Manual Transmission oils

[Kejtar]

IIRC throughout the time I have been here on I have heard of at least 5 different AX15's that had to be rebuilt due to eaten synchros..... 2 of them were on the same XJ under warranty at the dealers and the last one came in from the rebuilt with a note that said something to the extent: "read the manual and use GL3"

Kejtar

 

[Wayne Sihler]

Here is more info-----
GL-3 Meeting MS-9684 Part # 04897622AA
GL-5 Meeting MS-9763 #05010320AA 75w90
Gl-5 Meeting MS-8985 #04874469 75w140
These are Daimler/Chryco spec #,s
NO GL-4 is reccomended for any Chryco product
HTH
Wayne

 

[Anthropy]

My manual says 75w-90 GL-5 for my '96.

Does anyone have any word on the Valvoline 75w-90 synthetic that is rated GL-5? I went to their website and it really does not say much of anything about it. ;(

Tom

 

[Mike in NJ]

Anthropy wrote:

Does anyone have any word on the Valvoline 75w-90 synthetic that is rated GL-5

- Gee, that's the stuff I put in to treat my 200K mile '92 AX-15, 2000 miles ago - and everything's just fine.

Of course, right after I did that a couple of months ago - the whole GL-3, GL-5 thing started up again. And I started to waver. Rev's right though, ashamed to say I haven't been paying much attention the past 10 years and everything's just whoopy-keen.

BUT, so is Ketjar and I'm supposed to use GL-3. Well, I figure now it's probably jinxed, which is why I'm going to drain the practically new, pricey, Valvoline stuff with the even more pricey dealer stuff before I head out to Moab!

Yeah, I'm wussin' out, but, have to keep the gear gods happy before a 2300 mile trip!!!

Mike in NJ atriot:

 

[Anthropy]

Well, that is just it. Safe or not safe. Mine being a '96, did they make a mistake or not. It seems a major transition took place in the '97 and that is where the 'offical' numbering changes between the GL-5 to the GL-3.

So the question remains, is the GL-3 safe enough for all the AX15 trannies.

As far as 'wussin' out, the oil is far cheaper than getting the trannie rebuilt. Speaking of which, does anyone know what the cost should be to have new syncros installed. I know, I know - not cheap. ;(

I was testing out my clutch this morning and tried pumping my clutch pedel about 10 times and then noticed that my shifting was easier. So it appears that the master/slave cylinder is at least contributing to my woes.

Tom R. Dennis - still confused, but not alone in my confusion.

 

[RichP]

The ONLY manufacturer I could find is Redline and they say that MT-90 is specifically safe for sintered metals [bronze ]. Tomorrow I might actually make it out of the house and will try to get over to OK4Wheel drive in NJ and pick some up. I just hope I'm not jumping from the Mobil-1 frying pan into the MT-90 fire

 

[Runnin'OnEmpty]

OK guys, I don't have a dog in this fight, since my XJ is auto, but I'll jump in anyway. The GL4 and GL5 both have EP additives (usually sulphur and phosphorus, sometimes boron). The GL5 has about double the amount of the GL4. The sulphur/phosporus will harm yellow metals, but only if heated to an extreme temperature. GL5's are used in diffs because of the 90* power transfer, which requires more EP additives. Transmissions' power is transferred straight through, so a GL4 is adequate for them. (I would not use any oil, rating under a GL4.)

I went through this dilemma a couple years ago when I changed trans oil in my Bronco. I contacted a Coastal rep and he told me that Coastal uses a "buffering" additive that makes their GL5 safe for yellow metals. I understand that all the major suppliers also do this, so any of today's oils are safe to use. That's why a single oil can be specified GL3, 4, and 5, and be backward compatible to meet all of the requirements of each spec.

I wound up using Coastal 75W-90 (GL3,4,and 5) in the Bronco transmission. I like having to only stock one gear oil for all the diffs and the transmission.....

 

[Kejtar]

well.... there is on big problem with what you said.... you're basing your theory on what was said by a rep of a company who most likely was only exposed to a chem class in high school and doesn't know what he's repeating...

I have a buddy who's working on his PHD in chemistry and his dad is (was... as he is now retired) a chem engineer for the oil industry.... The line about GL3 GL4 GL5 oil is bordering with BS.... there is no way that an oil can satisfy all the requirements at once. The most common reason that sales people/companies use that line is because based on average usage one can expect a certain lifetime out of other components in the tranny.... on the other hand, I drive 60+ miles twice a day, half of it in sweltering heat in stop and go traffic..... I am on the extreme end of the spectrum so even if John Doe was happily moving along on Mobil 1 for X amount of miles with a slight hint of some trouble brewing, I'd by now would be picking up pieces that would be left over from my tranny taking a dump. The bottom line that we gotta face is that we got a tranny that uses/requires expensive oil (GL3, available only at the dealers). We push our XJ's further then most people push any of their vehicles. We heat them up, beat them up, drop them off rocks, ride quite a bit more in 1st and 2nd then others so we can't go by a generic company line....

Also from what I remember from my AX15 research it was that from the getgo the GL3 was the required lube.... then for about 2 years or so GL5 was printed in the manual and then they went back to GL3 when they realized the issues at hand (the second year has the manuals saying GL5 while the FSM is already going back to GL3)......

So my word of advice to all those who are reading this and are stuck in the same hard spot as me.... spend the extra $$ and buy the GL3 from the dealer....

Kejtar

 

[Runnin'OnEmpty]

Kejtar, the Coastal rep was a Chemist. I can't remember his company title now, but he seemed to know what he was talking about. I have heard/read the same thing from other sources since then. Potassium Borate is the buffering agent used, and under extreme heat it coats the metal and prevents the chemical reaction of the sulphur/phosphorus with the yellow metals.

Adding the buffer to gear oil is a fairly recent development, so that may explain the differences in the Jeep specs. Older gear lubes were not buffered, and indeed would destroy the syncros if they contained too much sulphur.

 

[Eagle]

Here is more info-----
GL-3 Meeting MS-9684 Part # 04897622AA
GL-5 Meeting MS-9763 #05010320AA 75w90
Gl-5 Meeting MS-8985 #04874469 75w140
These are Daimler/Chryco spec #,s
NO GL-4 is reccomended for any Chryco product
HTH
Wayne

just to get the info all in one place, I'll add the data for the Pennzoil "Synchromesh Manual Transmission Fluid"


Unrated Meeting MS9224 Part # 4874464 Viscosity not specified


In the fine print on the back of the pretty yellow bottle, it says "*Pennzoil(R) Synchromesh Fluid is not intended for all manual transaxles or transmissions. Always check owner's manual for exact applications."

The Pennzoil engineer told me the same thing the dealer told me -- this lube is for use in the NVG 3500 and 4500 series transmissions, not the AX- series or the Peugeot.

 

[Kejtar]

Adding the buffer to gear oil is a fairly recent development, so that may explain the differences in the Jeep specs. Older gear lubes were not buffered, and indeed would destroy the syncros if they contained too much sulphur.

Hmmm maybe you're right, but then again I thknk that I remember the same version of GL5 lubes going back a while back (I used to own an 86 XJ from 95 on) and I'll have to say that the damge to the tranny's has occured to more recent (then 95) models using said gear oils.....

Also buffers do not guarantee a 100% clean reaction. They are there to aid but do not expect for things to be perfectly clean as even in a controlled laboratory environmnet there is always loss as buffering is not perfect

In any case..... I have a small stock of the AX15 fluid on hand

Kejtar

 

[Matthew Currie]

My manual says 75w-90 GL-5 for my '96.

Does anyone have any word on the Valvoline 75w-90 synthetic that is rated GL-5? I went to their website and it really does not say much of anything about it. ;(

Tom

When I bought my 95, with 110K on it, the tranny was very noisy and shifted poorly. I put the FSM-recommended GL-5 in, and it didn't help, so, Like Mike in NJ, I went out and got some of that Valvoline synthetic, under the impression that, GL rating notwithstanding, it is sulfur-free, and it was the cheapest synthetic around. I had had the new dino oil in for about 5 thousand miles. When I dumped out the old dino oil, it looked like liquid gold , there was so much brass in it. As soon as the synthetic went in, the transmission quieted down a lot, shifts better, and, oddly enough, as it ages, it seems to get quieter, and at 183K, premature failure is not an option, so I'm leaving it in.