New Coils - Rubbing TB Bracket

[Euology101]

As title states, my new 4.5" RE Coils are rubbing on the OE Trackbar bracket "hump" on the driver side.

Did some quick reading, most people said "Trackbar needs to be adjusted" Well I went out and checked, and yes, I was off by about 1/4" so I did one full turn on the end, putting me more like 1/4" OUT on the driver side reassembled, went for a drive, still rubbing.

Specs:

4.5" RE Coils, New OE Isolators.
RC CA Drop Brackets
Stock CA's
JKS ADJ Track Bar
New tie rod, and Drag links

My pinion angle is dead nuts, haven't checked caster, but I was more worried about vibs from the DS.

One thing that I did notice is that BOTH coils, curve like banana towards the front of the jeep. Thinking about it, the caster angle would obviously adjust the angle of the coil perches, but I'm worried that if I adjust that, I'll throw out the pinion angle. Can't win.

Thoughts?

 

[VAhasnoWAVES]

on RE 4.5" coils and RC drop brackets, i pushed the castor adjuster all the way forward in the drop brackets, and had zero issues with vibes, HP D30.

i think adjusting the castor adjustment will do a couple of things for you... itll pitch the coil buckets rearward, fighting the bow you are seeing. it will also give you a tiny bit of stretch, again, helping to remove the bow.

you should also consider after market control arms, at least the others. fixed length is fine... but you want something with an offset joint at the axle side, or a bend in the control arm. the stockers hit on the shock mount and severely limit droop, though you may not see this as much with the drop brackets. regardless... the stock control arms dont stand up well to offroad abuse.

 

[Euology101]

on RE 4.5" coils and RC drop brackets, i pushed the castor adjuster all the way forward in the drop brackets, and had zero issues with vibes, HP D30.

i think adjusting the castor adjustment will do a couple of things for you... itll pitch the coil buckets rearward, fighting the bow you are seeing. it will also give you a tiny bit of stretch, again, helping to remove the bow.

you should also consider after market control arms, at least the others. fixed length is fine... but you want something with an offset joint at the axle side, or a bend in the control arm. the stockers hit on the shock mount and severely limit droop, though you may not see this as much with the drop brackets. regardless... the stock control arms dont stand up well to offroad abuse.

Glad someone else has a same set up to compare too.

I actually have Adj uppers (not installed yet), and I have lowers on the X-mas list, but I'm not sure I'll have those for a month or so, and I drive 110 miles a day. I'm not offroading at the moment, I have some steering work to finish up, and new tires, probably be spring time before I hit any rocks again.

I had a feeling the caster adjustment would be my issue. I broke one of the studs on the Caster Adjusters, so I guess I'll have to get a new one of those, and some shims. Thanks for the advice I'll give a shot.

Any chance you know what your pinion angle was/is? Or what your Caster was/is?

 

[VAhasnoWAVES]

Glad someone else has a same set up to compare too.

I actually have Adj uppers (not installed yet), and I have lowers on the X-mas list, but I'm not sure I'll have those for a month or so, and I drive 110 miles a day. I'm not offroading at the moment, I have some steering work to finish up, and new tires, probably be spring time before I hit any rocks again.

I had a feeling the caster adjustment would be my issue. I broke one of the studs on the Caster Adjusters, so I guess I'll have to get a new one of those, and some shims. Thanks for the advice I'll give a shot.

Any chance you know what your pinion angle was/is? Or what your Caster was/is?

i knocked the studs out of the castor adjuster and replaced them with longer bolts. then i stacked washers on each bolt to act as a shim and pushed the arm as far forward as possible... the stock studs are not long enough to completely push the shoe forward.

i dont specifically recall the castor... but 5.5* or 6.5* sounds familiar. i was enough to keep my 35s happy, which wandered terribly before i adjusted it.

 

[Euology101]

I just ordered new adjusters... hum, maybe I should cancel that order, and do what you said. Good call. Thanks for the heads up on that, appreciate your help!

 

[Tim_MN]

I replaced broken studs with bolts. Pinion angle is more important than caster angle, find a happy midpoint. I have no idea what either one measures on my 2000, but it works. I used an IRO trackbar and HD bracket, and clearance is minimal, with some very slight rubbing.

 

[VAhasnoWAVES]

I replaced broken studs with bolts. Pinion angle is more important than caster angle, find a happy midpoint. I have no idea what either one measures on my 2000, but it works. I used an IRO trackbar and HD bracket, and clearance is minimal, with some very slight rubbing.

considering a large number of people drive their jeep on the road more than the trail, id argue that castor is more important for streetability... but given the cost of a hub conversion or rotating the Cs to correct the pinion angle, most people find a median they can live with.

regardless... at 4-5" of lift, one should be able to find a balance that gives them good street manners without vibration at higher speeds.

 

[Euology101]

I'm fine with finding a happy medium. I'm pretty sure my Caster angle is way off, and driving wise, it doesn't seem to be that bad, so all I really want to do is get a little more positive so that my springs sit straight, and don't rub.

If I didn't just pick up with the JKS Trackbar, I would probably get the IRO trackbar and new bracket, because that clears up the clearance issue with the bowing springs, as it does not have the "Hump" the OEM bracket has.

 

[Tim_MN]

considering a large number of people drive their jeep on the road more than the trail, id argue that castor is more important for streetability... but given the cost of a hub conversion or rotating the Cs to correct the pinion angle, most people find a median they can live with.

regardless... at 4-5" of lift, one should be able to find a balance that gives them good street manners without vibration at higher speeds.

It is 1,267 miles from home to Moab, and 1,267 miles back home. I have driven that several times, had a week of red rock fun, and had no problems getting home.

Some people do use more caster, and remove/install the front drive shaft for 4x4 events.

 

[Euology101]

It is 1,267 miles from home to Moab, and 1,267 miles back home. I have driven that several times, had a week of red rock fun, and had no problems getting home.

Some people do use more caster, and remove/install the front drive shaft for 4x4 events.

Honestly, I think i'm running negative caster, or 0, at the very least, and it drives fine, tracks straight, no wandering. If my springs were curved like a banana, I probably wouldn't even think to correct it. I'm going to dial it back a little, enough to stop my spring from rubbing on the OE trackbar mount, and see what happens, hopefully it doesn't screw my pinion.

 

[Euology101]

So I pulled out the Adjuster shoes, drilled out the studs, and then tapped them out. Installed new #8 bolts, with washers as spacers. Pushed the control arm to the front of the bracket. This straightened (although not completely, but close) the coils. Reinstalled, checked everything, driveshaft is out about 3-4 degrees, but not bad vibs, just a light vib in the 60mph range.

Overall I'd say it was successful, in that I no longer hear my coils, but I do wonder, if there is a way to get a better pinion angle, and good caster without having to cut and weld.


Anyway, thanks for everyones help!

 

[VAhasnoWAVES]

So I pulled out the Adjuster shoes, drilled out the studs, and then tapped them out. Installed new #8 bolts, with washers as spacers. Pushed the control arm to the front of the bracket. This straightened (although not completely, but close) the coils. Reinstalled, checked everything, driveshaft is out about 3-4 degrees, but not bad vibs, just a light vib in the 60mph range.

Overall I'd say it was successful, in that I no longer hear my coils, but I do wonder, if there is a way to get a better pinion angle, and good caster without having to cut and weld.


Anyway, thanks for everyones help!

if you were happy with the handling before, i would try to remove a couple washers (or how ever you shimmed it) and dial it back to remove the vibes.

per your question...
- lower it.
- stretch it.
- install a hub hit.

 

[Euology101]

if you were happy with the handling before, i would try to remove a couple washers (or how ever you shimmed it) and dial it back to remove the vibes.

per your question...
- lower it.
- stretch it.
- install a hub hit.

Assuming you mean hub kit? - Would offset lower ball joints do this?

Stretch it: Could this be done "enough" with just adjustable arms? - But wouldn't this also throw off the spring perch issue again?

 

[VAhasnoWAVES]

Assuming you mean hub kit? - Would offset lower ball joints do this?

Stretch it: Could this be done "enough" with just adjustable arms? - But wouldn't this also throw off the spring perch issue again?

yes hub kit.. by hub kit i mean a locking hub conversion that free spins.

and yes, stretching brings about its own set of issues.

 

[Johnnie Walker]

Adjustable arms will help you stretch your axle forward, and adjust caster/pinion angle.

 

[Euology101]

Adjustable arms will help you stretch your axle forward, and adjust caster/pinion angle.

I know the adj arms will help, but the issue that I have is to get the pinion better, the caster suffers.

For me, the caster was actually not an issue, it was nearly 0 when I started out, and the jeep tracked straight and true. The issue with the caster was actually that the coil perches made my coils banana forward, rubbing up against OEM TB mount, "hump".

To fix the coil "banana" I have to get the caster set correctly, in order to align the coil perches. When I get the caster correct, the Pinion is out by about 3-4*.

Right now, i went ahead and pushed the lower arm all the way forward. The spring rubs on larger bumps, but 97% of the time its quiet, so I'm going to take a shim out at a time, and drive it, until my DS is nearly Vib free, and my Coils are not rubbing. Need to find that happy medium.

This sounds odd, but I would probably be better off, if I could go Shorter with both upper and lower control arms, because then the coil would be farther away from the "hump.

Anyone know an aftermarket single sheer TB mount bracket, without the "hump"? (JKS trackbar is a single sheer with a JJ on the frame side, using OEM TB Mount)

 

[paddlernate]

You might be making something out of nothing here. So your coil kisses your TB bracket, is this the end of the world? Is it even worth spending money and time to fix? Mine hit occasionally, and I think nothing of it. If all it's doing is rubbing some paint off, ....

 

[Euology101]

You might be making something out of nothing here. So your coil kisses your TB bracket, is this the end of the world? Is it even worth spending money and time to fix? Mine hit occasionally, and I think nothing of it. If all it's doing is rubbing some paint off, ....

Normally i'd totally agree.

Originally, the rubbing was constant, like literally, sounded like a a metal on metal rubbing pretty much constantly (roads here suck), and to add to that, the sound/feeling of the spring vibrating off of the frame. This was anything but "occasionally". In fact this was more like it was quiet, occasionally.

But also, I'm a "why" guy. I like to know why something is happening, because chances are, it's something I screwed up, haha. In this case, it was something that I overlooked, (caster angle) and now i'm trying to figure out the logistics of that.

 

[Johnnie Walker]

Does your track bar use an adjustable TRE on the frame side? If so, pick up an aftermarket TB bracket, and replace the TRE with a double shear joint. And Voila! NO more "hump" in your bracket.

I only ever had occasional rubbing when I had fixed short arms with lift.

 

[Euology101]

Does your track bar use an adjustable TRE on the frame side? If so, pick up an aftermarket TB bracket, and replace the TRE with a double shear joint. And Voila! NO more "hump" in your bracket.

I only ever had occasional rubbing when I had fixed short arms with lift.

The JKS TB has a FIXED (welded on) JJ with a 9/16" bolt that goes up through the OEM hole, similar to a TRE.

Unfortunately, I think I'll probably upgrade to a double sheer set up, and get a new bracket, just to completely eliminate the chance of rubbing. Annoying, but whatever, not the worst thing.