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**UPDATED** HHO GAS....

ChrisTX said:
This is on my '02 TJ with I6, but it appears my computer is now ignoring the inputs from my MAP adjuster. I think I'm going to have to get an adjuster for my O2 sensor as well. If it wasn't such a pain, I'd hook up this up to my '00 XJ and see, but I'm afraid I'd get the same results.

I think the only way to see the gains is to get control over both the MAP and the O2 sensors.

The computers are pretty smart. If they get data from a sensor that is outside of reality, or outside of normal bounds, the computer will lock that sensor out of the calculation algorithm, and ignor it and throw a CEL code, and sometimes switch to open loop, gas guzzling mode! If you have over adjusted a sensor to read outside of those normal readings, that is your real problem.
 
Hi, I'm one of the guys from http://diyhydrogenhho.com/
A lot of misconceptions here. Such as, HHO is not a molecule. It is an explosive mixture which is 2 parts hydrogen and 1 part oxygen, and believe me it is really flammable, with supposedly 3 times the energy of gasoline.
All this trickery of computers and sensors has so far been unnecessary for us. I get no warning lights and I see a mileage improvement on every vehicle we try. Dyno tests will be in our future, when time and money allows.
I am currently running units on 2 test vehicles. A 2007 toyota tacoma 6 cylinder, a 1997 pontiac sunfire 4 cylinder. Both of these vehicles are stock, with no mods to sensors or computers. Our units are drawing 6 amps and 3 amps. We just hook em on and go. They run cool since low power input, never more than 50 degrees celsius. 100 celsius is boiling point. I put mine behind the grill, in front of the radiator, since there is almost always room here.
Both vehicles get 25% + MPG boost. Tacoma goes from 20 to 21 MPG stock to 27 MPG on the highway. Sunfire started out with 28 to 31 MPG, now gets 36 to 46 MPG (mixed city and highway).
 
Ecomike said:
The computers are pretty smart. If they get data from a sensor that is outside of reality, or outside of normal bounds, the computer will lock that sensor out of the calculation algorithm, and ignor it and throw a CEL code, and sometimes switch to open loop, gas guzzling mode! If you have over adjusted a sensor to read outside of those normal readings, that is your real problem.
I have no CEL, and have not had one at all. I'm going to build a voltage regulator to hook into the supply wire of my MAP sensor, instead of the signal wire, before I drop the money on an O2 adjuster. Start with the cheapest option first.

bluebeaverbeer said:
All this trickery of computers and sensors has so far been unnecessary for us. I get no warning lights and I see a mileage improvement on every vehicle we try. Dyno tests will be in our future, when time and money allows.
I am currently running units on 2 test vehicles. A 2007 toyota tacoma 6 cylinder, a 1997 pontiac sunfire 4 cylinder. Both of these vehicles are stock, with no mods to sensors or computers. Our units are drawing 6 amps and 3 amps. We just hook em on and go. They run cool since low power input, never more than 50 degrees celsius. 100 celsius is boiling point. I put mine behind the grill, in front of the radiator, since there is almost always room here.
Both vehicles get 25% + MPG boost. Tacoma goes from 20 to 21 MPG stock to 27 MPG on the highway. Sunfire started out with 28 to 31 MPG, now gets 36 to 46 MPG (mixed city and highway).
Unfortunately, this stuff working on a Pontiac Sunfire and a Toyota Tacoma doesn't really do us a whole lot of good; seeing as how these are Chrysler/Jeep engines, and Chrysler computers. You're welcome to let my Jeep be the first one of your tests that's necessary for "trickery of computers and sensors".
 
OK here is my prediction, opinion, theory, what ever.

I think it will work, but will be to big of a pain to keep the maintenance of it up.

It has been said a hundred time on here but not together(I may have mist it along the way)

First off, I'm NOT a scientists by any means, so don't expect much of an explanation that way. But consider my self quit mechanically minded.

Now the first part of the argument agence this Hydrogen generator.
Yes if you pull 15 amp(or any amperage) from the alternator it will cause you eng to us more gas.........how much......................
Say you have been Cruise done the highway for several hours and it get dark, you need to fuel so stop for gas, figure you mileage and find it just got 15 mpg.
your off again, and travel for several hours, in the dark, on a empty Highway, with you bright lights on all the way. When you get to you destination you fuel up again. how much would your millage be this time? 14.7, 14,? lets say that it made a huge difference and it got 13.5 mpg.( if this generator increased you mileage by one tenth of it claim, You would brake even!!!!!!!!!

Now the 2nt part. we know that the gas or vapor that is going into the eng from this Hydrogen eng(HHO) is flammable........No one disagrees with that, right? and every one that has installed one of these has commented that it runs much smoother at idle.
If the gas is being burned, more equily between cylinder, it would run smother right?
So if it is making the gas burn more efficiently (Making the gas work better or make more power for the same amount of gas) then mileage will go up...........up ten mpg??????
I would do cart will if it did!!!!!!! and they claimer more then that IM SOLD!!! WERE DO I BY ONE.............:guitar:

OK now to contradict my statements above:confused1

At low speed light throttle, i thing this fuel generator will work close to its claim.

problem i have with it is that it can't vary it's volume like the throttle will do for the gas being put into the eng.
so, light throttle(low velocity in the intake manifold) this product will work grate!

They claim that it will burn at something in the range of 30 or 40:1 air fuel ratio. (and will still ignite at 100+:1 air to fuel ratio) were as gas needs around 14.7:1 or better (13 or less) to burn properly.
So, if you lean it out,(the Hydrogen) with higher velocity(heavy gas peddle foot:laugh: ) the Hydrogen would still help the gas to burn better and more efficiency, but to a lesser amount do to less percentage being deliver compared to the gas.

If you us this product and have a lead foot(as do it) then you will see vary minimal mileage improvements.
if you drive vary conservatively, all the time, and then add this generator, you MAY.. get the ridiculous mileage increases that are being promoted.


Flash.
 
I agree!!!!!!!...................How ever, sense the people of the design, are giving the idea's and parts list that you have to buy some wheres else(there not making a profit off of it) and its real cheap to try..............Why not!

It's not like this is some huge pyramid skeem or something.

If it works , GRATE if it don't then thanks to those that are testing it for us, for spending there hard earned cash to prove it Wrong:anon: :D


Flash
 
Flash said:
I agree!!!!!!!...................How ever, sense the people of the design, are giving the idea's and parts list that you have to buy some wheres else(there not making a profit off of it) and its real cheap to try..............Why not!

It's not like this is some huge pyramid skeem or something.

If it works , GRATE if it don't then thanks to those that are testing it for us, for spending there hard earned cash to prove it Wrong:anon: :D


Flash
There is no doubt that it works , I have posted my results several times a few pages ago . However there is still alot more room for improvement and some vehicles respond better than others .
 
REPOXP777 said:
There is no doubt that it works , I have posted my results several times a few pages ago . However there is still alot more room for improvement and some vehicles respond better than others .

I have seen that it works. I just can't get through a friggin' tank of gas before my computer stops my good results. If I don't run it for a day or so, then I start up my Jeep, let it run a minute, then turn on the HHO, it's almost like flipping a quiet switch. The motor almost instantly gets quiet and smooth.
 
Sorry I have not had much time to post on here. My wife and I just had our second child she is now a week old, so my time will be limited but for good reason. I will however keep posting my mileage results. :wave1:
 
lrainman said:
Sorry I have not had much time to post on here. My wife and I just had our second child she is now a week old, so my time will be limited but for good reason. I will however keep posting my mileage results. :wave1:

Congrates! :party:

Did you read my prior post asking for TDS and TSS data on yours?

ChrisTX,

Why do think the computer is "stopping your good results"??? What happens to tell you that?
 
ChrisTX said:
I have seen that it works. I just can't get through a friggin' tank of gas before my computer stops my good results. If I don't run it for a day or so, then I start up my Jeep, let it run a minute, then turn on the HHO, it's almost like flipping a quiet switch. The motor almost instantly gets quiet and smooth.

Won't be doing this to my jeep then, I prefer it loud and obnoxious.
 
csmith said:
You can't run your engine off of it but it burns along with the gasoline. It would take a huge electrolyzer and hundreds of amps to produce 30 liters a minute. These smaller ones draw 10-20amps produce 2 LPM enough to run maybe a weed whacker engine.

The back of the napkin numbers I came up with for cruising was 118 cfm air intake, which is more like 3300 liters/minute. My rough estimate at 12 volts, 10-amps was 0.78 cfm of HHO or about 22 liters/minute. Still pretty insignificant percentage-wise.
 
outlander said:
Makes sense.....but then again driving around with 15 gallons of gasoline back there in the gas tank seems crazy if it wasn't for the fact that millions of people do it everyday.
Or what about the people who have converted to propane injection and drive around with 50lbs of propane sloshing around inside a steel cylinder?

Except that HHO is already pre-mixed with all the O2 it needs. It really is a bomb waiting for a spark. The propane tank doesn't have any.
 
I almost had the cops called on me by my neighbors, they thought I was lighting fireworks or shooting guns. Both highly illegal in this area. I put a couple drops of liquid soap in electrolite to make hydrogen bubbles and lighter make big pop!

I'm going to try a double spiral design with + and - starting at opposite ends top and bottom, center of spiral and outer edge.

Preliminary started with old SS tongs 1/8" thick 1/8" gap 6" length powered by battery charger. 6V 1-2A, 12V 2A, 12V 15A I didn't attempt to try the 12V 100A car start setting.Still experimenting with electrolite solutions so far tried Citric acid (came with hydrogen rocket), sodium carbonate, sodium bicarbonate
 
lawsoncl said:
The back of the napkin numbers I came up with for cruising was 118 cfm air intake, which is more like 3300 liters/minute. My rough estimate at 12 volts, 10-amps was 0.78 cfm of HHO or about 22 liters/minute. Still pretty insignificant percentage-wise.

That is almost 1 gallon of HHO gas in 10 seconds! :eek:

Where did the 0.78 and 118 cfm come from? Other than the napkin that is, LOL.
 
Flash said:
I think I found some better numbers for power -> volume output at
http://www.hydrogen.asn.au/hydrogen-technical-calculations.htm

Using their final numbers of "2.693 KWhrs and produces 47.968 Cubic Feet of Hydrogen & 23.984 Cubic Feet of Oxygen".

Thats 2039 liters per hour at a steady 2693 watt draw.
or 34 liters/minute at 2693 watts.
or roughly 1.5 liters/minute at 120 watts, max theoretical output.

Not too far off from my previous balpark of .78 at a 60% efficiency guess.
 
lawsoncl said:
I think I found some better numbers for power -> volume output at
http://www.hydrogen.asn.au/hydrogen-technical-calculations.htm

Using their final numbers of "2.693 KWhrs and produces 47.968 Cubic Feet of Hydrogen & 23.984 Cubic Feet of Oxygen".

Thats 2039 liters per hour at a steady 2693 watt draw.
or 34 liters/minute at 2693 watts.
or roughly 1.5 liters/minute at 120 watts, max theoretical output.

Not too far off from my previous ballpark of .78 at a 60% efficiency guess.

1.5 liters per minute is about 1/14th of the 22 liters per minute you came up with originally. 1.5 liters per minute MAX is closer to what I would expect a larger one of these units to be able put out if built properly.

That means the HHO gas to inlet air volume ratio at cruising is closer 0.05% HHO gas. Thats 1 part HHO gas to 2000 parts air. Of course the air is 79% nitrogen, and only 21% O2 at STP, and the HHO is higher purity hydrogen and oxygen, with some H2O. If I discount the nitrogen that is a 400:1 ratio for HHO gas feed to oxygen feed from the air feed. Or about 1 part hydrogen to about 500 parts oxygen in the final mix, not counting the gasoline and nitrogen. At idle, that should be closer 50 parts oxygen to 1 part hydrogen (assuming the idle air volume is 1/10th of the cruising air volume). Sounds good at idle, but maybe a little lean on the hydrogen at cruising speed.

At 20 mpg, and 60 mph, I would use 3 gallons of gasoline in an hour, or 0.05 gallons per minute, or 0.19 liters per minute of gasoline (liquid).
 
lawsoncl said:
The back of the napkin numbers I came up with for cruising was 118 cfm air intake, which is more like 3300 liters/minute. My rough estimate at 12 volts, 10-amps was 0.78 cfm of HHO or about 22 liters/minute. Still pretty insignificant percentage-wise.

Interesting. I do know that Hydrogen has 6X more energy than gasoline.

What's your numbers for a 2HP mower engine? Just curious. Have seen it done with 5-6LPM of HHO.

Some of the HHO experimenters say they can run a V6 vehicle off 30-40 LPM. Thats injected directly into the engine (no electronics) with timing set to top dead center.
 
Ecomike said:
1.5 liters per minute is about 1/14th of the 22 liters per minute you came up with originally. 1.5 liters per minute MAX is closer to what I would expect a larger one of these units to be able put out if built properly.

That means the HHO gas to inlet air volume ratio at cruising is closer 0.05% HHO gas. Thats 1 part HHO gas to 2000 parts air. Of course the air is 79% nitrogen, and only 21% O2 at STP, and the HHO is higher purity hydrogen and oxygen, with some H2O. If I discount the nitrogen that is a 400:1 ratio for HHO gas feed to oxygen feed from the air feed. Or about 1 part hydrogen to about 500 parts oxygen in the final mix, not counting the gasoline and nitrogen. At idle, that should be closer 50 parts oxygen to 1 part hydrogen (assuming the idle air volume is 1/10th of the cruising air volume). Sounds good at idle, but maybe a little lean on the hydrogen at cruising speed.

At 20 mpg, and 60 mph, I would use 3 gallons of gasoline in an hour, or 0.05 gallons per minute, or 0.19 liters per minute of gasoline (liquid).


Good point sir.
 
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