Obama and Marxist parallels

[ECKSJAY]

Oh, I see.

So it's ridiculous to mandate that people protect their own freedoms and liberties by making them undergo 3 months of civil service? What'll happen if we ever run out of volunteers?

Yes. Have we ever run out of volunteers? Last I checked, our Nation was founded by volunteers.

Again, though, how is this any different than mandated education or mandated social security taxes?

Who said those were justified? Mandating ANYTHING other than allowing personal freedoms is unconstitutional.

edit: or at the very least, arm the American population with basic skills and know-how in case the sh*t hits the fan?

These are skills that are traditionally passed on when you raise your children. We've become so complacent and materialistic that many have lost their roots.

 

[bigalpha]

Yes. Have we ever run out of volunteers? Last I checked, our Nation was founded by volunteers.

Never run out of volunteers. Mainly playing devil's advocate on that, but it's still something to consider.

Who said those were justified? Mandating ANYTHING other than allowing personal freedoms is unconstitutional.

Sure, but nobody is pitching a fit because we mandate school until we're 18.

These are skills that are traditionally passed on when you raise your children. We've become so complacent and materialistic that many have lost their roots.

True. Though, some of our parents weren't given those skills when they were raised either. Kind of a never-ending feedback loop.

 

[ECKSJAY]

Never run out of volunteers. Mainly playing devil's advocate on that, but it's still something to consider.

I don't think it's much to worry about. Some folks pray for a societal collapse so they can live in relative peace...life without interference.

Sure, but nobody is pitching a fit because we mandate school until we're 18.

Mandate all ya want...there's also home-schooling. It's possible to do without making your child a social retard.

True. Though, some of our parents weren't given those skills when they were raised either. Kind of a never-ending feedback loop.

Some of us were blessed that way. Mom was from the city and specialized in domestic skills...though her adopted Father was Indian and taught her outdoor survival skills. Dad grew up in a rural agricultural environment, perfecting farming and mechanical skills. What he didn't learn about the outdoors growing up in the Midwest, he learned from Mom. They taught me (and my Brother) at very young ages how to be self-sufficient...and I'm teaching my daughters the same even younger than that. In addition to the above, I was taught in combat support and small arms by the Army. I like to think of us as displaced in the city. I think we need to be on a farm in BFE, supporting ourselves.

 

[Boatwrench]

Reading some of the repsonses in this thread I can't help but think of the aviators across the passageway. I can't see the forest becuase the trees are in the way. What other bad analogy can I pull out of my...aww never mind.

reminds me of someones sig...Kdailey4315. "Republican because not everyone can be on welfare"

 

[PurpleCherokee]

And ya can't use things like public schooling and jury duty to prove that this "civilian task force" is ok. Those things serve an actual purpose, granted public school is a joke but most of us turned out ok because of it... or in spite of it :gee:. Nevermind the logistics of it, it's wholly unconstitutional. But who needs the constitution, BO's already making plans to correct it. :scared:

Public school link

 

[Boatwrench]

But who needs the constitution,

"it's just a piece of paper" <- where have we heard that said before?

I guess the public school education was a waste...you need to learn some more civics. The President does not have the authority to change The Constitution. Trample over it, maybe, but not change it.

In another thread you never responded when I asked are you from Cabool?

 

[Darky]

I suppose I'll be unpopular...Obama's plans aside, I'm not entirely against the idea of some sort of mandatory service. It doesn't require socialism, Israel is a democracy and everyone is mandated ti serve in their military. I think it's a 2 yr stint. And yes, I knowall of the arguments about being in the fighting hole next to someone who doesn't want to be there. There's more to military/civil service than being on the front lines. I mean, as it is now, if you enter the Marine Corps open contract, you will not be sent infantry. We could just expand that so that you have to select infantry in order to be infantry. It'd be good for our kids and our country to have some discipline forced on em. Parents today won't do it. I spent 5 yrs in the USMC and it was a very positive experience, deployment, demotion, and all. Make it a 2 yr stint and then you can get out and go to college, go to work, or stay in.

 

[Boatwrench]

I suppose I'll be unpopular...Obama's plans aside, I'm not entirely against the idea of some sort of mandatory service. It doesn't require socialism, Israel is a democracy and everyone is mandated ti serve in their military. I think it's a 2 yr stint. And yes, I knowall of the arguments about being in the fighting hole next to someone who doesn't want to be there. There's more to military/civil service than being on the front lines. I mean, as it is now, if you enter the Marine Corps open contract, you will not be sent infantry. We could just expand that so that you have to select infantry in order to be infantry. It'd be good for our kids and our country to have some discipline forced on em. Parents today won't do it. I spent 5 yrs in the USMC and it was a very positive experience, deployment, demotion, and all. Make it a 2 yr stint and then you can get out and go to college, go to work, or stay in.

It doesn't need to be military service to be service to the country. It could be grafitti removal or picking up trash along a stream bed. Reading stories to elderly in homes or young ones at a library. Walking pound puppies.

 

[bigalpha]

It doesn't need to be military service to be service to the country. It could be grafitti removal or picking up trash along a stream bed. Reading stories to elderly in homes or young ones at a library. Walking pound puppies.

I agree with this. The fundamental problem, though, is that it's mandatory. While I usually agree the government has too much hand in our personal life, something like this could be hugely beneficial.

 

[Boatwrench]

that it's mandatory.

I guess that is really what everyone's hang up is. We as Free men do not like to be told what to do...but there are lot's of things that are manadatory in this world. Not literally, but figuratively, that we do to be a productive society and lessen chaos...such as driving on the correct side of the highway, stopping at red lights, going through airport screening...

 

[bigalpha]

I guess that is really what everyone's hang up is. We as Free men do not like to be told what to do...but there are lot's of things that are manadatory in this world. Not literally, but figuratively, that we do to be a productive society and lessen chaos...such as driving on the correct side of the highway, stopping at red lights, going through airport screening...

Yeah. I can see their point of view, though. You let the government make you do this one thing, then they are making you do another, and another, etc.

I still think it's a good idea, though.

 

[5spd_xj]

So, I *may* have opened a sort of can 'o worms, hm? I am glad though, that there has been no flaming, and just good old proving points, debating, etc... With both sides making good and reasonable points!

 

[JNickel101]

going through airport screening...

I smell a tangent....

for instance...

If everyone on the Sept 11th flights had knives and boxcutters, the entire incident would have been prevented.....

atriot:

 

[ECKSJAY]

I smell a tangent....

for instance...

If everyone on the Sept 11th flights had knives and boxcutters, the entire incident would have been prevented.....

atriot:

Ooooh, can I further the tangent and say that if people had been doing their jobs this might have been prevented? Communication between Government agencies, for instance? :rof:

 

[JNickel101]

Ooooh, can I further the tangent and say that if people had been doing their jobs this might have been prevented? Communication between Government agencies, for instance? :rof:

helps if the previous CiC hadn't gutted those gov't agencies and cut the hell out of their funding....but yes, I agree!

 

[ECKSJAY]

helps if the previous CiC hadn't gutted those gov't agencies and cut the hell out of their funding....but yes, I agree!

Ah, secure-faxing to another agency doesn't have much to do with funding...but sure!

 

[Boatwrench]

Ah, secure-faxing to another agency doesn't have much to do with funding...but sure!

There's no I in Team. It was pure ego...and CIA deals in Intelligence and FBI deals with evidence.

 

[ECKSJAY]

There's no I in Team. It was pure ego...and CIA deals in Intelligence and FBI deals with evidence.

There sure is an I in FAIL though. :looser:

 

[5spd_xj]

There is also an I in CIA and also in FBI heh

 

[JNickel101]

Everything I read said that the intel analysts for the CIA and NSA didn't discover the plot (or the intel dealing with it) til Sept 12th.

http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a953goodnews

quick google search confirms what I remember...

funny how many more Arabic linguists we have working for NSA today....THAT is a product of funding/gutting/cutbacks....