Regearing Q

'97 XJ, 4.0, AX-15, 231, 8.25

im looking to replace my 3.07s with 4.10s. im feeling that i really need it to help turn my 31s. ive found a local yard with both a high pinion 30 and a late model, 29 spline, 8.25 with matching 4.10 gears. completely bolt in obviously.

now, my question is what can i expect to spend regearing my axels? the yard wants $200 for the 30, $500 for the 8.25, and id be driving 300 miles round trip to get them. doesnt seem worth it IMO... especially considering id rather put parts into the jeep that ive had new since 97, and know what kind of abuse its been through rather than throwing somehing else under the jeep.

do it myself, or having a shop do it for me... what can i expect to spend?

I bought my parts for the 8.25 from a vendor here on ended up paying 225.00 to have it set up.

couple hundred for the gearset and master install kit, couple hundred for install (these prices are both per-axle) or a couple hundred for the tools to do the install and learn how to do it yourself. Definitely not for everyone, I've been considering doing my own for a while but ended up just buying an axle with gears already in it.

when regearing, is there anything else im going to need to beef up? i see people completely rebuilding axels with new shafts and such... but in all honesty my jeep gets me to and from work/school with the occasional ORV part or two-track home. i dont beat on it hard, and lockers arent in the near future either. can i get away with just gears for my DD?

if i were to buy the parts instead of complete axels too, i think id jump strait to 4.56 or 4.88s and be done with it. i plan to go no bigger than 33s. in the long run this would be the cheaper route eh?

If I were you I would pick up that dana 30 with 4:10's. That's not that bad of a price for it geared. Then instead of paying that much for the 8.25 I would get an 8.8 out of an explorer (4:10, disc brakes and LSD are not hard to find). Weld some leaf spring mounts on it and never look back. You will get more bang for your buck. $500 just seams very expensive to me for that rear axle. I got mine from a club member for $100 and then got an 8.8 to swap in instead (I HATE drum brakes).

haha, local yard wants $550 for a 8.8. F that... but provided i could find one at a reasonable price, whats the difference between LSD and open diffs?

searching online found me the dana 30 at a yard farther away. though online it says its out of a 97, the guy old me it was out of a 00. this leads me to beleive its not a high pinion 30. and i cant open up the diffs to physically inspect the gears, because that voids their 30 "warranty".

Gentlemen, In addition to the new 4.10 gears and master install kit plus labor isn't VAhasnoWAVES also going to need two new gear carriers to go from 3.07s to 4.10s?

My opinion is: I would buy the the Dana 30 and the 8.25 for $700 in a heartbeat. (I would try to talk them into a package price. $500 for the 8.25 seems a little pricey to me) Swap out the axles and sell your original axles. I think you would be money and time ahead. Once you sell your original axles you may only have $300 or less in total invested plus your free labor.

Just my $0.02 worth.......

Won't need a new carrier for the 8.25, the carrier break on those is way down in the 2.something range iirc.

I'd go for the d30, as long as it is a high pinion one and isn't rusted and the bearings are in good shape. Don't blow 500 bucks on that 8.25 as Jay said though. I want to know why the junkyard is charging such ridiculous prices for axles, I can get any axle I want for 100 bucks at my local yard as long as I pull it. Is it one of those dumb yards where they have to pull stuff for you? If so, find a you-pull-it near you and check the row of Exploders, there probably will be at least one with 4.10s in it. You can get everything you need for an 8.8 swap for well under 500 if you shop around.

Buy those, throw them in yourself, convert the rear to discs and you have a decent setup. Add lockers and stronger shafts for even better axles. You are looking at around $500 per axle to regear! AS for the $500 8.25 that is a ripoff. You could find an explorer 8.8 for less than that with LS 4.10's and discs!

Hell if you get a gas sipper to borrow drive to MA and get an 8.8 for cheap prolly spend less on gas + axle then $500 for an 8.25. Don't get me wrong I love the 8.25. I had no plans of swappign mine out till I got a dana 30/8.8 with 4.10s, tru trac/LSD for $600.

You should get a quoted price for regearing with the axles pulled already. That may make it more cost effective for you to just regear your axles instead of getting the new ones.

I got my D30 & D44 regeared for $150 labor per axle. The shop wanted hundreds more if the axle was still under the XJ. I even got my 4.88s through them and came away from the whole deal, parts included, for right around $800.

This way you can get an even lower gear set, keep your original axles like you want to, and avoid the 300 mile road trip. I guess this all depends on how cheap you can get them set up for.

Gosh, now that I do the math, maybe you should just get the front axle. It's definitely cheaper than regearing. Maybe you can just get your current rear axle regeared instead of paying so much for one already geared with 4.10s. I don't really think that an 8.25 with 4.10s is worth that much.

I know I'm kind of rambling here, but if you aren't 100% sure that you'll stick with 31s, maybe you should just shell out the extra coin and regear your current axles to 4.56 or 4.88s like you mentioned. You've got quite a few options here. It will be interesting to see which way you end up going. Good luck.

for who asked... yes, the yards around me are the scam artists who wont let you pull anything. i asked them if i could simply walk around and check the XJs for things i wanted, and they said "no".

jeeperguy21 said:

You should get a quoted price for regearing with the axles pulled already. That may make it more cost effective for you to just regear your axles instead of getting the new ones.

I got my D30 & D44 regeared for $150 labor per axle. The shop wanted hundreds more if the axle was still under the XJ. I even got my 4.88s through them and came away from the whole deal, parts included, for right around $800.

This way you can get an even lower gear set, keep your original axles like you want to, and avoid the 300 mile road trip. I guess this all depends on how cheap you can get them set up for.

Gosh, now that I do the math, maybe you should just get the front axle. It's definitely cheaper than regearing. Maybe you can just get your current rear axle regeared instead of paying so much for one already geared with 4.10s. I don't really think that an 8.25 with 4.10s is worth that much.

I know I'm kind of rambling here, but if you aren't 100% sure that you'll stick with 31s, maybe you should just shell out the extra coin and regear your current axles to 4.56 or 4.88s like you mentioned. You've got quite a few options here. It will be interesting to see which way you end up going. Good luck.

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haha, thanks for putting my thought process down in writing. though i dont think interesting is the way id describe it. more like pain in the arse.

i think im going to call back about the 30. ive got family in detroit who can pick it up for me until i find the time to travel. assuming its HP a deal is a deal when you see it.

ive talked to people and made a few friends since ive moved to MI who said they could get me a 8.8 for $200 or so, seems much better to me. though i havent looked much into it. how much stronger is the 8.8 than the 8.25? and someone please describe the difference between open diffs an LSD!

ideally i plan to go 33s. but going back to school is definantly going to put that on the burner for a couple years. i like to go fast down the two tracks, and play in the sand, then cawl over the next obstacle in my way. sand is notorious for robbing power (im looking for a block to put on a stand and build myself a stroker over the years to replace my worn out 4.0, but thats another thread right? haha) and crawling calls for low gearing right? i want the torque and low gearing... how bad (or good?) would 4.56s or preferably 4.88s be on 31s?

answered my own question...

VAhasnoWAVES said:

how much stronger is the 8.8 than the 8.25?

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29 spline Chrysler 8.25: 33's with a locker, 35's without a locker. I just can't trust a 29 spline shaft to 35's with a locker. MAYBE with upgraded shafts. Good stiff housing, though, which contributes greatly to carrier and ring gear strength. upgrade your 27 spline to 29, and you'll gain these benifits.

Ford 8.8: 35's with a locker, 36's without a locker. Very similar in strength to a 44. Carriers are a weak link when used in extreme environments. New carriers are being introduced to address the weak 2 pinion carrier design. Shafts are beefy at 31 spline, but no diameter upgrades are available. Pinion shaft is very beefy, same as a 9". Weld the tubes all the way around to the pumpkin, or they WILL spin. When used in high side load aplications, like desert romping at speed, cross shaft wear and bending can occur as the shaft slams into the crosspin due to the nature of a C-clip design.


so to my understanding its wise to reweld the axel tubes to the housing when welding perches and such to the 8.8. do the internals have to be pulled when welding to the 8.8? my pain in the ass meter says yes?







well... it stormed HARD last night but now the sun is coming out its looking really wet. im thinking its going to be nice and sloppy. guess im off to the jeep blessing is mesick to see if i can break anything and put gears on hold.

jeep blessing was a blast. my little (and i mean LITTLE compared to some/most of the rigs) XJ took me everywhere i was willing to go without lockers, protection, or front tow points. ha.

talked to a guy with superior... i tell him about my situation and he hands me a card. he tells me hes the owner or someone high up the ladder (i dont remember exactly. the 30th was my 21st b-day. so i showed up still buzzing) and told me to mention him to get 15% off strait from the manufacturer.

so... that leaves my two questions un-answered... how ould 4.88s be with 31s.

AND

could someone describe to me a LSD over an open diff?

In CA, I would easily pay the $700 for the regeared axles assuming the 8.25 is 29-spline. Regearing axles around here would cost around $1300-$1500 for parts and labor for both axles. Your area may be different.

A Ford 8.8 would be better than the C82.5, but there is also brackets and fab work to include in the price. That would drive the price up by a few hundred bucks.

4.88's with 31's and a manual tranny are going to run very high RPMs on the highway. I wouldn't do it with a manual, and probably not with an auto.

An LSD will give slightly more performance than open diff, but I wouldn't pay for an LSD. If I had to pay money for an LSD, I would stay with the open diff and add a lunchbox locker in the rear.

the_weirdo said:

In CA, I would easily pay the $700 for the regeared axles assuming the 8.25 is 29-spline. Regearing axles around here would cost around $1300-$1500 for parts and labor for both axles. Your area may be different.

A Ford 8.8 would be better than the C82.5, but there is also brackets and fab work to include in the price. That would drive the price up by a few hundred bucks.

4.88's with 31's and a manual tranny are going to run very high RPMs on the highway. I wouldn't do it with a manual, and probably not with an auto.

An LSD will give slightly more performance than open diff, but I wouldn't pay for an LSD. If I had to pay money for an LSD, I would stay with the open diff and add a lunchbox locker in the rear.

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X2 on all, except for the 8.8 info. Around here the you-pull-its charge $100 for an axle, any axle, front or back, no matter what size it is or what it came out of or what gears it has. I got everything required for my 8.8 swap (still not done though, keep having to drive the XJ so I don't want to take it out of commission for very long) for under $500 - $22 for the u-joint flange, $100 for the axle, $20 for e-brake cables, $25 for spring perches, $43 for U-bolts, $150 for all-new brake hardware except calipers, $100 for a RuffStuff cover, and about $30 for enough 10x1/2" plate to make some nearly bulletproof spring plates / bumpstop landing pads. Without the RuffStuff cover, under $400 obviously... but you'll want an upgraded cover with an 8.8 because the stock one appears to be constructed from cast-off soup cans.

VAhasnoWAVES said:

could someone describe to me a LSD over an open diff?

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tsk tsk!

... this link is awesome, in a weird kind of way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4JhruinbWc
or maybe howstuffworks, if you dont like being treated like a retard http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm
LSD's are good for performance cars, and better than stock on a vehicle that see's mostly onroad duty, especially in snow.

for offroad, look into actual lockers, which is like a lsd, but more so. lsd's need to be nice mannered onroad, typically jeeps can handle some compromises onroad, that payoff offroad. the more complex/expensive the locker, the more nice it is onroad, an arb is only on when you want it to be, very nice onroad, on the other end of the spectrum, an aussie is a loud, and produces lots of weird noises onroad, but works awesome offroad.

the_weirdo said:

In CA, I would easily pay the $700 for the regeared axles assuming the 8.25 is 29-spline. Regearing axles around here would cost around $1300-$1500 for parts and labor for both axles. Your area may be different.

A Ford 8.8 would be better than the C82.5, but there is also brackets and fab work to include in the price. That would drive the price up by a few hundred bucks.

4.88's with 31's and a manual tranny are going to run very high RPMs on the highway. I wouldn't do it with a manual, and probably not with an auto.

An LSD will give slightly more performance than open diff, but I wouldn't pay for an LSD. If I had to pay money for an LSD, I would stay with the open diff and add a lunchbox locker in the rear.

Click to expand...

the question isnt the 8.25, its from a 00 so its 29 spline. but ive got to double check on the 30, if its from the same year chances are that it is low pinion.

found another 8.25 with 4.10s... these guys are asking $350 and if i can get hold of them i may have to pick it up. its 2 hours away, but its 5 minutes away from someone im trying to buy some skids from.

now... someone has got to teach me a thing or three here. when picking out an axel what kinds of things should i be looking for. i have a perfectly functioning 8.25 that can be used for parts... but is anything when looking at an axel that may cause me to just spend more money? idk the proper terminology, but wouldnt everything from the end axel tubes out be repairable with my parts. im guessing id want to replace wheel bearings and such while im in there, no use in doing it later down the road.

but that leaves the 30... my only option seems to be regearing.

About the only things to look for are too much rust and signs of abuse such as bent tubes or bad gouges on the bottom of the tubes.