RTV on oil pan gasket?

I'm in the process of doing the RMS on my '97 4.0 and I see that the write up suggests RTV on both sides of the oil pan gasket. The old gasket wasn't leaking and doesn't appear to have any RTV on it. I hate to use that stuff unless I have to because it's a PITA to clean up the next time around. Anybody had success with just using a good gasket like a fel-pro?

I have never used used RTV on the entire gasket. The only places I put it is in the corners of the arches on the front and back of the oil pan (where it meets the RMS).

BruceB83 said:

I have never used used RTV on the entire gasket. The only places I put it is in the corners of the arches on the front and back of the oil pan (where it meets the RMS).

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Thanks.

BruceB83 said:

I have never used used RTV on the entire gasket. The only places I put it is in the corners of the arches on the front and back of the oil pan (where it meets the RMS).

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Agreed....silicone the ends and I hi tack the rest of it

I did the RMS recently on my '98 and here's what I came across...

I used RTV, but on the engine block because I felt it worked better than using the zip ties or rubber band trick to hold the gasket to the pan. I did try the zip tie trick, and had nothing but problems lining up the pan/gasket/block. What worried me about gasket to the oil pan aspect, is that if the gasket at the rear of the pan dip is not perfectly in place to meet the groove in the rear bearing cap, you're going to wind up with a bigger leak. At least by RTV'ing the gasket to the block, you know the gasket is where it is suppose to end up on the block, and the pan will seat itself the rest of the way.

Just apply a thin stip of RTV round the bottom of the block. You don't need ungodly amounts of RTV. Just enough for the gasket to stick to the block. Start from the back around the dip and begin pressing the gasket in place. As you do this, use some of the pan bolts to hold the gasket in place as you work your way towards the front of the engine. Go back and press the gasket in place really well and let it sit for a while. Once the RTV has had a chance to set, you can remove the pan bolts holding the gasket in place, then proceed to install the pan.

Personally, I rather face the future event of having to scrape off a little RTV of the engine block for the next RMS change out, than keeping my fingers crossed and hoping my newly installed pan gasket doesn't leak....

Oh, and replacing the RMS with the engine in the Jeep makes me want to throw kittens. I'll let it leak before I do that again...or wait to have reason to pull the motor and replace it. The problem is you can cut it while installing it and if you do so, you wasted your time replacing it because it will leak again. Be VERY careful when sliding it up in there.

BruceB83 said:

Oh, and replacing the RMS with the engine in the Jeep makes me want to throw kittens. I'll let it leak before I do that again...or wait to have reason to pull the motor and replace it. The problem is you can cut it while installing it and if you do so, you wasted your time replacing it because it will leak again. Be VERY careful when sliding it up in there.

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I hear you on that one. I did everything but start disconnecting suspension/steering components last night and couldn't get enough droop to get that stupid pan out. Not to mention everything under there is covered with oil from the leak which isn't making things any easier.

How exactly does the RMS get cut when you slide it in?

Do you have the rubber/metal gasket or a cork gasket?

If it's the rubber/metal, I wouldn't use any RTV period.

IIRC the install directions for the fel-pro 1 piece rubber/metal gasket say to put a little in the corners where it goes over the bearing caps. That's about as much as I would do, removing RTV pisses me off.

MoparManiac said:

Do you have the rubber/metal gasket or a cork gasket?

If it's the rubber/metal, I wouldn't use any RTV period.

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It's a rubber/metal fel-pro. I haven't actually opened it to see if it has any instructions.

Then again I installed a multi-piece gasket on an AMC 360 pan and the instructions that came with that one said not to use RTV, which would have been literally impossible.

alaskan said:

...How exactly does the RMS get cut when you slide it in?

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The edge of the groove is typically very sharp...at least sharp enough to slice that rubber seal.

BruceB83 said:

Oh, and replacing the RMS with the engine in the Jeep makes me want to throw kittens. I'll let it leak before I do that again...or wait to have reason to pull the motor and replace it. The problem is you can cut it while installing it and if you do so, you wasted your time replacing it because it will leak again. Be VERY careful when sliding it up in there.

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Try a little silicone spray on the seal next time, and yes, you do need to be careful with it.

alaskan said:

It's a rubber/metal fel-pro. I haven't actually opened it to see if it has any instructions.

Then again I installed a multi-piece gasket on an AMC 360 pan and the instructions that came with that one said not to use RTV, which would have been literally impossible.

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If I'm installing a four-piece gasket, I'll RTV the corners.

I've used the moulded silicone gasket several times without anything at all - and haven't had any trouble.

I do suggest putting in about four studs (SBChevvy for stamped valve covers works neatly) - two at each end, but none in the timing cover - as it will help you keep things aligned. Put the gasket and sump in place on the studs, hold with one hand while you start nuts with the other, then use both hands to start screws all around. Get all screws started, then tighten - 1/4"-20x1/2" to 7 pound-feet/84 pound-inches, and 5/16"-18x3/4" to 11 pound-feet/132 pound-inches. (Yes, torque values are important here!)

Eesh, I had to take everything except the tie rod off to get enough droop to get that pan out. And there's a full length main girdle. This project may never end.

Eesh, I had to take everything except the tie rod off to get enough droop to get that pan out. And there's a full length main girdle. This project may never end.
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It's easyer just to lift the engine a few.
Just replaced a rusted oil pan on a ford puckup and it was not bad. Used roof rafter to hold the host. Didn't need to pull the engine so the rafters were stronge as we needed. just run two 4 by 4s across a few and shared the load that way.
With the pan off and all hows your oil press? If a bit low at idle? Maybe check your mains. Any scaring? Manybe just slip in a new pump. Could save you a bit of work down the road.

badron said:

It's easyer just to lift the engine a few.
Just replaced a rusted oil pan on a ford puckup and it was not bad. Used roof rafter to hold the host. Didn't need to pull the engine so the rafters were stronge as we needed. just run two 4 by 4s across a few and shared the load that way.
With the pan off and all hows your oil press? If a bit low at idle? Maybe check your mains. Any scaring? Manybe just slip in a new pump. Could save you a bit of work down the road.

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I'll take a pic of the mains. I can tell when a bearing is completely shot, but I probably can't say if it's at 80% of its useful life. The oil pressure isn't great, maybe 15 psi at a really hot idle, but I think I'll just deal with that.

I don't see the girdle torque values in my haynes manual, anybody know what this is supposed to be?

alaskan said:

I'll take a pic of the mains. I can tell when a bearing is completely shot, but I probably can't say if it's at 80% of its useful life. The oil pressure isn't great, maybe 15 psi at a really hot idle, but I think I'll just deal with that.

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13 psi at hot idle is factory spec, my 2000 with 105k on it has 15 hot idle, so you should be good.

I got it all put back together last night and drove it to work this morning. No leaks so I suppose all that work was worth it.

But I did get a CEL for some unknown but apparently minor issue so I need to take it down to Autozone at lunch to get it read/cleared. I also replaced a negative battery cable so I could have jostled something loose while I was in there.