Opinions on the best possible rock rails...

[RCP Phx]

I agree. My old Custom4x4 fabrication rails were attached the to pinch seam in 3 places, but they had the angle run along it the entire length....spreading the load nicely. By the time I got done beating up on them for about 2 years, my pinch seam looked rather wavy (see pic below). IMO, they held up as well as they did because of how well the forces were spread out along this area.

With only two short areas of support along the pinch seam.....I don't know that they would hold up that well in the center....where you tend to hit a lot of rocks.

http://www.custom4x4fabrication.com/armor.html

Brian
www.projectxj.com

I third this thought,I used 1" x .120" square tube the entire length of the pinch seam.When under construction you could jack up the entire side of the XJ with just the 1x1"!

 

[Jeepin Jason]

Regarding Detours' pinch seam mount, while I do think that "visually" a full length pinch seam mount would be more appealing to folks, you gotta remember that those things are connected to their big frame stiffener sections with some substantial looking tubing (vs the 1" box that most others use), so I doubt you'll see much deflection of the legs.

I'm currently running a set of RRO Step Rails, and they've served me well. Had Custom4x4's 2x4" rails been out back when I got my RRO Step Rails, I'd have gotten the 2x4" rails instead. Marty at RLF is working on his new Skink Sliders, which are going to be awesome. You can see pics of his prototypes here: http://www.rocklizardfabrications.com/skink_sliders.htm Prices are supposed to be in the $260 range, and he's planning to offer an optional tube bar (similar to the JKS/ORGS SuperNerfs) and he may even make a 2x4" version as well. These are probably what I will replace my RRO steprails with because I think they'll be a stronger platform for a future exocage. The Detours ones are definitely nice, but they won't work with my current belly skid.

 

[TrailHunter]

I would search for the sliders that loose the least amount of ground clearance. The Detour set looses 2 or 3" (can't tell from the picture which side is what lenth) below the pinch seam.

I boxed my rockers in and while this isn't always practial for everyone, I almost never hit them on anything because I gained an inch of clearance. Less is more. While this won't work for XJs, most TJ sliders just have a piece of 1/4" angle iron wrapped around that corner which is ideal.

 

[Roxtar]

I doubt you'll see much deflection of the legs.

The deflexion doesn't come in the legs or any part of the rock rails. The damage comes to the body.
What happens (I've seen it first hand) is the pinch seam and surounding areas of the floor pan can get pushed up into the body. That's why I like to see as much surface area as possible to support it.

 

[skyjackerXJ]

I would search for the sliders that loose the least amount of ground clearance. The Detour set looses 2 or 3" (can't tell from the picture which side is what lenth) below the pinch seam.

I'm not following you...how exactly are you losing ground clearance with Detour's rock rails?

 

[basalt51]

I'm not following you...how exactly are you losing ground clearance with Detour's rock rails?

You're putting 2" of steel under the rocker, therefore losing 2" of ground clearance.

 

[Jeepin Jason]

The deflexion doesn't come in the legs or any part of the rock rails. The damage comes to the body.
What happens (I've seen it first hand) is the pinch seam and surounding areas of the floor pan can get pushed up into the body. That's why I like to see as much surface area as possible to support it.

The pinch seam can't get damaged if there's no deflection in the rails. No movement = no damage.

I like to see as much pinch seam contact as possible too, but that's because the frame mounts for most rockrails still allow for some deflection, hence the need to "support" the rails with a full length pinch seam mount.

 

[Hammertoe]

At the pinch seam, you loose 1.5", the outrigger is placed at the bottom
of the slyder.

Any connection which attatches to the pinch lip is only as good as your pinch
lip.........if you've got rust or rot...(they rot from the inside out)...this would
apply to the floor area as well, afterall...XJ's are mostly 16 gage steel pressed
& formed for strength.

 

[basalt51]

RRO - 3 different vehicles. Mine clearly moved at the frame, where the 2 self tapping bolts actually pulled the "frame" out a little. On the black XJ, the 1x1 bent. I'm not sure about the last blue one. RRO's bolt along most of the pinch seem. Clearly that isn't enough with crappy frame side mounts. Kevin's sliderz don't even mount to the pinch seem, so clearly he thinks just the frame side is good enough. After spending $300 on RRO rails, I'm a little sceptical about all sliders, but the more mounting the better. I'll probably box mine eventually too, since thats without a doubt the best way to go.

 

[RCP Phx]

Marty at RLF is working on his new Skink Sliders, which are going to be awesome. You can see pics of his prototypes here: http://www.rocklizardfabrications.com/skink_sliders.htm Prices are supposed to be in the $260 range, and he's planning to offer an optional tube bar (similar to the JKS/ORGS SuperNerfs) and he may even make a 2x4" version as well. These are probably what I will replace my RRO steprails with because I think they'll be a stronger platform for a future exocage.

Thats a good looking rail!!!!

 

[mdwatkins]

Looks really good but I see one big problem with this design. If you look at the typical upward force applied to the rails you'll quickly see that the pinch seam mount takes most of the upward stress. You have a 10" lever arm from the frame rail to the rock rail. The pinch seam mount is the only real strengthening feature to overcome the upward force on that arm. I've found that the best designs have the greatest surface area on the pinch seam mount to spread this force over the whole floor. These massive frame rail mounts will definately stiffen the frame but the small pinch seam flanges will seriously compromise the design for what it's intended to do, keep the body off the rocks.
As a frame stiffener it's a nice design. As a rock rail, not so much.

I agree...I've eyed these with a sense of suspicion since they were revealed awhile back. I just don't see how you're not going to end up without any flex in the arms without a full support along the pinchseam...just because you've got a giant steel plate on the frame doesn't solve the problems of flex at the rockers...

I've also yet to see any real world pic of these in action that those of us out here in the west can use...I'm sure they're probably great in the mud and stumps etc of the east, but where's the unforgiving rock pics? where's the shelf drop off pics? where are the boulder pivot pics? Give me something that is going to convince me that they can hold up in the rocks, all while preventing any rocker damage.

Matt

 

[Roxtar]

The pinch seam can't get damaged if there's no deflection in the rails. No movement = no damage.

I like to see as much pinch seam contact as possible too, but that's because the frame mounts for most rockrails still allow for some deflection, hence the need to "support" the rails with a full length pinch seam mount.

Oh, I see what you mean now. Again, the deflexion won't be in the rails,. It'll be in the body Look at the rock rail as a lever arm, the force being applied to the slider and the pivot being the frame rail. The frame rail is only 12 gage steel at best. If you put 2000lbs of upward force on the slider there's no way that frame rail will hold that force by itself without deflecting. The frame rail will bend where the arm is mounted. Now add a support 2"-3" away from the slider (the pinch seam) and everything gets much stronger. Now you're actually pivoting on that support and the frame rail has a mechanical advantage instead of a disadvantage. (greater distance from the pinch seam support to the frame rail than the pinch seam to the slider.) The pinch seam support is what gives it the real strength BUT it also has to be up to the task of withstanding that force.

 

[Jeepin Jason]

Looks like we both understand what the other is talking about now... however, the mounting system of the Detoirs rails is unique in that the "arms" are mounted to the whole frame rail, extending from the leaf spring hanger to the LCA mount. They're not like RRO's and other that have some piddly 3" wide plate with a couple of self-tapping bolts.

Again though, I'd like to see a full-length pinch seam mount out of either angle or 1x1" on the Detours rails -- even if it's not "needed", I think it would provide a bit of peace of mind.

 

[skyjackerXJ]

You're putting 2" of steel under the rocker, therefore losing 2" of ground clearance.

Yeah, that's understood, but how much of a difference does that make when almost every rock rail made sits above the height of the bottom of the frame rail? Sure you use ground clearance by putting on rock rails on, but how often do you pass over an obstacle that you'd bottom out on you rockers before you bottom out on your TC crossmember?

Edit: I went back to reread TrailHunter's post..I understand what he was getting at now.

 

[armchairkrawler]

Another point to note about the Detours rails is that the two bolt-on points, at the LCA bracket and rear forward spring mount, are backed up by the 4 weld spots. Those weld spots are not on the vertical side of the "frame" rail, but on the bottom face, if I remember correctly. So the frame stiffener bears against the vertical face, essentially across the whole frame rail (front to back), and the actual torque to which you refer, via the arms from the rail to the stiffener, is applied to the weld puddles, backed up by the stiffener's contact with the frame rail. It's not nearly as likely to deform the rail by pulling out the screws, as mentioned by someone using RRO models.

As to ground clearance, you're only as tall as your lowest point. Front-to-back, that's really your t-case skid, as your LCA brackets would probably be covered by the tire as it departs the obstacle. Your t-case skid is even lower than your frame rail. At least by reinforcing the frame rail, when it does hit something, that load is again spread out over the entire contact area between the stiffener and the bottom of the frame rail. Additionally, the vertical cross-section of the stiffener will also act essentially as an I-beam, making it difficult to displace the stiffener in the vertical direction, leading to damage of the frame rail.

 

[skyjackerXJ]

As to ground clearance, you're only as tall as your lowest point. .

That's what I was trying to say!

 

[armchairkrawler]

I don't know if this is really worthy of discussion here, but what do folks have to say about the RockRatz(?) trail rails. They're 3/16" plate, formed to the rocker panel itself, and attached w/ self-tapping screws, or optional expander nuts and bolts. They definately won't keep the idiot at the mall from dinging your door, and you're still exposed to damage to the pinch seam and frame rail, but they weigh at least half as much as actual rock rails. I'm hesitant to put screws into anything I cant get inside of and seal w/ silicone or whatever. Some friends and I have bounced around the idea of expanding foam, but volume control would be tough. I was thinking along the lines of high end industrial structural adhesives, designed to bond metal to metal. 3M makes a urethane adhesive for painted or primed metal surfaces with an overlap strength of about 2000 psi, and peel strength of about the same. No drilling, and the adhesive would seal the area against infiltration of water, salt spray, etc.

Take a look:
http://rockratz.com/cherokeebodyprot.html

 

[Hammertoe]

The plug weld areas 'are' on the 'vertical' side......locations are on either
both sides of the inibody seams......

80% of our product ships to the west coast.....to include Utah.

Those who request/have requested, can get or have gotten a full length
pinch lip connection. (we've only gotten 1 request in the past) Same goes for
width, want them a bit wider......no problem.

All mud and stumps.....he hee....we've been pushed onto the rock most likely
more so than anywhere else in the U.S...........and they're trying to take that
away as well. New Hamphsire is known as Granite State, Massachusetts most
wheel in the Berkshire Mountains area, Vermont theres good stuff in the
Green Mountain area, Maine....ha ha....Maine is nuttin but rock.........

 

[Lucas]

I'm not sure if its been said or not, but any aftermarket rockrail will bned/flex/deflect if you hit it hard enough. ANY.The actual rail might not bend, but it may flex into the rocker and crimp it. If you do a lot of rocks but wheel pretty carefully then you'll be fine. If you routinely drop the body straight onto the rockers then you might want to consider replacing the entire rocker with box steel.

 

[basalt51]

That's what I was trying to say!

Here's the difference. Clearance where the rocks are is what matters. If your skidplates are low thats a different clearance issue.