New York attempting to outlaw Spinnerz

[Yucca-Man]

I like the idea - how many times have you seen a car with 'spinners' at a red light or stop sign and had to look twice to make sure the CAR was actually stopped?

I can understand some of the concern SEMA has over this issue, but for overall safety of other drivers it's a good deal to ban them:

In what could be the state’s first step in limiting custom wheel and hubcap options for motor vehicle enthusiasts, legislation (S.B. 4740) that would prohibit the sale and use of motor vehicles equipped with spinner hubcaps has been introduced in the New York State Legislature by State Senator John Sabini ([email protected]). S.B. 4740 would subject vehicle owners to fines of up to $750 for a third or subsequent violation. Those convicted of selling spinner hubcaps can be fined $150 for each violation. The bill has been referred to the Senate Transportation Committee for consideration.

We Urge You to Contact Members of the New York Senate Transportation Committee (List Below) Immediately To Request Their Opposition to S.B. 4740

S.B. 4740 ignores the fact that custom wheels are not prohibited by Federal law and should not be restricted in New York.


S.B. 4740 ignores the fact that the Federal government rescinded the entire hub cap standard in 1996 when it was concluded that there was no safety problem relating to hub caps and that the standard was overly design-restrictive.


S.B. 4740 ignores the fact that manufacturers are required to notify the federal government of a safety problem or defect related to motor vehicle equipment within five days of becoming aware of such issue.


S.B. 4740 ignores the fact that spinner hubcaps have no proven detrimental effect on motor vehicle safety.

DON’T DELAY! Please contact Senator Sabini and members of the New York Senate Transportation Committee immediately by phone or e-mail to request their opposition to this bill. Please e-mail a copy of your letter to [email protected]. Thank you for your assistance.

Discuss.

 

[Gil BullyKatz]

Hell...

Around here the cops can't seem to do anything about most of the warrants for the drivers much less enforce wheel legislation...

Another law to make harrasment easier maybe?

There's idiots driving that have had their licenses revoked/suspended for 30+ infractions of DUI...

I'd rather legislation that makes it mandatory for anyone over 60 to pass an eye/hearing exam every year...

 

[red91]

Hillary probably start that crap....

 

[mrb502]

we shouldn't be behind legislation like that, hell our "thing" is under enough scrutiny and anything that makes it easy to target lawful insured vehicles is not in our best intrest. having said that the spinners make for a great target for the leo's, due to the "type" of person who would buy theese types of mods.

 

[5-90]

I'm one of the last people to say "there oughta be a law!" but I've long been convinced that anything that constitutes some sort of willful risk to the safety of others should not be allowed (conversely, there is no reason I should be subject to laws designed to save me from myself - that's not of anyone else's damn business. There's a huge difference between being peacefully drunk on foot and being drunk behind the wheel - and that's why cops exercise discretion on D&D charges.)

I've got to go "with" this one tho - I see those damn wheels around here all the time, and I've always got to look again at lights to see if they really are STOPPED, or if I should stand on my own brakes.

While we're on the subject - no using cellphones for more than 30 seconds while driving. Why 30 seconds? That's enough time to tell whoever called you (if you made the call, all bets are off!) that you're on the road and will call back when you stop. Penalty? No fine - suspension for six months. Put them on Transit where they can call all the want, or have time to think about what they did wrong.

Yes, this includes "hands-free." Look around you and see hay many people are distracted and talking animatedly to no-one. I see people on the phone in their cars talking like they're on the phone in the kitchen - twiddling the cord and suchlike. I've lost count of how many times I've had to take immediate evasive action because someone's on the phone and hot watching what they're doing - then hold up the phone like it's a valid excuse! Somehow, I forget to use ALL my fingers when I wave back - just the one...

I'm not going to object to modifying vehicles in general - that's an expression of one's personality (and one we can all relate to here!) However, I have a problem with modifying a vehicle in a manner that reduces the operational safety of the vehicle - cutting springs to lower the ride height is a good example. If you have springs rewound to maintain spring rate and suspension action, that's fine. Lifting a vehicle? Have the springs set up properly and make sure that steering geometry is retained, and we're fine. Stuff like on "scary steering" should get people locked up!

I'll get off my soapbox now - but this is probably familiar to anyone who's talked to me for more than five straight minutes...

5-90

 

[RichP]

I bitched about them last year when I saw one that caused an accident. Truck coming the other way slammed on his brakes and all his ladders came off the roof. Two feet futher in my lane and one of those ladders would have gone thru my windshield. Those spinners were on a caddy or lincoln SUV, that was the first time I ever saw them outside a TV show. Never even thought about them till then, don't like them on street vehicles.

 

[ChicksDigWagons]

You know, I'm all for the safety of others as well, but establishing standards for things like "scary steering" or "having the springs set up properly" only is not going to happen. From a legislative point of view anything other than OEM equipment should be outlawed. The government does not believe us as idividuals have the capacity to make our own decisions or take our own risks. Driving in an automobile is a risk, whether due to your own fault or the fault of another you could die at any time - regardless of how safe you are. If an 18wheeler runs a red you're crushed, should we outlaw 18 wheelers? How about Buses? That would do a number on a Honda Civic I would say? We have people on one side saying spinners should be gone, and you know what their side is saying? Lifted rigs and off road tires should be outlawed. And they have as legit reasons as anybody to complain about our hobby, and the lawmakers don't make sense of any of it because the vast majority of them are puppets anyhow.

My opinion is that less legislation is better, period.

 

[ChicksDigWagons]

I bitched about them last year when I saw one that caused an accident. Truck coming the other way slammed on his brakes and all his ladders came off the roof. Two feet futher in my lane and one of those ladders would have gone thru my windshield. Those spinners were on a caddy or lincoln SUV, that was the first time I ever saw them outside a TV show. Never even thought about them till then, don't like them on street vehicles.

So you're pissed about the guy with the spinners and not the guy who wasn't paying close enough attention and didn't have his ladders secured either?
:wierd:

Give me a break, but this is typical. Guy in a truck, with ladders, probably a much closer demographic than the guy in the 'blingin' escalade so the blame falls on the guy who was minding the law, stopped when he should be stopped...

 

[Osprey413]

I don't get this. I have never looked at a cars wheels to make sure the car was actually stopped. Instead I look at the car itself, and if it isn't moving then it isn't going anywhere. Who stands on their brakes when someone next to you peels out? I'm not trying to defend the wheels, I don't like them and I think they are silly, but people should simply pay more attention when driving instead of blaming everyone else for their careless mistakes. Now, on the subject of spinners, has anyone been worried about one flying off and hitting oncoming traffic? That seems like a more plausable excuse for outlawing them, then people seeing optical illusions.

 

[RichP]

No, what I was pissed about was that it looked like the land yacht was running the stop sign out on to a main hiway where traffic, both me and the truck coming the other way, are doing 55-60mph along with the rest of the 9am rush hour traffic. The optical illusion created by those spinners does not que your eyes and mind that the vehicle has stopped, quite the contrary, it tells you the vehicle is still moving. You opinion may be 'well, tough, if you can't tell if a vehicle is moving then don't drive' you can KMA. I personally have over 1 MILLION accident free miles under my belt. When I see something unsafe I call it like I see it. While the spinners driver may not be in an accident I have to wonder how many they have caused by people slamming on their brakes to avoid the 'moving vehicle', the movement of wheels is a que to whether or not some one is still rolling. If I get in an accident as the result of someone who 'faked me out' with a set of those spinners you can bet it is not going to end there, I will become that drivers worst legal nitemare....
Take it from the flip side, equip all the vehicles with spinners then try to split second spot the one running the stop sign or other signal that does not have them, same difference...

 

[Beej]

Spinners are a communist plot...

Designed to hypnotize...

 

[RichP]

I don't get this. I have never looked at a cars wheels to make sure the car was actually stopped. Instead I look at the car itself, and if it isn't moving then it isn't going anywhere. Who stands on their brakes when someone next to you peels out? I'm not trying to defend the wheels, I don't like them and I think they are silly, but people should simply pay more attention when driving instead of blaming everyone else for their careless mistakes. Now, on the subject of spinners, has anyone been worried about one flying off and hitting oncoming traffic? That seems like a more plausable excuse for outlawing them, then people seeing optical illusions.

Whether you realize it or not the wheels turning IS a visual cue, subconscious maybe, but it is still there. WHen you are driving in heavy high speed traffic you use all the cues you can get....

 

[nhrocker]

I couldn't care one way or the other about spinners being banned. I personally don't like the look of them on almost any vehicle, so if they're banned, they're banned.

What does bother me is the fine to dealers that sell them. I haven't read the proposed law, but what if a dealer sells the spinners to someone setting up a trailer-queen show car? As most people on here know, we buy parts that are for "off-road use only." Couldn't the same be done for parts like spinners?

 

[5-90]

Fine - then something like the notice that sez "Some parts are not for sale or use on pollution-controlled vehicles" - only alter it to say they're for "show-only" cars that' won't be driven on public roadways.

The only laws that should be had are those who protect people from THE ACTIONS OF OTHER PEOPLE. I have a problem with people trying to protect me from me - but making assault illegal is perfectly understandable.

Making half-assed mods to vehicles should be illegal - but there's nothing wrong with making mods with parts that are designed to do so safely. Having a spring would to lower a car by an inch and a half without bouncing all day after running over a dime is just fine - cutting the spring and making it bounce all over the place is not. That's my point - if you can effect the mods without endangering someone else, that's fine. If you can't, DON'T DO IT!

The problem with "spinnerz" is that it offers a cue that the vehicle is moving - even if it is not. This is bad - taking RichP's case, the failure to tie down ladders would have been a non-issue if it had appeared that the crossing vehicle was fully stopped. This is not approving of driving about with an unsecured load (a MAJOR pet peeve of mine!) but it would have been less of a problem had the vehicle crossing appeared fully stopped.

Here in Kalifornistan, I see all sorts of half-assed mods, and all sorts of stupid drivers, and the two seem to go together for some reason (you're in a parking lot - SLOW DOWN!!!)

I also think that there should be rather more stringent testing of drivers prior to issuing a license - we seem to have forgotten that driving is a PRIVILEGE, not a RIGHT, and that is why licenses are issued. The use of a license and testing implies that certain minimum standards should be in place - here in California, they seem to be a pulse, minimum visual perception, and about three functional brain cells. When I came out here, I wondered at the number of accidents. Now, I wonder that there aren't more - I've been all over this rock, and I can honestly say that the worst drivers I've seen anywhere are here.

Now look what you made me do - I got started rambling. I'll shut up now.

5-90

I couldn't care one way or the other about spinners being banned. I personally don't like the look of them on almost any vehicle, so if they're banned, they're banned.

What does bother me is the fine to dealers that sell them. I haven't read the proposed law, but what if a dealer sells the spinners to someone setting up a trailer-queen show car? As most people on here know, we buy parts that are for "off-road use only." Couldn't the same be done for parts like spinners?

 

[ChicksDigWagons]

Well, I agree that poorly done modifications should be banned...but what you're failing to see is the logistical problems with enforcing that, and the pandoras box it opens. While you may think a "properly" lifted jeep is perfectly safe, there are hordes of people who think any jeep is evil, ESPECIALLY the extra big and off-road capable ones. Furthermore, these nuts don't think it should be legal at ALL, let alone on the street.

Personally I don't like spinners either nhrocker, thats my taste. My point is that there is somebody out there that doesn't like modified Jeeps either. So does that mean its okay to ban either? Some would argue that a modified jeep could be a distraction, or a hazard because of a high center of gravity which could potentially endanger other drivers in the event of a roll-over. I would in fact wager to bet there has been more fatalities due to lifted jeeps than spinners.

So lets ban lifted jeeps too, just to make sure...

 

[5-90]

Point taken. However (and not to split hairs) you should also bear in mind that a lot of the reason Jeeps/SUV's get rolled is tied in with the current manufacturing trend to make them ride "more like a car." Problem here is that they're NOT cars - they're trucks, and can/should/usually do ride like such. Where this becomes a problem is when someone takes one and expects it to handle like a small car - which it isn't. Which then gets them into trouble. Whereupon they sue the mfr for their own damnfoolishness, and we get these pregnant roller skates that are out of their element on a gravel road.

I'll go back to my idea of improving driver certification - perhaps "type certification" like we have with pilot's licenses might not be a bad idea? Maybe not all the way down to make/model, but certify people by type of vehicle - like we do with commercial licences (hazmat/double/triple/bobtails/busses/whatever.) If you want to drive something apart from a regular little sedan, you should have to demonstrate competence in such before you can start.

Y'ask me, a LOT of the problems on the road are caused by incompetent/unqualified drivers. Discuss.

5-90

Well, I agree that poorly done modifications should be banned...but what you're failing to see is the logistical problems with enforcing that, and the pandoras box it opens. While you may think a "properly" lifted jeep is perfectly safe, there are hordes of people who think any jeep is evil, ESPECIALLY the extra big and off-road capable ones. Furthermore, these nuts don't think it should be legal at ALL, let alone on the street.

Personally I don't like spinners either nhrocker, thats my taste. My point is that there is somebody out there that doesn't like modified Jeeps either. So does that mean its okay to ban either? Some would argue that a modified jeep could be a distraction, or a hazard because of a high center of gravity which could potentially endanger other drivers in the event of a roll-over. I would in fact wager to bet there has been more fatalities due to lifted jeeps than spinners.

So lets ban lifted jeeps too, just to make sure...

 

[bjoehandley]

If lawmakers are concerned about driver distraction, why not ban hot blonds with nice,...uh....er.....you get the idea, from convertable ownership.................

Y'ask me, a LOT of the problems on the road are caused by incompetent/unqualified drivers. Discuss

I think that is the biggest problem.

I normally use vehicle position compaired to a stationary object (light pole, stopsign, other traffic) to determine if the car is moving.

 

[Osprey413]

I completely agree. Although I am not a perfect driver (totalled my first Jeep when I first started driving), I see an extremely large group of people that should even be allowed to ride a bike down a sidewalk. The increasing epedimic of "ricer" and the types of people that drive these coffee can exhaust cars are way more of a threat to innocent drivers than spinners will ever be. I have nothing against modified imports with neon and NO2, but the vast majority of the people driving these cars deem it necissary to drive like the idiots in "Too Fast, Too Furious". Atleast with lifted Jeeps and trucks, our speeds are usually cept to a minimum to save our tires, if not simply because the air resistance keeps us from going over 85. That said, I have seen lifted Jeep and trucks being driven by people who pretend to be Subaru WRX's and weave in and out of traffic. Law makers should focus more on making people good drivers and spend less money and time trying to make silly modifications illegal.

The spinner wheels very well may be a distraction or an accident causing optical illusion, and there will probably be much debate over whether or not they should be legal, but they should not be used in any way as an excuse for bad driving. Although I personally have not had the sensation that the car next to me was moving because it had spinners, I do know what it feels like because of that mean little trick people play by rolling backward slowly making it seem like you are moving forward. I can see how under certain circumstances the spinners would cause visual cues to cause someone to over-react, but I can also see the arguement coming from the other side that the person who slammed on their brakes because of an optical illusion was simply not paying attention.

I am not trying to bash anyone who is for this legislation, I am just saying that if this goes through, then we could infact be shooting ourselves in the feet.

 

[bjoehandley]

Unfortunetly, the regular drivers in this area are just as much of a pain as the "ricer" type if not more so, just in their own special ways.

 

[nhrocker]

I'll go back to my idea of improving driver certification - perhaps "type certification" like we have with pilot's licenses might not be a bad idea? Maybe not all the way down to make/model, but certify people by type of vehicle - like we do with commercial licences (hazmat/double/triple/bobtails/busses/whatever.) If you want to drive something apart from a regular little sedan, you should have to demonstrate competence in such before you can start.

Now that is a good idea! I've seen too many people driving a variety of SUV's, trucks, and other vehicles that think they can drive it the same as the front wheel drive car's they learned to drive in. With auto companies trying to get all vehicles to handle, perform, and ride like every other type of vehicle, people don't seem to realize that they're all still VERY different.

It also goes the other direction. Every winter I see the people crashing off the roads in their 4x4's because they overestimated the ability of their vehicle. I had a friend tell me "I can get to work fine now that I've got four wheel drive, I don't have to worry about the snow when I drive it." Now a large part of that was her own misconceptions, but having some type of competency testing or course for a specific style of vehicle could help to make people more aware of the capabilities and drawbacks of the vehicle they're driving.