.0L/aw4/231/waggy dana 44 with 8 lugs conv. arb 5.13 gears/14 bolt rear welded with 5.13 gears/12" lift with chevy leaf packs front and rear. I bought a 89' white laredo for cheap with 3" lift and brand new 31" bfg mt's with 231K miles, it still runs pretty good. I just replaced the bad coolant bottle but it took me 6 hrs to get it home from SF with the bad bottle. The guy wants to trade straight up for mine minus his radiator, arb comp, and steering pump. This jeep also have hydro steering setup and a very beefy crossover steering on the dana 44 with new shafts and u-joints, he blew both u-joints and is replacing them for me. I think it is a fair trade, if I do get it, I'll get the steering pump plumbed to run the hydro steer and get some 38" tsl sx tires I think or put the 37" mtrs from my CJ on it. He cleared 39.5" tsls on it, but is selling it with stock tires and rims from a f-250. What do you think? I know the axles alone with the crossover steering, and hydro etc are worth more than my 89'. He wants a commuter xj for the snow, he says. I'm taking a look at it this saturday. I was planning on getting the C-Rok inner and outer plates and putting my MORE steering brace from my 91' on it. What do you think? He says it maxes out his 5-1/2' ramp at work.
Troy


Sorry, Troy, I just don't agree. A welded 14 bolt full width is worth about $100. A low pinion waggy D44 with 8 lug isn't worth much more, so all you're getting out of the deal is an ARB, and the guy isn't even going to give you the pump. The rig needs a lot of parts and work.....no steering pump, no tires, etc. Run away from this deal as fast as you can.

You would be much better off selling the '89 and using the money to buy a front HP D44 for your current XJ. Besides, unless that waggy D44 has alloy shafts and CTM, Ox, or Longfield axle joints, we wouldn't even let you run with us with that size tire.

Step back and think about........you're not really getting anything. Plus, do you really want to show up with a 12" lift, full width axle leaf sprung rig.........and suffer the certain ridicule. :gag:

:D :D

[XJ_ranger]

ttt :)
bad plan there...

[Big Red]

Sorry, Troy, I just don't agree. A welded 14 bolt full width is worth about $100. A low pinion waggy D44 with 8 lug isn't worth much more, so all you're getting out of the deal is an ARB, and the guy isn't even going to give you the pump. The rig needs a lot of parts and work.....no steering pump, no tires, etc. Run away from this deal as fast as you can.

You would be much better off selling the '89 and using the money to buy a front HP D44 for your current XJ. Besides, unless that waggy D44 has alloy shafts and CTM, Ox, or Longfield axle joints, we wouldn't even let you run with us with that size tire.

Step back and think about........you're not really getting anything. Plus, do you really want to show up with a 12" lift, full width axle leaf sprung rig.........and suffer the certain ridicule. :gag:

:D :D

Thanks for all the advice Richard. I know it seems fishy. I just see it as the big name axles I would be getting, but I know it needs work and the 14 bolt is really heavy and with a unibody like the xj. I don't know if it's that good to have. I'm very happy with my 91', I just want to get a stronger front axle, it hasn't broken on me at all yet with the arb. I see guys running big tires on a low pin dana 44 all the time, is it just a time bomb, I know it has the same size u-joint as the later dana 30's 297's or 760's. I'm sure it has lots of cracks too with those big tires and axles.
Troy