Project Long- Arm Complete! (pics)

[WhiteXJMax]

Took about a week.. with my shop time.. tell me what you think
later, Max
http://www.projectxj.com/images/maxlongarm/images/IMG_3446.jpg
http://www.projectxj.com/images/maxlongarm/images/IMG_3444.jpg
http://www.projectxj.com/images/maxlongarm/images/IMG_3442.jpg
The XJ..

http://www.projectxj.com/images/maxlongarm/images/IMG_3448.jpg

[yellowxj]

Looks good and stout to me. Really thinking about a system like that in the rear. Looks like it could be so simple..........

[Dann]

Nice and simple. Should work well for you. Check your welds occasionally. I'm not trying to bust your cajones, but I fit and weld for a living and you have some severe undercutting on your UCA tabs, and a few other areas that may lack sufficient penetration. Keep an eye on the welded stuff for cracking and weld failure and keep practicing. Otherwise, good execution.
Dann

[Beezil]

I'm certainly not trying to bust you either.......

but your welder is a 120 volt machine, isn't it?

if not, it can get hotter than that.....

I'd crank it up and re-hit those welds.

otherwise, nice job!

[xman]

Nice job, looks good.

[Lucas]

Your rear DS looks thin, what brand is it?
Also not criticizing, just wondering.

[Burley]

Originally posted by Dann
Nice and simple. Should work well for you. Check your welds occasionally. I'm not trying to bust your cajones, but I fit and weld for a living and you have some severe undercutting on your UCA tabs, and a few other areas that may lack sufficient penetration. Keep an eye on the welded stuff for cracking and weld failure and keep practicing. Otherwise, good execution.
Dann

I just started welding about three months ago and was wondering what 'undercutting' is. ?

Burley

[Dann]

Undercutting is when your base metal or weldment gets washed into the weld leaving a concave or cut away appearance at the weld to weldment or base metal junction(s). It is usually caused by improper heat, speed, or insufficient filler metal. When welding metals of differing thickness, concentrate your arc on the thickest component to be welded and work the arc into the thinner metal quickly at a steady speed with out allowing the arc to wash away material from the thinner component. Hope this makes sense, because I am a lousy teacher. Dann

[Safari Ary]

Is no one going to comment on his scary looking welds to the unibody and his lack of cross-bracing from frame rail to frame rail?? Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't trust my life on those brackets that attach to the frame. The tabs that are welded to the brackets look decent, but the brackets to the frame look downright scary to me. Also doesn't look like any of the CA tabs are boxed. I would think that boxing them would reduce the chances of them folding over sideways. Are my concerns legitimate? or am I talkin out my a$$ here?

Ary

P.S. To the original poster, I'm not tryin to bag on your work, I think you've got a good start, just need some help here and there. Then again, I've never built a set of long arms, just armor and stuff, so my comments are all theoretical.

[Dann]

Well actually those were covered in my first post. Not specifically, just all the welding in general. I was trying to not be an a**hole, and not to totally rain on his parade. The lack of sufficient penetration applies directly to the CA tabs on the frame brackets. The weld is just sitting on the surface, like a line of caulk. Looks nice, but if you'll notice, the edges of the weld are rolled in and quite distinct from the weldment and base metal. Notice the rust line at the bottom, that is generally caused by moisture between the weld and base metal being released after cooling. And yep, I'd box 'em. Again, just trying to offer unsolicited constructive criticism. Hope you don't mind WhiteXJMax, just don't want you to kill yourself.

[RCP Phx]

Originally posted by Lucas
Your rear DS looks thin, what brand is it?
Also not criticizing, just wondering.

Thats the exhaust pipe!!!!!!!!
The other pic is the front driveshaft yoke!!!

[BrianG]

Originally posted by RCP Phx
Thats the exhaust pipe!!!!!!!! other direction.

[Lucas]

Ok, the painted black tube attached to the joint coming out of his transfercase in the second to last pic, thats what im reffering to. It just looks like the overall diameter is thin compared to a stock shaft. Im assuming its aftermarket?

[Beezil]

ary....

first thing i noticed.....

I was trying to be constructive as much as dann was....

look back at both our posts.

[RCP Phx]

Originally posted by Lucas
Ok, the painted black tube attached to the joint coming out of his transfercase in the second to last pic, thats what im reffering to. It just looks like the overall diameter is thin compared to a stock shaft. Im assuming its aftermarket?

What???????????Thats the "long arm".

[Lucas]

the "long arm" isn't connected to the "transfercase"
http://web.utk.edu/~jrich5/images/lukescrap.jpg

[M. Lake]

Originally posted by RCP Phx
What???????????Thats the "long arm".
On the left side of the cross member (1" t-cse drop) is two long arms and their brackets, in midle of the two is stock front drive shaft. On the right side of the cross member, coming out of the 231 is a small black and pretty DS
http://www.projectxj.com/images/maxlongarm/images/IMG_3442.jpg

[M. Lake]

We replied at same time:D

[Safari Ary]

Guess my reply came off a little harsh. I read all the replies first, I just didn't see anyone reply with the severity I thought was needed. Also, I didn't think anyone addressed the bracing issue at all(on the UCA mounting tabs or on the frame brackets. Anyway, wasn't meant as a bash, just constructive criticism with a push behind it. Best of luck to ya.

Ary

[RCP Phx]

Sorry Guys,with my screen setup I missed the fact that all the picture wasnt displayed!!!!!! I wasnt seeing anything rear of the crossmember!

[David Taylor]

Did I miss the jam nut at the adjuster? I don't think the treads will last long without one.

[WhiteXJMax]

Ok I am gonna straighten this whole thing out for everyone that has criticized my welds so far.... Yes I know they look boogery and bad where the bracket connects to the frame rail... but looks can be decieving.. I was welding upside down and the ratio between the double sheet metal frame and 1/4 inch angle was not totally dialed in.. I can asure all of you that the welds have gotten proper penetration and are very strong... the brackets also consist of 5 plug welds.. 2 on the outside and 3 on the bottom... with beads on most sides of the plates as well.. As for not having cross bracing.. that really isnt needed right becasue my unibody has been significantly strengthened by my rockers.. which were also welded on by me.. Note: They have been hit hard many times.. no signs of welder fatigue or cracking.... As for not boxing the upper mounts.. that also isnt really needed where as they are being tied together by a bolt and the arm itself.. as a fabricator in-training i guess you could say.. i appreciate the comments.. but you can't always tell the true strenth and structural capabailites of these long arms and mounts. If anyone has any more questions feel free to ask..

My driveshaft is a Tom Woods Modified by my local driveline shop Front Range Driveline...

Oh yeah, although I do trust my welding.. I am gonna run some bolts through the body mounts for re assurance.

One more thing I am only 17 years old so cut me some slack! :D

Max

[vintagespeed]

Originally posted by WhiteXJMax
Ok I am gonna straighten this whole thing out for everyone that has criticized my welds so far.... Yes I know they look boogery and bad where the bracket connects to the frame rail... but looks can be decieving.. I was welding upside down and the ratio between the double sheet metal frame and 1/4 inch angle was not totally dialed in.. I can asure all of you that the welds have gotten proper penetration and are very strong... the brackets also consist of 5 plug welds.. 2 on the outside and 3 on the bottom... with beads on most sides of the plates as well.. As for not having cross bracing.. that really isnt needed right becasue my unibody has been significantly strengthened by my rockers.. which were also welded on by me.. Note: They have been hit hard many times.. no signs of welder fatigue or cracking.... As for not boxing the upper mounts.. that also isnt really needed where as they are being tied together by a bolt and the arm itself.. as a fabricator in-training i guess you could say.. i appreciate the comments.. but you can't always tell the true strenth and structural capabailites of these long arms and mounts. If anyone has any more questions feel free to ask..

My driveshaft is a Tom Woods Modified by my local driveline shop Front Range Driveline...

Oh yeah, although I do trust my welding.. I am gonna run some bolts through the body mounts for re assurance.

One more thing I am only 17 years old so cut me some slack! :D

Max

As a fabricator in training, you should understand that boxing in any mount is better than leaving two tabs to move sideways. The work looks like a good start, you do need jam nuts on any threaded connection and you might want to go over those frame side plates again "just to be sure".

As for the comment about a x-brace? I have to say, "HUH?" I mean, the stock LCAs are not x-braced and these mounts are back near the factory x-member........???

Keep up the fabrication, I've seen alot worse...........

[Safari Ary]

Originally posted by vintagespeed
As for the comment about a x-brace? I have to say, "HUH?" I mean, the stock LCAs are not x-braced and these mounts are back near the factory x-member........???

Keep up the fabrication, I've seen alot worse...........

Yes, but the stock LCA mounts also don't do the duty of the UCA mounts as well. I'm not saying his mounts will fail. I'd just feel safer if they were tied together. I just don't see how spreading stress is a bad thing.

[PhatXJ]

Originally posted by Dann
Undercutting is when your base metal or weldment gets washed into the weld leaving a concave or cut away appearance at the weld to weldment or base metal junction(s). It is usually caused by improper heat, speed, or insufficient filler metal. When welding metals of differing thickness, concentrate your arc on the thickest component to be welded and work the arc into the thinner metal quickly at a steady speed with out allowing the arc to wash away material from the thinner component. Hope this makes sense, because I am a lousy teacher. Dann


Hey Dann, I know what you're talking about.... and I've always known when welding that it isn't a good thing, but I never knew that was the term for it, Undercutting.

Is this an example of what you mean?

http://myweb.cableone.net/twizum007/temp/undercut.jpg

Maybe a minor, or non extreme example?

In the other passes, I had turned up the wire to keep up with the heat, so they don't look quite as bad..... like the pass that you can see the best.

[Safari Ary]

Dave, stop pimpin your welds, we all know you can weld. You just make the rest of us look bad :o

[PhatXJ]

Ary, that is not a good weld circled there ;)

[Dann]

Dave, your welds look fine, and actually yes, that can be considered undercutting if one is taking a welding test, and the grader is an a**hole. But it is non-structural and very minor. Undercutting mainly applies to angled applications (90*, 45*, etc...) with filet welds and what not, though I have seen outstanding welding studs (sarcasm) undercut reinforced butt welds.

[PhatXJ]

Okay, that makes sense. Thanks Dann!

[hjeepxj]

Originally posted by Dann
Undercutting mainly applies to angled applications (90*, 45*, etc...) with filet welds and what not, though I have seen outstanding welding studs (sarcasm) undercut reinforced butt welds.

When you say the 90 and 45* welds, what exactly do you mean? like bumper sides to bumper tops?

and what is a filet weld?

[Dann]

The piece to be welded to the base metal is at a 90* (or whatever) angle in relation to the base metal. A filet weld is:
lll filet weld
lll
lllx the x's are the weld. the lll's are the pieces to
lllxxx be welded.
lllxxxxx
lllxxxxxxx
llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

butt weld
lll lll lll lll lll lllxxxllllllllllllllllllllllll