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new idea for hi-mount alternator....
- Thread starter moparjim1987
- Start date
userbmx1315
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Dallas, NC
sorry to bring up an old post but. . . . any pics of this completed and no one ever said that it was just a bolt on
5-90
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Hammerspace
badron said:OK, I will be the bad guy.
How much hotter will the alt run setting high in the engine compartment? If any hotter. Up high it will see air after it passes through the rad.
Some cool air ducting to the alt or hood vents MAY be needed.
Some of the Fords use ducts for this reason. They may be adaptable if needed at all.
I like being the bad guy!
Fair enough - counter-arguments:
1) Installing some variety of hood vent isn't a bad idea anyhow. I tend to think that the operating temperature of the AMC242 is fairly high (I don't like running 205-210*,) and you can always stick a fan under them to increase airflow (have it blowing upwards.)
2) If you are worried "on the spot," just pull the inside hood latch. The two latch in the front centre will still hold the hood shut, but the springs will push it up a couple of inches, and you'll get loads of additional airflow that way, especially at speed. I don't recommend this past about 35-40mph, but I've had it come in handy in traffic...
- Location
- Southern Maryland
I looked at the WJ alternator setup and while it's higher on the accessory belt than the XJ it's not really high
OTOH here is what the 2000-and-up TJ 4.0 looks like
The alternator is on the top passenger, and the A/C has been moved to the power steering area. I don't have details on how it bolts up (it's the 2000 head so it might have different studs or mounts), but this might work if the airbox can be relocated.
OTOH here is what the 2000-and-up TJ 4.0 looks like
The alternator is on the top passenger, and the A/C has been moved to the power steering area. I don't have details on how it bolts up (it's the 2000 head so it might have different studs or mounts), but this might work if the airbox can be relocated.
- Location
- Southern Maryland
Hmmph, I have to correct myself, apparently I was looking at a 99 WJ. Here are some pics of a 2004 WJ 4.0 that I found on eBay
The alternator setup looks similar to the TJ but I can't see the A/C compressor
The alternator setup looks similar to the TJ but I can't see the A/C compressor
- Location
- Southern Maryland
Well now I don't know what I was looking at in the yard.... I just looked at three different '99 WJ engines on ebay and all of them had the same distributor-less setup as the above pic.
ECKSJAY
Water is dirty
- Location
- Covington, WA
WJ's 4.0L AC compressor is under the power steering pump.
- Location
- Southern Maryland
nice pic, thanks! got one of those for the 2000+ TJ?
- Location
- Southern Maryland
This is the '98 TJ 4.0 with power steering and A/C compressor (this is what the ZJ layout looks like too I think)
This is the '04 TJ 4.0 with power steering and A/C compressor (which appears to be identical to the WJ layout above)
Images courtesy of stu-offroad.com
This is the '04 TJ 4.0 with power steering and A/C compressor (which appears to be identical to the WJ layout above)
Images courtesy of stu-offroad.com
morerpmfred
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- calgary
Why not index the alternater on the back half so that the brushes are at the top of the alternater in stead of the bottom where the mud jams them up. I get one alternater rebuild every two years instead of four in one year. Rebuilder does it for me so i do not know how he does it.
- Location
- Southern Maryland
A labeled view of the WJ
Note the absence of a fan pulley..
Note the absence of a fan pulley..
- Location
- Southern Maryland
I went at looked at a 2000 TJ owned by a guy in the local club
First, the alternator bracket on the TJ appears to bolt up exactly the same as the A/C compressor bracket on our junk. However, the idler pulley on 91-99 HO engines also mount to the A/C compressor bracket, but the PowerTech engines have a different idler setup that bolts to a tab on the head. Meanwhile, the 2000+ XJ also has the hole, but the idler pulley is on a separate plate under the power steering area. So as far as putting the PowerTech alternator onto an HO, it should bolt up, but you will also need to drill and tap a hole in the head to mount the PowerTech pulley, use a 2000/01 idler and plate, or do some fabrication work to in order to mount the HO idler pulley to the PowerTech alternator bracket. For 2000/01 XJ you can probably just install the alternator bracket and be done, since the pulley is off on the other side of the engine already.
The A/C compressor has similar problems. From what I can tell, the HO and PowerTech power steering pumps and reservoirs are basically the same dimensions. However the PowerTech water pump hose is immediately below the power steering setup (the inlet comes straight out the side), while the XJ HO and 00/01 both have water pumps with the inlet coming out at a downward angle. On the PowerTech, the A/C compressor is mounted immediately below the inlet hose, which is the area that the inlet hose on the XJ occupies (the 00/01 XJ also has the idler pulley in this area too). The guy I was looking at this stuff with says the water pumps are different but the block mounting area is the same and I suspect that he's right, so this may be feasible. I did not closely examine the mounting points for the PowerTech A/C compressor, but it did not seem like it would be hard to move. So all told it seems that the A/C compressor cannot be swapped unless the new style water pump is also swapped in, and a new hose may also be needed. For a 00/01 XJ, the idler pulley will also need to be relocated, either to the threaded tab on the head (you have the hole already), or using the XJ HO alternator bracket.
Basically it's doable, with the alternator being easier than the A/C compressor.
First, the alternator bracket on the TJ appears to bolt up exactly the same as the A/C compressor bracket on our junk. However, the idler pulley on 91-99 HO engines also mount to the A/C compressor bracket, but the PowerTech engines have a different idler setup that bolts to a tab on the head. Meanwhile, the 2000+ XJ also has the hole, but the idler pulley is on a separate plate under the power steering area. So as far as putting the PowerTech alternator onto an HO, it should bolt up, but you will also need to drill and tap a hole in the head to mount the PowerTech pulley, use a 2000/01 idler and plate, or do some fabrication work to in order to mount the HO idler pulley to the PowerTech alternator bracket. For 2000/01 XJ you can probably just install the alternator bracket and be done, since the pulley is off on the other side of the engine already.
The A/C compressor has similar problems. From what I can tell, the HO and PowerTech power steering pumps and reservoirs are basically the same dimensions. However the PowerTech water pump hose is immediately below the power steering setup (the inlet comes straight out the side), while the XJ HO and 00/01 both have water pumps with the inlet coming out at a downward angle. On the PowerTech, the A/C compressor is mounted immediately below the inlet hose, which is the area that the inlet hose on the XJ occupies (the 00/01 XJ also has the idler pulley in this area too). The guy I was looking at this stuff with says the water pumps are different but the block mounting area is the same and I suspect that he's right, so this may be feasible. I did not closely examine the mounting points for the PowerTech A/C compressor, but it did not seem like it would be hard to move. So all told it seems that the A/C compressor cannot be swapped unless the new style water pump is also swapped in, and a new hose may also be needed. For a 00/01 XJ, the idler pulley will also need to be relocated, either to the threaded tab on the head (you have the hole already), or using the XJ HO alternator bracket.
Basically it's doable, with the alternator being easier than the A/C compressor.
- Location
- Southern Maryland
Doh, I meant to add that relocating the A/C compress also requires extending the lines. Because of that and other factors, fabricating your own bracket to relocate the A/C compressor to the old alternator position actually starts to look attractive.
DirtyMJ
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Prince George, BC
ehall said:
But would it fit there? The clearance between the alternatore and frame rail is rather tight, IIRC, and I believe the A/C pump occupies a bit more space than it?
So, has anybody got pictures of anything that they've managed to pull off?
blue95xj
<---- Brrrrrrrr!
- Location
- arnold, mo
ehall said:
The older WJ's have a fan pulley but its one in the same with the water pump pulley. I believe the newer ones are all electric.
- Location
- Southern Maryland
Yeah, they use a single electric fan centered in the grille by default. They provide a viscous clutch fan (with the tow package I believe) and then they just bolt it to the water pump.blue95xj said:
Point is that there is not an off-set fan pulley like on the XJ, which affects belt routing a little bit.
- Location
- Southern Maryland
I'm picking up a ZJ 4.0 engine with brackets in the next few days and will be trying to mount the alternator up top using a WJ/TJ bracket, and try to modify the ZJ alternator bracket (which is in the middle of the bay instead of at the bottom) for use with the A/C compressor.DirtyMJ said:
- Location
- Southern Maryland
ehall said:
Looking at water pumps on rockauto, and they have really different mounting bolt patterns (flow holes look different too but I can't really tell).
Here is the ZJ/XJ water pump (identical for 91-01 btw)
Here is the WJ/TJ water pump
Since they bolt to the block differently I'm going to assume that they are not going to be interchangeable. Due to the hose routing, changing the water pump (or at least the hose) is a prerequisite to using the WJ/TJ A/C compressor, so I don't think this is feasible at all. I might buy a water pump just to see if it will mount to the block of the ZJ engine I'm getting but it doesn't look promising. I will also see if a WJ/TJ hose can be used without bending it so much that flow is restricted.
- Location
- Southern Maryland
I looked at the ZJ brackets and my '91 engine bay a little closer, and there's no way that the ZJ alternator bracket can be used in the XJ without modifications to the engine compartment--the battery placement prevents anything large from being mounted to the engine in that spot, and the A/C compressor is definitely too big to fit there. It might be possible if you relocate the cruise control diaphragm and rotate the battery tray but that is the minimum effort required.
Another option would be to take the A/C compressor bracket from a RENIX engine, which supposedly bolts up on the bottom where the XJ alternator usually sits (see this thread). If that works you can simply use the WJ/TJ alternator bracket to move the alternator up top, and use the RENIX A/C bracket to move the A/C compressor to the bottom, and otherwise keep the belt routing identical.
Another option would be to take the A/C compressor bracket from a RENIX engine, which supposedly bolts up on the bottom where the XJ alternator usually sits (see this thread). If that works you can simply use the WJ/TJ alternator bracket to move the alternator up top, and use the RENIX A/C bracket to move the A/C compressor to the bottom, and otherwise keep the belt routing identical.
