Should i buy or not hp44 & 9in /$500

[JLane99XJ]

i'm trying to decide if this junk will suit me,

i'm building an MJ-crawler
planning to run coils and radius arms front & rear on what ever axles i decide to use, so 1st off i like the 75-79 ford f150 stuff but i would like to run lockers and 37-38 tires, so i'm thinking the d44hp from said probly will pop shafts if locked so maybe a dtroit true-trac or spicer trac-lock would be better in front, but i think the 9in will hold up even if i run a spool or full locker, i'm plannin on a stock or mild drive train such as 4.0 w/ ax15/np231j or similar
i found a set or running gear currently mounted under a F/S 80 bronco (has an older model front end swapped in)
they're supposed to be geared 4.10 w/ a limited slip unit (?) in the rear 9in.
the seller just recently bought the truck and plans to swap in 1ton running gear to mate to the beast which has a 460/c-6/205 from a 1ton truck, so he is willing to part w/ the axles (which do have sum upgraded Warn hubs and new brake calipers) for $500
also he will include some big lift coils from the front and sum spare axle shafts for the 9in and also sum old 15x10 wagon wheels
i know i'll eventually pop a shaft in the d44 & have to upgrade the shafts to hold up to the abuse this rig will see at places like tellico, gray rock and others..
do yall think this stuff will be a good starting point?
and is it a good deal??

 

[JLane99XJ]

help??

 

[CRASH]

Radius arms are a horrible link choice for teh rear. Mad anti-squat.

If you are building for 38's, skip the half-ton junk. One-ton is the only way to fly.

i'm trying to decide if this junk will suit me,

i'm building an MJ-crawler
planning to run coils and radius arms front & rear on what ever axles i decide to use, so 1st off i like the 75-79 ford f150 stuff but i would like to run lockers and 37-38 tires, so i'm thinking the d44hp from said probly will pop shafts if locked so maybe a dtroit true-trac or spicer trac-lock would be better in front, but i think the 9in will hold up even if i run a spool or full locker, i'm plannin on a stock or mild drive train such as 4.0 w/ ax15/np231j or similar
i found a set or running gear currently mounted under a F/S 80 bronco (has an older model front end swapped in)
they're supposed to be geared 4.10 w/ a limited slip unit (?) in the rear 9in.
the seller just recently bought the truck and plans to swap in 1ton running gear to mate to the beast which has a 460/c-6/205 from a 1ton truck, so he is willing to part w/ the axles (which do have sum upgraded Warn hubs and new brake calipers) for $500
also he will include some big lift coils from the front and sum spare axle shafts for the 9in and also sum old 15x10 wagon wheels
i know i'll eventually pop a shaft in the d44 & have to upgrade the shafts to hold up to the abuse this rig will see at places like tellico, gray rock and others..
do yall think this stuff will be a good starting point?
and is it a good deal??

 

[JLane99XJ]

anti-squat is beyond my dilect of suspension

i'm plannin on a trailing arm of sorts using a big heim at the front spring hanger and bolting the arm onto the spring perch w/ ubolts and having the arms bent to provide the correct pitch for the rear pinion and having the coils inboard of the spring perches and using a panhard bar to keep the thing centered..
thanks for the input about the 1/2ton stuff
but please elaborate on the anti-squat, perhaps a definition

 

[Dirk Pitt]

bolting the arm onto the spring perch w/ ubolts

Are you serious?

:gag:

 

[Kittrell]

anti-squat is beyond my dilect of suspension

i'm plannin on a trailing arm of sorts using a big heim at the front spring hanger and bolting the arm onto the spring perch w/ ubolts and having the arms bent to provide the correct pitch for the rear pinion and having the coils inboard of the spring perches and using a panhard bar to keep the thing centered..
thanks for the input about the 1/2ton stuff
but please elaborate on the anti-squat, perhaps a definition

Do you have any clue what you are doing, or did it just sound like a good idea.................:dunno:

 

[JLane99XJ]

Are you serious?

:gag:

yeah seriously
its not gonna be sum ghetto fab junk
and its not gonna be somethin anybody has seen before either..
ever took a look at an old 1/2 chevy pickup w/ a trailing arm/coil suspension its really simple and strong..
it'll be gussetted and bolted a curved coupling plate around the bottom of the axle tube where the u-bolts will pass through from the underside and the coupling plates will also be welded to the axle tube,
but yes the arms themselves (formed from 2.5x2" flat bar) will have a stud to mesh w/ the spring perch centering pin hole, and will be bolted into place..

also the rear axle will be back about 6-8" from strock giving the arms more length and travel

 

[CRASH]

yeah seriously
its not gonna be sum ghetto fab junk
and its not gonna be somethin anybody has seen before either..
ever took a look at an old 1/2 chevy pickup w/ a trailing arm/coil suspension its really simple and strong..
it'll be gussetted and bolted a curved coupling plate around the bottom of the axle tube where the u-bolts will pass through from the underside and the coupling plates will also be welded to the axle tube,
but yes the arms themselves (formed from 2.5x2" flat bar) will have a stud to mesh w/ the spring perch centering pin hole, and will be bolted into place..

also the rear axle will be back about 6-8" from strock giving the arms more length and travel

Try the search key for anti-squat answers.

Building a suspension without understanding the physics of the process will lead to poor, and possibly dangerous performance. I'd recommend lots of reading here and on www.pirate4x4.com to get your mind right on suspension tech.

 

[JLane99XJ]

Do you have any clue what you are doing, or did it just sound like a good idea.................:dunno:

i'm not one of these kinda guys to pickup the phone and call RE or whoever to buy a lift kit, i may goa around the world to cross the road, but yeah i know what i'm doin,
if coils and radius arms is such a bad idea then why in the heck are alot of well built rigs running the setup in the front,
not alot different from my rear setup *Plan* is a coil or coil-over and 4 link rear that alot of ppl are seeminglous famous for..
i know to get the ride height and suspension travel i want from the rear of the MJ leaves just wont cut it, the problem w/ buggy (quarter-eliptical) springs is axle wrap ; coils and radius arms solve both those problems..

 

[CRASH]

i'm not one of these kinda guys to pickup the phone and call RE or whoever to buy a lift kit, i may goa around the world to cross the road, but yeah i know what i'm doin,

I think you may need to re-evaluate your understanding of the system if you don't know what anti-squat is.

if coils and radius arms is such a bad idea then why in the heck are alot of well built rigs running the setup in the front,
not alot different from my rear setup

4 link is much different than radius arm. 4 links are also difficult to get right. When they are good, they are very good. When they are bad, they are SO much worse than a good leaf set-up.

As a teaser, let me just tell you that the forces acting upun a front suspension are much different than those acting upon the rear.

*Plan* is a coil or coil-over and 4 link rear that alot of ppl are seeminglous famous for..
i know to get the ride height and suspension travel i want from the rear of the MJ leaves just wont cut it, the problem w/ buggy (quarter-eliptical) springs is axle wrap ; coils and radius arms solve both those problems..

You do realize that most people with quarter elliptical setups run 4 links right? How would axle wrap be a problem?

 

[JLane99XJ]

Try the search key for anti-squat answers.

Building a suspension without understanding the physics of the process will lead to poor, and possibly dangerous performance. I'd recommend lots of reading here and on www.pirate4x4.com to get your mind right on suspension tech.

thanks i will

i've built a couple rigs in my short 31 yrs on this rock, my 99 on 35s w. d44 discs and 4.88 locked, w/ dents and scratches to prove it gets wheeled, and Hard.
besides that, let us all get on track w/ an understanding of what the end result of this MJ rig will be..
pure trail rig, plain and simple, as i said MJ crawler this is a truck cab w/ no bed no doors no interior no roof there wont be much left of the body at all after its cut and tubed as for weight over the rear axle a 15 gallon fuel cell a tool box and a spare tire, suspension is all about balance..
This ends my argument w/ the nay-sayers, trust in this: i will get it done.

 

[JLane99XJ]

You do realize that most people with quarter elliptical setups run 4 links right? How would axle wrap be a problem?

yeah i do realize that, and yet it is a good system is not one that is easily configured and is not simple.

has anyone ever heard of the KISS principle often used in Engineering (of which i am a former student of)
the KISS principle is an acronym for Keep it Simple Stupid (i'm not calling anyone names, although i more than likely am) but that is the principle on which i try to operate on..
the custom radius arm setup i'm planning will work and work fine, it essentially will be a 4 link system without any visible Upper control arms, use your imagination or just pretend the upper arms are invisible if that helps to understand it.

 

[Kittrell]

yeah i do realize that, and yet it is a good system is not one that is easily configured and is not simple.

has anyone ever heard of the KISS principle often used in Engineering (of which i am a former student of)
the KISS principle is an acronym for Keep it Simple Stupid (i'm not calling anyone names, although i more than likely am) but that is the principle on which i try to operate on..
the custom radius arm setup i'm planning will work and work fine, it essentially will be a 4 link system without any visible Upper control arms, use your imagination or just pretend the upper arms are invisible if that helps to understand it.

Your gonna rip out your leafs for a custom radius setup and your gonna drill us about K.I.S.S.

This could get entertaining................. :hang:

 

[CRASH]

yeah i do realize that, and yet it is a good system is not one that is easily configured and is not simple.

has anyone ever heard of the KISS principle often used in Engineering (of which i am a former student of)
the KISS principle is an acronym for Keep it Simple Stupid (i'm not calling anyone names, although i more than likely am) but that is the principle on which i try to operate on..
the custom radius arm setup i'm planning will work and work fine, it essentially will be a 4 link system without any visible Upper control arms, use your imagination or just pretend the upper arms are invisible if that helps to understand it.

The physics of the system doesn't care whether your links are invisible, or painted bright pink. It will still have mad anti-squat unless you make the links very long. You can fight the anti-squat tendencies with a center limit strap, or you can build the system properly by using 4 links instead of 2.

Vertical seperation is the key. That's how you get the characterstics you want for the kind of wheeling you will be doing. With a radius arm design in the rear, the vertical seperation at the frame is 0.......

Search on POR for the 4-link calculator/spreadsheet.