Mid arm setups....

[Gary E]

I have only had mine on for one trip, but I am really digging them!

The improvement in the ride is amazing, it flexes really well, you would only want more if you were a ramp jockey. Actually mine is limited by the shocks, thankfully or my brake lines would be done.

I have rubbed along the bottom arm, better that than my DS thats an inch or two away.

Who cares about small caster changes when you are in 4lo? I had a little wobble before the LAs not anymore.

I rubbed a little on this obstacle, everything slid up fine and it hit the crossmember a little (it hangs no lower than stock)

It also climbs ledges much easier, of course my short arm angles were pretty bad at 6 ins of lift.

Personally I think a longarm setup is better and easier to fab. Its a win win situation.

 

[ChuckD]

I have only had mine on for one trip, but I am really digging them!

The improvement in the ride is amazing, it flexes really well, you would only want more if you were a ramp jockey. Actually mine is limited by the shocks, thankfully or my brake lines would be done.

I have rubbed along the bottom arm, better that than my DS thats an inch or two away.

Who cares about small caster changes when you are in 4lo? I had a little wobble before the LAs not anymore.

I rubbed a little on this obstacle, everything slid up fine and it hit the crossmember a little (it hangs no lower than stock)

It also climbs ledges much easier, of course my short arm angles were pretty bad at 6 ins of lift.

Personally I think a longarm setup is better and easier to fab. Its a win win situation.

Come'on Gary, that obstacle had nothing to do with your Longarms, frt locker, or 4to1 TC, it was obviously your cool hood vents,

 

[CRASH]

Vintage,

You're really not hung up on caster change, are you? It's a non-factor, even when I'm blasting across Johnson Valley at 60 miles per hour, I never notice it.

To each his own, they all work about the same, and are miles ahead of the stock setup.

CRASH

 

[vintagespeed]

Vintage,

You're really not hung up on caster change, are you? It's a non-factor, even when I'm blasting across Johnson Valley at 60 miles per hour, I never notice it.

To each his own, they all work about the same, and are miles ahead of the stock setup.

CRASH

Hung Up? Na not me, I never get hung up. I just TRY to build things correctly, as in "correct geometry", as in "as close to stock as possible", as in "not pushing the top of my axle into obstacles".

And yes, with the small amount of travel that we're talking about the changes are minimal. Burn me if you must. :flame:

 

[RCP Phx]

Thats an interesting thought since the factory set-up is flawed with its un-equal length/non-parallel arms!

 

[MrShoeBoy]

Has anybody with the long arms had a problem with blowing out upper control arm bushings on the axle end of the arm?

On my last trip to Tellico, my passenger side no longer had any rubber in the bushing and the driver side only had about half the rubber in the bushing. My arms are as follows: Long lower is 31.25" eye to eye with a JJ on the frame end and poly at the axle end. The "upper arm" is Rubicon Express adjustable upper control arms with a JJ on the "frame" end. Shocks are 17" compressed and 29.5 extended eye to eye. I have limiting straps in the front that limit the front shock travel to 29".

Does anybody have ideas on how I can get my bushings on the axle to life longer than one trail ride.

Thanks,

AARON

 

[REDXJ4FUN]

I have heard of this problem and am trying to prvent this on my long arm set up. Currie sells jonny joints that are supsed to replace the uper bushing and that should also help any bind but as it was said above a little bind is good. Mine has way tomuch damn flex up front and i'm trying to tightn it up so i can balance the front and rear.

 

[vintagespeed]

I'm really trying to understand the 'other side' of the coin with this "bind is good" theory. I think you guys are confusing BIND with COMPRESSION? Yes, when you run out of upward travel the rear will start to unload, but that shouldn't be caused by your suspension binding on itself and trying to break/bend itself apart it should be caused by the suspension not being able to move upward anymore, by hitting the bumpstops or sacking the coil. Or am I just out of my mind?

 

[JJ13]

I had a little too much "fun" tonight and may be way off, but I believe they are talking about bind at the bottom of their travel.

 

[RCP Phx]

Actually the only time you would have any type of binding is at full articulation(one wheel at full droop,one fully compressed)!This will happen with almost all suspensions using a "live" axle.

 

[vintagespeed]

Actually the only time you would have any type of binding is at full articulation(one wheel at full droop,one fully compressed)!This will happen with almost all suspensions using a "live" axle.

Yes. Of course any solid axle suspension will eventually bind during articulation. (ugh, semantics) So which will bind first? Being that a radius arm can only flex at the frame ends, I'd say that it would bind before a 4 link and a 4 link would bind before a 3 link. And why do all the radius arm guys say "bind is good" ? Is there a reason that the Bronco guys (the original radius arms) have now gone from wristed radius arms to a wristed axle housing to alleviate the bind? :angel:

http://www.bcbroncos.com (under front suspension)

 

[RCP Phx]

"I" certainly dont like the idea of binding on "anything".In this game its all about compromise,you should have seen the bushings that just came off my RE short arms after one year.How much you have will depend on the design.I mounted my lowers very inboard(centered=no bind),so I should see much less than an outboard set-up.Knowing that I needed something to be able to move is exactly why I chose rubber for all the forward mounts and JJ for the crossmember.

 

[FarmerMatt]

Bind is good... well maybe not bind, but balance. Why do you think a lot of these guys are now adding currie antirock swaybars to their high dollar engineered low bind suspensions? They feel the need to balance out their suspensions & control the flex that they have. There is no other way to describe what a swaybar does, but bind the suspension. I read in a recent thread that C-Rok put his rear swaybar back on his custom rear suspension for the same reason. XJ's are known for their flexy front ends & stiff rear ends. The rear spring setup has more control over the body than the front. This is especially true with the newer flexier lifts on the market today. If you stiffen up the front (bind) to let it have more body cotrol you'll get the rear to work more for you & the rig will feel more stable because of it. I originally kept the stock rubber "C" bushing in my radius arms because they would distort & flex more than poly would, but the front end felt like it had no control over the body positioning. I talked about adding a swaybar, but than figured out that adding stiffer poly "C" bushing does the same thing. The rig feels a ton more stable on the rough stuff & I still max out 14" travel shocks in the front. My rear tires don't come off the ground nearly as much either. In short it's not about flex or bind really. It's all about the balance.

Sorry about this thread going the wrong way. This is supposed to be about those little dinky arms so we should all back off & let Mr. Goat & Vintage (web wheeler that hasn't even had his dinky arms out to wheel yet ) go back to their brain washing.

Matt

 

[RCP Phx]

Isnt that the truth,I had my RE4.5" kit last year complaining about the rear flex.I added some extended shackles,wow what a difference,it really added "balance" to the vehicle.

 

[Goatman]

I think Matt sumed it up nicely. I would add that the term "resistance" may be more accurate than "bind". The beneficial effect created by some binding, that is being discussed, is actually the resistance that is working on the suspension. That is also what the sway bar will do, add some resistance to balance things out and increase the stability.

I like Matt's idea of the stiffer C bushings on his radius arms, since it won't hurt anything and the life of the bushings should be very long. Unfortunately, the stock rubber bushings in the axle end of the upper control arms in most setups are not very durable, and can wear out quickly in a flexy rig or one with the typical long arm setup. They just need to be inspected regularly and replaced as needed......a simple process with the right tool. I got tired of replacing them, and didn't like the front axle wrap up that they allowed (especially when worn), so I went with JJ's when the D44 went in. Because the JJ's don't allow much bushing deflection, I only used one upper arm, which allows for very little, if any, bushing deflection (binding). I can get away with little or no resistance in the front suspension becuase my rear suspension is very soft, so things are still pretty well balanced. Those with a stiffer rear suspension, like BOR springs, need more resistance in the front to balance things out. They will also have more overall stability than I will, but I can stay a little more level through certain obstacles because of less resistance to any one wheel compressing fully. My point is that each suspension needs to be tuned based on it's own components and handling, what's right for one setup won't be right for another.

Another issue is that components need to be strong enough to handle the forces that are working on them. Long arms without rubber UCA bushings can/will rip off the mounts. Stock LCA axle mounts need to be reinforced or they can/will rip off. This is the down side of binding, but if the components are strong enough, some resistance can be a good thing. A soft durometer poly replacement bushing for the axle end UCA would be a very good thing for many people, but I don't think anyone makes one yet.

BTW, I'm glad to see an actual thread about mid-arms........maybe the mindless long arm craze is finally over.

 

[XJEEPER]

Gman, not sure of the durometer but RE now makes a poly bushing kit to replace the stock rubber UCA/LCA bushings they use in some of their arms. FWIW

 

[vintagespeed]

.......we should all back off & let Mr. Goat & Vintage (web wheeler that hasn't even had his dinky arms out to wheel yet ) go back to their brain washing.........

Matt

That's MR. VINTAGE to you.

 

[FarmerMatt]

Vintage means old right?

Matt

 

[FarmerMatt]

Sorry... My wife corrected me. Vintage equals classic, outdated, & old.

Matt

 

[vintagespeed]

Yes, you're right. Vintage + Speed = Old air-cooled fast ass VWs that you're V8 would run & hide from. Old is good, bind is bad.