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My Plans, Your Opinions.....

C

Colorado_XJ_99

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Colorado
So I have been lurking for about 6 months now doing a lot of research and am ready to start doing some small mods on a stock 99 XJ classic. At the same time I want to make sure my thoughts are not going to put me further behind. (I am currently saving for an OME 3" lift kit for next summer)

Our goals are not anything extreme, in fact we may not do much more than we have not already done stock on 225/75/15. We just want to make the family camping trips on the forest service roads of Colorado a bit easier and maybe open up some trail options. I definitely want 3" or less to [hopefully] avoid SYE and other major mods.

Budget has to be considered, and this year much of it will go into tires (30 x 9.5 x 15 [maybe 31s someday], cargo rack, trailer hitch, tow hooks, etc.) Therefore I am looking at a combination of these two home brewed lifts.

http://www.rocklizardfabrications.com/home_brew_budget_boost.htm

http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/Suspension_Steering_Axles_and_Brakes/Budget_Lift.htm

I picked up some front coils from a 2004 ZJ, and I was quite pleased as 90% of the work in getting them off was already done. My plan was to use those and either 1.75" or 2" spacers.

However, as I was walking back up the line I saw a '95 ZJ with all four springs just sitting on the ground. I did not know which were front and which were rear, but two were shorter than the '04 fronts and two were 3" longer and had a tighter "hook" on one end. For $10 I grabbed the longer ones. They are pictured below.


Coil_2_2_zpsjlmek5fd.jpg


Coil_1_2_zpsp10ltjr2.jpg


Everything I have read states to use front coils, if the longer ones are rear coils would that be an issue? Any suggestions as to which ones to use? (trying one set, measuring, and re-doing the whole job if needed would not be the end of the world, but if I can hedge my bets the first time....)

For the rear I picked up a set of leafs, but I honestly have no idea of their condition as the XJ I got them from was in the air.

leaf_1_2_zps9sq7x7ln.jpg


[FONT=&quot]What I do know is that my current ones are flat, almost to the point of negative arch. So the one I picked up cannot be any worse than what I currently have. The way I see it I have three options, which would you suggest knowing that I plan to do an actual kit in one year?[/FONT]

  1. [FONT=&quot]Leave my current main spring and second spring, and then add the entire "new" pack to it as a donor. Tempting as it would mean not having to fight with removing the bushing bolts, pressing in new bushings, and so on. I could add leaves from my current pack as well if needed.

    [/FONT]
  2. [FONT=&quot]Completely remove my current pack, install the "new one", and add leaves from the current pack as needed.

    [/FONT]
  3. [FONT=&quot](Not my favorite option) There are too many variables. A current worn pack, an unknown donor pack. Time to break out the wallet you cheap b*****d! Buy either

    [/FONT]
    1. [FONT=&quot]New OEM packs ($100 each, free shipping, includes bushings) and longer shackles, then use leaves from the junkyard pack and/or the shackles as needed to match the front[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

      [/FONT]
    2. [FONT=&quot]Buy new 3" packs (The only ones I have found that are not part of an entire kit are from Zone Off Road, and the reviews have not been great. Plus they are $200 each by the time bushings and shipping are added)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Thanks for any thoughts you have and all the other great tips and ideas I have found here.[/FONT]
 
I haven't done any junkyard upgrades, but, as far as your leafs go, maybe look at an add-A-leaf for your current leafs. AAL are cheap and should work for a while I don't see the point of swapping in another "stock" leaf that you don't know the condition of. It's a lot of work for no gain. Do an AAL and an extended shackle
 
I used the Rock Lizard recipe and like the results. When I did my swap, I did not know about the Upcountry option.

However, I did take measurements on the springs I used, and a few junkyard springs:
Stock XJ springs had a .525" wire diameter and nominal 17" free standing height.
XJ Upcountry springs had a .560" wire diameter and nominal 17" free standing height.
Front springs from a V-8 powered ZJ had a .540" wire diameter and a nominal 18" free standing height.

I do not have any measurements for a ZJ Upcountry spring. :(

After doing my leaf springs, and a few others, I have seen a consistent 2" boost over stock. If your spring eye bushings are in good shape, don't touch those bolts!

Overall, the ride firmed up enough that I removed the rear sway bar. After towing a few thousand pounds, I wished I had found a way to keep it and disconnect for the trails. I did install quick-disconnects on the front sway bar. I also added aftermarket lower control arms, an adjustable track bar, longer shocks and bump stops.

If you are up for a drive to Golden, I am willing to share a few more mistakes and observations. If not, there might be someone else near you who can help: http://naxja.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=95
 
I wish I saved up and bought a proper lift kit in hindsight. I kinda did what you are doing, I guess if it's not a DD it might be more fun that way. But I am happy with where it's at. I have the BDS 2" long aal, ZJ progressive coils with 5/8 spacer, adjustable track bar, sway bar end links, and bumpstopped accordingly. 31"s would fit great without rubbing
 
mtbxj87 said:
I guess if it's not a DD it might be more fun that way.
Click to expand...

It is still going to be a DD. Is your comment because of the ride that resulted from the lift, or just due the down time it took to do the lift? I will have from 3/21 - 3/29 off from work and will have access to the better half's car during that time, so losing it for the week is not an issue. I am actually looking forward to the work/project and teaching my 11 year old about car maintenance.

On the other hand if it is a ride issue..... When I started this process my original plan was to go with a RC 3" lift with new springs, but after reading the reviews I decided against it.

If I go the new springs route, then adding shocks, spacers, etc. I will only be about $100 shy of the RC kit. Since it is not going to be a hard core machine maybe the RC kit would serve our purposes better until upgrading next year (or when it wears out if it lasts longer than one year).
 
Front ZJ springs are not all alike. I bought some from 4wd.com when I did my lift which yielded no lift at all. I think whether they translate to a lift in an XJ depends on which engine was in the ZJ...that is IIRC. Perhaps you have a better idea what your ZJ coils are going to do for you, but if not you may end up doing a couple hours work for no gain like I did.

I would not start with worn out rear leaves that I was uncertain of either, but that is just me. The trial and error method of building a spring pack is something I would prefer to avoid to the extent possible.
 
Rod Knee said:
you may end up doing a couple hours work for no gain like I did.

I would not start with worn out rear leaves that I was uncertain of either, but that is just me. The trial and error method of building a spring pack is something I would prefer to avoid to the extent possible.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the thoughts. All I know is that they were both from V8 ZJs, but obviously there can be significant differences between a 1995 and a 2004.

I agree on the leaf springs, why start with worn stuff?

I am thinking more and more that a low end kit may be the way to go for a year or so. Not a lot of price difference than putting one together, a better chance of getting the lift I want, and I do not have to try to roll the dice on old springs and get separate shocks.
 
Time. If you have the time to work on it for a week then no problem. I did a little at time. It wasn't much cheaper then buying a kit, but the cost was strung out while I accumulated parts
 
Colorado_XJ_99 said:
Thanks for the thoughts. All I know is that they were both from V8 ZJs, but obviously there can be significant differences between a 1995 and a 2004.

.
Click to expand...

The last year of the ZJ was 1998. You might take that as a red flag.

Based on my past experiences I have this image of going to the JY and asking for front coils from a V8 ZJ and the guy at the counter fetching me some coils from a 4 liter saying to himself that I'd never know the difference. Or maybe he'd not appreciate the difference between a 2004 WJ and a ZJ, they're all Grand Cherokees after all..
 
Rod Knee said:
The last year of the ZJ was 1998. You might take that as a red flag.

Based on my past experiences I have this image of going to the JY and asking for front coils from a V8 ZJ and the guy at the counter fetching me some coils from a 4 liter saying to himself that I'd never know the difference. Or maybe he'd not appreciate the difference between a 2004 WJ and a ZJ, they're all Grand Cherokees after all..
Click to expand...

Now that I did not know, thanks! I thought all Grand Cherokees were ZJs. (I never knew about the XJ, ZJ, YJ, etc. nomenclature until I started researching all of this).

I will take the 2004 coils back and exchange them for other set from the 1995, then see which ones give me the desired lift.
 
I bought new moog cc782 coils from the local parts place. They where around $70/pair. Or check out PAC springs, Jegs sells them at a good price.
 
I'd say buy a kit if you can. Sure you could piece something together that would eventually work, how much time a worn parts you go through to get there is a huge unknown
 
I just realized I never posted the results. I finished it about a week and a half or so after my original post. I ended up going with the V8 ZJ springs and 2" coil spacers in the front.

In the back I left my main leaf, added the full leaf pack (after cutting off the main eyes) from the other 99, and a 2" long add-a-leaf.

It came out to 3 inches in the front and 3.5 in the back. It now sits level at 20.5" above the center of the hubs front and back. Essentially I got lucky that it came out that way on the first installation. I wish I had gotten some before pictures, but it was bone stock. It is now on 31s along with the other accessories seen below.

It does ride a bit stiffer as would be expected, but not too much stiffer. Break lines were extended in the process. I do have a bit of vibe between 40 and 50 mph, but not much. I am wavering between a TC drop and a SYE.

Thanks for all the comments to my original question!

Jeep_1_zps6ebmtzxw.jpg


Jeep_2_zpsw0ly7zoh.jpg
 
You can't go wrong with green! Beautiful xj man, the height looks just right. I'd do the SYE, I'm in the same boat with that issue right now
 
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