Rev Den
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Plainfield, IL
Did I miss something? 180 is too cold.
Sposed to be about 210.
Rev
Sposed to be about 210.
Rev
-
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Please Help, Smog Saga Continues!
- Thread starter ChuckD
- Start date
- Location
- Antioch, CA
Rev Den said:
Why is 180 too cold? Excess heat causes high NOx. The computer needs to see the temps above 170 to go into closed loop. My junk passed with a 180 t-stat.
Aren't you in the wrong forum anyways? :wave:
l4cl4c
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Stockton, CA
I wasn't implying 200 t-stat helped, but I wanted by vehicle to have the least excusses to pass compared with stock. I have heard it both ways but OEM did it for some reason so I followed. Not always the best plan.
ChuckD
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Kerman, CA
Well when driving back and forth it was around the 180 mark on my highly accurate OEM gauge. When he did the test it was at 210.
l4cl4c, you mentioned the TPS, and said you got yours to run sweeter. Do you know this for a fact, because with your mods I would have guessed you should have upgraded your injector's. To make your engine run richer and keeping down the NOX.
Did your other numbers go up in the end?
Right now, I'm doing the most thorough cleaning I can. I pulled the injectors and three had some noticeable carbon around the edge, but no enough to cause blockage.
Now they are starting to look cleaner, I borrowed the Ultrasonic cleaner from work. I also picked up a pig tail, part#800-9213 from Autozone, and used my battery charger (I tried a 9v batt but gave up to quick) to activate the injectors.
I also sprayed down the injector and spark plug holes with cleaner. Then I'll run the Seafoam treatment down the intake and in the gas tank. Drive it for a couple days to work and that's everything I can do.
I'm very positive that I do not have a vacuum leak, sprayed starting fluid all around the intake and no idle change.
After this, I might have to upgrade injectors or something else to rich up the mixture.
l4cl4c, you mentioned the TPS, and said you got yours to run sweeter. Do you know this for a fact, because with your mods I would have guessed you should have upgraded your injector's. To make your engine run richer and keeping down the NOX.
Did your other numbers go up in the end?
Right now, I'm doing the most thorough cleaning I can. I pulled the injectors and three had some noticeable carbon around the edge, but no enough to cause blockage.
Now they are starting to look cleaner, I borrowed the Ultrasonic cleaner from work. I also picked up a pig tail, part#800-9213 from Autozone, and used my battery charger (I tried a 9v batt but gave up to quick) to activate the injectors.
I also sprayed down the injector and spark plug holes with cleaner. Then I'll run the Seafoam treatment down the intake and in the gas tank. Drive it for a couple days to work and that's everything I can do.
I'm very positive that I do not have a vacuum leak, sprayed starting fluid all around the intake and no idle change.
After this, I might have to upgrade injectors or something else to rich up the mixture.
l4cl4c
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Stockton, CA
Chuck,
I really think engine temp can vary from CAT due to the T-stat regulating (keeping closed) the temp. I think the CAT gets hot from air flow and time. Idle is time, but air flow is RPM.
Actually you are right about the injector sizing. I was forced to replace with stockers when one sprung a leak on a trip. Then later decieded to build the engine. Done several plug reads in the last 90K without white plugs. Mostely I am gentle on the WOT where the injectors maxed and the system deosn't adjust as much. I think during Smog this doesn't play much of a role unless they are too big where the PCM cannot trim the fuel enough. During low RPM and partial throttle the PCM basically uses all sensors to adjust. BUT WOT: drops the O2 signal and some others and pulls the fuel mapping from table plus the TPS, CTS, MAT, and MAP. Once I remove the CAT I have from 24lb LT1 injectors to try to fatten it up. Too fat = goodby cat.
The OEM manual had a more detialed adjustment, using an average if I recall for the Renix. Balancing the input with the out put volts. Volt meter + Calculator. I had my TB bored and set it using only voltage. Not so good. But using FSM the accelleration curve smoothed out. If this setting is not right the PCM will use think you are applying more or less throttle. Sorry forget to mention the TB in my earlier. (I also run the Moper 6AL MSD, but I unhooked it for Smog since no CARB #.)
My numbers did go down in the end. After the first post I went looking for the #'s. Found passing test but No luck on the 1st two tests.
Passed #'s:
15MPH: RPM 1732, O2 0.00, HC 24, CO .06, NO 98
25MPH: RPM 1678, O2 0.00, HC 29, CO .05, NO 187
Pretty lean, but passes no problems on the test.
Just a thought: If you haven't checked your CTS senor and connector contacts it could be telling the PCM it is hot = make lean, when the engin is not as hot. I doubt this is the probelm...but a digital Ohm meter is an easy test. Not sure your year is same but 185ohms is 212F and 450ohms is 160F on mine.
By the way: Read many of your post in the past:::Thanks for sharing. Hope something from me helps you someday.
I really think engine temp can vary from CAT due to the T-stat regulating (keeping closed) the temp. I think the CAT gets hot from air flow and time. Idle is time, but air flow is RPM.
Actually you are right about the injector sizing. I was forced to replace with stockers when one sprung a leak on a trip. Then later decieded to build the engine. Done several plug reads in the last 90K without white plugs. Mostely I am gentle on the WOT where the injectors maxed and the system deosn't adjust as much. I think during Smog this doesn't play much of a role unless they are too big where the PCM cannot trim the fuel enough. During low RPM and partial throttle the PCM basically uses all sensors to adjust. BUT WOT: drops the O2 signal and some others and pulls the fuel mapping from table plus the TPS, CTS, MAT, and MAP. Once I remove the CAT I have from 24lb LT1 injectors to try to fatten it up. Too fat = goodby cat.
The OEM manual had a more detialed adjustment, using an average if I recall for the Renix. Balancing the input with the out put volts. Volt meter + Calculator. I had my TB bored and set it using only voltage. Not so good. But using FSM the accelleration curve smoothed out. If this setting is not right the PCM will use think you are applying more or less throttle. Sorry forget to mention the TB in my earlier. (I also run the Moper 6AL MSD, but I unhooked it for Smog since no CARB #.)
My numbers did go down in the end. After the first post I went looking for the #'s. Found passing test but No luck on the 1st two tests.
Passed #'s:
15MPH: RPM 1732, O2 0.00, HC 24, CO .06, NO 98
25MPH: RPM 1678, O2 0.00, HC 29, CO .05, NO 187
Pretty lean, but passes no problems on the test.
Just a thought: If you haven't checked your CTS senor and connector contacts it could be telling the PCM it is hot = make lean, when the engin is not as hot. I doubt this is the probelm...but a digital Ohm meter is an easy test. Not sure your year is same but 185ohms is 212F and 450ohms is 160F on mine.
By the way: Read many of your post in the past:::Thanks for sharing. Hope something from me helps you someday.
Rev Den
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Plainfield, IL
Bryan C. said:
Just trying to help....after all if everything was stock and working it would pass. As far as you forum comment...nope, this is my forum I am a member of the Sierra Chapter.
Rev
- Location
- Antioch, CA
Rev Den said:
Whatever helps you sleep at night. :kissyou:
- Location
- Antioch, CA
ChuckD said:
Did you do the engine decarb yet? If there is excessive carbon in the combustion chamber it will actually increase your compression. Increased compression pressures cause more heat to be built up in the cylinder during compression and during the power stroke. Excessive heat in the combustion process is what causes the NOx emission levles to be high. So keeping your engine cool is the key. Even a small amount of carbon on in the cyliders will affect your emissions. Also tell me about your cat conv. Is it from a muffler shop? Is it a stock MOPAR replacment? Or is it a high flow style? Gary posted up something too that makes sense, a new cat can clean up your exhaust quite a bit, but for you to still fail after the cat replacement says something is really far off. Have you had the engine controller checked to see if all the sensors are reading correctly. Just because a code isn't set doesn't mean everything is good.
ChuckD
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Kerman, CA
Bryan C. said:
Monday I'm going to get one of those 60-90 day extensions.
New Catco CAT, from Summit. I believe it is just an OEM Replacement, not high flow. Also I just have a DynaoMax CAT back, original down pipe and header.
Yes I decarbed it, so it better be decarbed by now. I know someone with a code checker, so I'll make an appointment with him to see if I can see anything else. I also plan to run a couple tanks through the system.
Andy did mention an exhaust leak, at first I thought he was referring further down the pipe, but if it is right there at the manifold could create a hot spot. So the next time I get to play, I'll re-torque the bolts.
ChuckD
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Kerman, CA
arty:
Boatwrench
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Petaluma, CA
Chuck,
Congradulations. The BAR really has folks over the barrel regarding non-passing smog vehicles. Probably why so many go unregistered.
What did you do over the last six weeks that made the difference?
Thanks,
Tom
Congradulations. The BAR really has folks over the barrel regarding non-passing smog vehicles. Probably why so many go unregistered.
What did you do over the last six weeks that made the difference?
Thanks,
Tom
ChuckD
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Kerman, CA
