Spring clamps\worm clamps

[88 Wagonman]

I used to work in a marina as a rigger and parts manager. Never once saw a new or used boat with a spring clamp. I think the Coast Guard had something against them. (actually I know they do, it's a safety regulation) Also, I believe aircraft use worm clamps and band clamps with locknuts. The wide surface of the worm clamp seems like a better idea to me, just pay attention to how tight you're getting it. If you need a torque wrench for a hose clamp then I'm betting your oil filters only come off after you crush them, am I right?. And yes I've been turning wrenches for awhile.

You must have never worked on outboards then, VERY rarely a worm clamp. It would freak some of these guys out to see zip ties, spring clamps and plastic snapper clamps from the factory! Not that I am defending the use of them or recommending them. The coast guard has a problem with them on inboards and I\O's but not on outboards.

 

[Ogrebonz]

Yep, you're right, I forgot about Outboards, even though I rigged more than a few of them. Those pesky snapper clamps not only suck, they are specified by the manufacturer and must be used to avoid problems with warranties.
Good point though, I wonder why they can use plastic ties and clamps, as well as spring clamps on O/B's but not on I/O's? Something to do with the engine being outside the boat?
Sorry I derailed the thread though, back to XJ's!

 

[winterbeater]

:bs:winter, the more you talk the more we understand that you know very little. many of your posts contain nothing but bs info. how about you think about whether or not the info you have is correct or not before you jack your jaw or let your fingers dance on the keyboard.:dunce:

and where did you "work in OEM powertrain cooling?" evidently it wasnt very long. if you had, you would have come to realize that the spring style hose clamps do work themselves loose surprisingly easy. i have even seen one that was still on there from the factory on an original hose and it was so loose that it could be rotated around the hose by hand with minimal resistance. i have yet to see a properly secured worm drive style hose clamp do that. sure they can be installed to loose, but so can just about anything else- operator error. so following your ideology there, then we should replace all the bolts and nuts in our rig with grooved studs and those annoying lock-washer clips right? cause they dont come loose do they?:gee:

oh, and if someone is worried about cutting their hose with a hose clamp, then they should invest in a good torque wrench. plumbers use a nice "T" handled torque wrench when working with no hub cast iron pipe. the pipe and fittings are joined together via a no hub band (a rubber gasket that covers both ends of the joint down on to the pipe and fitting and is compressed via multiple stainless steel worm drive hose clamps on top of a thin piece of corrugated stainless sheet). a plumbers torque wrench is used to make sure that there is proper torque on the bands. too little and the pipe joint will leak. too much and it distorts the rubber gasket and causes leaks. same concept can be applied to rubber hoses and hose clamps. someone could also use a fuel line hose clamp on their rig as the edges of the band are designed not to cause damage to the hose. im not sure in what sizes they are available for.

It must be nice living in a world where you know it all. Surely you are a juvenile. Mature adults realize that there can be more than one answer. But I admit that I had more fun as a youngster myself. :sure:

 

[lawsoncl]

Although I don't mind spring clamps too much, I have had to replace quite a few that lost their spring and started leaking. They usually work fine if they're brand new, but its too easy to over stretch them and have them leak afterward.

I prefer properly snugged up screw clamps myself. Too tight just damages the hose. I try to get good quality screw clamps. The straps on the cheap Chinese ones might be stainless, but often the screw portion is soft metal that strips easily or rusts.

 

[winterbeater]

Update!

......Turned out the lower radiator hose slipped (or blew) off the lower radiator hose nipple. It had been on there for a good 2-3 years since I put all new hoses and new radiator...etc on the rig. Only about 20,000 miles since then too. ..... In fact the hose came of the radiator nipple before the bottle and cap could fail!

I put the hose back on the radiator, tightened the hose clamp, refiled the system, with a 50/50 mix, and drove it home with AC on and off,
...So far I am not sure what triggered this failure.

Hopefully Ecomike will report back whether it was a worm drive hose clamp or a constant tension spring clamp the let the hose come off. Also curious if it was a plastic tank radiator or aluminum.

 

[lawsoncl]

Out of coincidence when I checked the oil in my Equinox this morning (bought it used 2 months ago), I noticed that the factory painted a line across all the hoses and spring clamps. The line was not continuous and it looked like the clamp had gotten tighter than when originally installed and marked at the factory. I'm not sure why they were marked, perhaps that was the QC check that they were all installed and properly placed.

 

[Ecomike]

Speaking as a paid profressional mechanic, I replace every spring clamp I take off & replace them with a worm clamp, at no charge to the customer. And if you have NEVER had a spring clamp NOT reseal a hose, than you haven't turned enough wrenches yet.

I agree with 5-90's points earlier, and SB has a real good point here. I would never even trust a new or used spring clamp on a slightly used (but fairly new) hose, or an old hose with a clamp history in the hose clamp area.

I might trust a fairly new used spring clamp on a new hose, but then again like 5-90 said, they are a pain to position and install, a pain to reach once installed in a recessed area. I have switched to and used WG clamps exclusively for 35 years.

BUT, You do need to develop a feel for the proper torque on WG clamps, as you can bust the plastic, or even metal nipples on plastic bottles and plastic radiators, and you can even bust the clamps using a lever arm tool, as opposed to a straight screw driver.

I had a recent (Friday, 2 days ago) radiator coolant dump, real reason still unknown, but the one thing I did find wrong was the lower radiator hose blew off the lower radiator nipple (plastic) which had a WG clamp on it. Only thing I could figure was maybe the hose had thinned out under the clamp, and the clamp was no longer tight enough after working fine for 2-3 years. The hose and clamp and radiator were all new 2-3 years ago. I do recall tightening that clamp on the loose side due to concerns I might damage the plastic nipple underneath, and I recall the radiator hose being thicker than I was used to seeing when it was new.

I do have a WG clamp on the bottle cap on my Renix style sealed coolant overflow bottle!!!!

That all said, a spring clamp may have merits on new hose, and plastic nipple installations, in easy to reach areas.

 

[Ecomike]

Parts bin was empty and they had to grab one from the next? Best I can do...

With the financial troubles these guys are having, that might be true, but they tend to be anal about part numbers, part bags that are labeled for OEM parts.

Perhaps the combination of plastic radiator nipples, and the required initial forces on a spring clamp made them switch in favor of a clamp that can be looser when new (less pressure on the plastic nipple) and that can be retightened more easily later.

 

[Ecomike]

Hopefully Ecomike will report back whether it was a worm drive hose clamp or a constant tension spring clamp the let the hose come off. Also curious if it was a plastic tank radiator or aluminum.

It was a SS worm gear clamp, a plastic radiator nipple (radiator, clamp), and both as well as the hoses were brand new when installed 2-3 years, about 20,000 miles ago. Note that the Renix plastic bottle, about 8 months old survived, as did the bottle cap which was held on by a worm gear clamp.

 

[Ecomike]

I used to work in a marina as a rigger and parts manager. Never once saw a new or used boat with a spring clamp. I think the Coast Guard had something against them. (actually I know they do, it's a safety regulation) Also, I believe aircraft use worm clamps and band clamps with locknuts. The wide surface of the worm clamp seems like a better idea to me, just pay attention to how tight you're getting it. If you need a torque wrench for a hose clamp then I'm betting your oil filters only come off after you crush them, am I right?. And yes I've been turning wrenches for awhile.

I have over time learned to test the hose / fitting assy with a "can I still turn or spin the hose on the fitting still" test, as a test for when the clamp is just tight enough.

No one has mentioned the importance of clamp location? It can also be a problem. Especially in tight hard to see and reach areas.

 

[winterbeater]

The wide surface of the worm clamp seems like a better idea to me, just pay attention to how tight you're getting it. If you need a torque wrench for a hose clamp then I'm betting your oil filters only come off after you crush them, am I right?. And yes I've been turning wrenches for awhile.

By the way, the current OEM used spring clamps are flat and have a wide surface just like the worm drive clamps. Hose suppliers send the hoses to the assembly line with the clamps in the open position glued in place on the hose. Line worker pops the little tab after the hose is in place and it secures itself.

 

[Ecomike]

By the way, the current OEM used spring clamps are flat and have a wide surface just like the worm drive clamps. Hose suppliers send the hoses to the assembly line with the clamps in the open position glued in place on the hose. Line worker pops the little tab after the hose is in place and it secures itself.

That IS interesting (pre assembly glue....).

I would favor the flat ones over the wire ones for sure. I still hate fighting with them to get them back off, flat or round.

 

[winterbeater]

While googling hose clamps, I also found some that might be the utlimate for the radiator hose connections of fairly large diameter which probably expand and contract a fair amount (like on a plastic tank. They were stainless worm drive clamps that were also spring loaded. I've never seen one in person though.

 

[88 Wagonman]

While googling hose clamps, I also found some that might be the utlimate for the radiator hose connections of fairly large diameter which probably expand and contract a fair amount (like on a plastic tank. They were stainless worm drive clamps that were also spring loaded. I've never seen one in person though.

Can you post a link? I am curious.

 

[winterbeater]

Can you post a link? I am curious.

http://www.normagroup.com/kunden/norma/ttw.nsf/id/EN_Constant_Torque_Details

 

[88 Wagonman]

http://www.normagroup.com/kunden/norma/ttw.nsf/id/EN_Constant_Torque_Details

Not something that I would ever buy, but kinda cool.

 

[SuzysJ]

I went with Constant-Torque clamps on ours 40,000 miles ago. Went thru the catalogs at NAPA and bought (what?) eight of them.

If you replace all the cooling system hoses, thermostat (stock temp for best life/performance), etc, with best-quality (materials cost), then by the time you have properly flushed the system (supply cost) and used proper coolant and de-ionized water (more supply cost) the additional $ isn't high. (plus RMI-25 or Schaefer's #258 Clean & Cool).

Especially if you, like me, plan to keep it awhile. We have had at least one XJ all of the past 23-years. The cooling system is compromised in size for ground clearance. Baby it! We have not ever had a cooling system problem in 340k miles on those Jeeps.

 

[Ecomike]

I just ran across a problem with using the worm gear clamps on the bottom plastic nipple of the Renix POS plastic coolant reservoir. In my case, the bottle is 12 months old, still looks new, but the screw flattish area of the WGC flattened and somewhat crushed, or deformed the bottom plastic nipple under the heat and clamp pressure stress, until it started leaking. I replaced the hose, and installed 2 WGC one above the other (luckily the nipple is long) with the screw flat sides offset by 120 degrees, as a temp fix while I wait for the new bottle. I suspect the rounder clamps, spring or flat, or the more expensive clamps discussed here might be needed in this spot, unless one upgrades to the open system or metal bottles. I also had a hose and WGC clamp slide off the plastic radiator nipple on my other XJ, after 4 years, and it was a WGC, but I had not cranked it all the way down 4 years ago for fear of damaging the plastic nipple on the radiator. I am installing an all brass Radiator, 3 row CSF today, while trying to keep MY COOL! :laugh3:

 

[winterbeater]

Another thing might help. For heavier duty use, we would insert metal sleeves into plastic radiator tanks and pressure bottles. I don't know if you could use this to your advantage, but though I'd throw it out there.