Building a Cherokee that will see lots of highway use...what is practical?

Brief history: I recently sold my YJ of 16 years. It went through a lot of changes over the years and when I sold it, it had Scout axles, front/rear Detroits, a 4:1 Dana 300 tcase, spring-over suspension, and 37" Iroks plus a bunch of other junk. I sold it because I wanted to get back into exploring forest service roads, finding old mines, getting into hard-to-reach places, etc. The YJ was just too uncomfortable (no a/c, not bug-proof, hot [I removed all the carpets and had the tub Rhino-lined so no insulation from the engine heat], and crappy on the highway.

I think the 4.0L was getting tired plus the 4.10 gears with 37" bias plies wasn't a good match. ;-)

The YJ was also way too small now that I have two little kids that I want to bring bush camping.

Ok, so now on to my questions:

My plan is to buy a '97-98 XJ and build it up as a capable off-road vehicle that will also be comfortable to drive at highway speeds for several hours at a time. Although I will mostly be doing easier fourwheeling, I'll stick like to hit the occassional hardcore trail, but will be ok with avoiding the ones where sheet metal damage is a strong possibility.

So far I've got an 8274 winch and four Staun beadlocks left over from my YJ. I've also got a Ford 8.8 with disc brakes that I found for a good price.

I've also found a high pinion Ford D44 that's been narrowed and loaded with a Detroit, 4.88 gears, Superior alloy shafts, and Denden knuckles. It's running a 5 on 5.5 bolt pattern and the seller also has some 5 on 4.5 -> 5 on 5.5 adapters he can give me. So if I get that, I'll probably end up regearing the 8.8 to 4.88 as well, and throw a Detroit or ARB into it.

The problem I'm having right now is deciding what my tire size limit should be. I'm really tempted to keep it at 33" but I can go quite a few more places if I move up to 35's (based on my experience with my YJ). But I'm wondering how crappy it will be to drive a Cherokee on 35" tires on the highway?

Will the 4.88 gears be enough? (BTW, I'm planning on finding a Cherokee with the AW4 auto.) Or will it have to be so tall to fit the 35's that the wind resistance will kill the fuel economy?

For that matter, is there a big difference is loss of power when going from 33's to 35's?

I'd try to do as much fender trimming as possible to keep the lift as low as possible. What would I be looking at as a minimum lift to fit 33's, and to fit 35's?

Anyone here running 35's and doing a lot of highway driving?

And finally, are 4.88's too low for 33's on the highway?

Thanks in advance for your advice.


...lars

I'm running 3.5" of lift and 33s right now. ktm racer 419 on here has run 37s and 2" of lift... it all depends on how much you want to cut the fenders and bumpstop it!

an auto with 4.88s and 33s is going to be OK, good offroad but not so good on the highway, 4.10 or likely more like 4.20 or so would be "stock" gearing for 33s mathematically speaking (i.e. without taking into account rolling resistance and tire weight.) A bunch of the guys I know have 33s, 35s, etc and range anywhere from 4.10 to 5.13 on gearing. If you "know" you aren't going to go up in tire size, 4.56s would probably be good... 4.88s if you want to hedge your bets and think you might accidentally end up on taller tires in the future.

I know a couple of the local guys are comfortable doing whatever reasonable speed they want on the highway (I believe up to 80 was mentioned last time this topic came up) with 35s, so I think you'll be fine, especially as you are used to a shorter vehicle, more lift, and taller tires already.

EDIT: I know I look like a hypocrite with 4.10 gears in the near future and 33s. I accidentally ended up on 33s instead of 32s and I already have an 8.8 with 4.10s about to go in, and 4.10 gears for my d30 sitting in a box waiting to be installed, so I don't feel like dumping more money going to 4.56s instead :dunno:

EDIT2: an EARLY 99 may be better for you than a 97/98, I forget the reasons why but they're slightly improved. With model years 96 and later, the lower you keep the lift the less likely you are to need an SYE, but since you're putting an 8.8 in anyways you will probably end up messing with your driveline so adding that to the list may not be as painful as for others who keep the stock rear axle.

4.88 and 33s is a great combo. at highway speeds you might feel like you're turning some highish RPMs, but you won't have any lack of power. 35s with 4.88s will feel slightly more sluggish, it'll come out of overdrive more often, but it won't be "underpowered". As far as strength, that front axle you found would be more than enough for 33s, and same for 35s. I'm not as familiar with the 8.8 but I know they can handle 35s, just not sure if alloys are "needed" once you're running 35s.

I'd say run those axles with 4.88s and 33s, and never worry about breaking. Most trails that don't have a risk of body damage(at least around here) can be done with a rig with lockers and 33s. If you find the need to step up to 35s, you know you've got axles that are strong enough for it

"37s and 2" of lift" ?

Does he still have fenders?

Not really :roflmao:

There are pictures around here somewhere, I forget what thread they're in. He had to bumpstop A LOT, leaving little uptravel, but downtravel was pretty impressive, so he could still get over all sorts of stuff.

I run 33s and 4.88s and everywhere I go involves 65-70 mph speeds at some point (work, groceries, in-laws, church, etc) and it turns at around 2500 rpm or so. I like the combo. Decent power (although the wife's minivan is faster) while not screaming on the highway. I wouldn't want to be on anything lower than the 4.88s.

I had a friend who was running 35s on 5" lift with fenders cut for Bushwhackers. It looked pretty good with that setup, had decent clearance for the tires as well.


I'd say it sounds like you've got a decent plan, go with 4.88s and 33s or 35s and you'll be pretty good.

I have yet to see where an XJ on 33's couldn't go where one on 35's could go. You're talking about a 1" gain in overall ground clearance. Based on what you posted as your primary usage, you would be fine on 33's. I have been all over Moab on 33's. However, with that said, if you end up with the D44/8.8 combo it is plenty strong for 35's and you would be fine there as well. That combo would probably be overkill for 33's, but if you ever stepped up to 35's you'd be set.

If you go 35's you're looking at 4:88's for best overall compromise in highway mileage and off road gearing. Or you could turn higher RPM's and suck more gas by going 5.13's, but have better gearing off road. For 33's, lots of guys on here will tell you 4:56 is best overall combo, with 4:88 being a close 2nd. There is always a compromise somewhere.

Ideal lift height for 33's is around 3.5" to 5". For 35's you could do anywhere from 4.5" to 6". It all depends on how much sheetmetal you want to cut and how much you want to bumpstop. Decisions, decisions.

Brad M. said:

I have yet to see where an XJ on 33's couldn't go where one on 35's could go. You're talking about a 1" gain in overall ground clearance.

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For me, the differences seems more to do with contact patch than ground clearance. We have a lot of loose dirt, loam, and snow. Contact patch really, really helps.

Ideal lift height for 33's is around 3.5" to 5". For 35's you could do anywhere from 4.5" to 6". It all depends on how much sheetmetal you want to cut and how much you want to bumpstop. Decisions, decisions.

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Yeah, well, limiting the up travel is something that reduced the off road stability of my YJ in the year before I sold it. So I won't want to limit up travel very much. I don't mind chopping out the fenders as long as I can still get some half-way decent looking flares to cover the tires.

I was always paranoid about my YJ getting a vehicle inspection ticket from the police. So for my next rig, it's got keep the tires covered. With that in mind, how much lift do you think I'd need to fit 35's?

--

BTW, thx to everyone for your input so far. This is really helping.

...lars

larsbc said:

For me, the differences seems more to do with contact patch than ground clearance. We have a lot of loose dirt, loam, and snow. Contact patch really, really helps.


Yeah, well, limiting the up travel is something that reduced the off road stability of my YJ in the year before I sold it. So I won't want to limit up travel very much. I don't mind chopping out the fenders as long as I can still get some half-way decent looking flares to cover the tires.

I was always paranoid about my YJ getting a vehicle inspection ticket from the police. So for my next rig, it's got keep the tires covered. With that in mind, how much lift do you think I'd need to fit 35's?

--

BTW, thx to everyone for your input so far. This is really helping.

...lars

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I agree with you on the contact patch issue, good point. Keep in mind too though that the XJ's wheelbase is longer than a YJ, so limiting uptravel is less of a factor there. Besides, a properly tuned suspension with plenty of downtravel will offset the loss and perform well.

Here in Utah the UHP is REAL picky about fender flares and mudflaps, so I hear ya on the coverage issue. With the right backspacing on your wheels, and some Bushwackers or similar flares, you should be fine with coverage. For lift height, I would guesstimate that the most common lift for 35's is right around 5.5"-6".

larsbc said:

For me, the differences seems more to do with contact patch than ground clearance. We have a lot of loose dirt, loam, and snow. Contact patch really, really helps.


Yeah, well, limiting the up travel is something that reduced the off road stability of my YJ in the year before I sold it. So I won't want to limit up travel very much. I don't mind chopping out the fenders as long as I can still get some half-way decent looking flares to cover the tires.

I was always paranoid about my YJ getting a vehicle inspection ticket from the police. So for my next rig, it's got keep the tires covered. With that in mind, how much lift do you think I'd need to fit 35's?

--

BTW, thx to everyone for your input so far. This is really helping.

...lars

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Snow? In CANADA?! Never! That's something we have to worry about in the northeast as well, but not as much.

I'm likely to be covering my 33x11.5s pretty well with the stock flares. At least, that's the plan... I held them up after the first go at trimming the fenders and it looks like they'll fit sheetmetal wise and mostly cover the tread. I'm on rims with zero offset now though, instead of stock backspacing of 5.25" on a 7" wide rim, so my fronts might hang out just a little bit. The 8.8 is a bit narrower than the stock axle so that should counteract the lower backspacing somewhat. If you can't cover em with relocated stock flares, you can either use YJ flares (look closer to the styling of the pre-97 XJ flares, some people like to use two sets of rears, some like the front YJ flares on an XJ front though) or TJ flares (closer to the styling of a 97+ XJ, same goes with front/rear flares.)

Brad M. said:

I have yet to see where an XJ on 33's couldn't go where one on 35's could go. You're talking about a 1" gain in overall ground clearance. Based on what you posted as your primary usage, you would be fine on 33's.

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I've been and seen places where an XJ on 33s couldn't make what an XJ on 35s could. Not just about the ground clearance here.

I agree, 33s would probably be fine for him.

Brad M. said:

If you go 35's you're looking at 4:88's for best overall compromise in highway mileage and off road gearing. Or you could turn higher RPM's and suck more gas by going 5.13's, but have better gearing off road. For 33's, lots of guys on here will tell you 4:56 is best overall combo, with 4:88 being a close 2nd. There is always a compromise somewhere.

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You must not have talked to everyone. Everyone I know says 4.88s are way better than 4.56s for 33s, including myself and I have run that combo while DDing my rig 400+ miles a week.

Brad M. said:

Ideal lift height for 33's is around 3.5" to 5". For 35's you could do anywhere from 4.5" to 6". It all depends on how much sheetmetal you want to cut and how much you want to bumpstop. Decisions, decisions.

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x2 on this. I'd shoot for 3.5" of lift for 33s and 4-4.5" of lift with 35s with generous sheetmetal rework.

Lockers, rock rails, skids and recovery points. Add any decent MT and you've got a hell of a rig without having to deal with adding height.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFd9ugS8gqA

Kevin108 said:

Lockers, rock rails, skids and recovery points. Add any decent MT and you've got a hell of a rig without having to deal with adding height.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFd9ugS8gqA

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Unfortunately, that's not the case, at least not around here. Bigger tires make a very significant difference.

There's no doubt that you can go a lot of places in the vehicle you describe, but I want mine to go farther. That doesn't mean it has to be a full on rock crawler, but I do expect it to do harder trails than what was in the video.

Nothing wrong with a stock height 4x4 if it suits your requirements, though. Hell, this XJ is going to be smaller than what I'm used to so I'm definitely walkin' the walkin' on this point. ;-)


...lars

Get some Bushwhackers on it and you'll cover 35s or 33s.

AL BUNDY said:

"37s and 2" of lift" ?

Does he still have fenders?

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mhm. more like 3" over stock



anyway everyone in this thread seemed to sum it all up.

i currently run 5.38 gears with 35's
she is quick and still capable of comfortably going faster than a lifted xj should go
oh i also get a consistent 18-19 mpg. staying in one gear and not lugging the engine is better for mpg's than constantly changing gears and having the torque converter slip to make up for it on hills and accelerating.

MoparManiac said:

You must not have talked to everyone.

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Is that possible?

If you are going to be driving the highway on 33"s or bigger, loaded with gear and your kids, you are going to want to upgrade the front and rear brakes.
WJ or Vancos on the front should be a serious consideration as well as ZJ discs on the rear.

If you do the 44/8.8 combo, definitely go 35's. I have 4.56's with 32's, which is almost a bit much on the highway. I drive 80 miles a day at 70+ mph without a problem. I'd think 4.88's would be fine with 35's.

A 4.5" lift and decent fender trimming would be good for 35's as well. Get Bushwhacker flares or Rusty's flex flares and it should mostly cover a 12.5" tire with 4.5" or so of backspacing.

So 44/8.8 combo, 35's, 4.88's, locker in one or both of the axles, SYE and driveshaft, beefy steering, then do some armor on the bottom and you'll be straight. Oh, and make sure to get the NP231 TC for the ease of SYE.

I am currently running 35s 4.88s in a waggy 44 front and an isuzu 44 out and about 4-inches up front and 3 in the back. Just pay attention to trimming and proper bump stop length and you are headed down the right road.

Brad M. said:

Is that possible?

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:dunno: