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anyone ever made a bracket to lower the shacle down?i thinking to gain a bit more lift i would make a bracket to lower the upper shacle mount. any ideas, thoughts or even better, pics?
"It can still weave at highway speeds sharply and it is still stable. "
The rear spring mounts were designed to give a specific anti-squat from the factory. Adding a longer shackle lowers this by a little bit; completely lowering the mounts increases it a LOT more. This is a ghetto and cheap-ass way to lift your junk. Might as well just put a whole bunch of coil spacers up front too.
IMO you're better off using lift blocks. I'd hate to have that kind of crap hanging down from my frame rails...I'm reducing that kind of clutter every chance I get.
"It can still weave at highway speeds sharply and it is still stable. "
The rear spring mounts were designed to give a specific anti-squat from the factory. Adding a longer shackle lowers this by a little bit; completely lowering the mounts increases it a LOT more. This is a ghetto and cheap-ass way to lift your junk. Might as well just put a whole bunch of coil spacers up front too.
IMO you're better off using lift blocks. I'd hate to have that kind of crap hanging down from my frame rails...I'm reducing that kind of clutter every chance I get.
in reality, the blocks would be worse. they would cause premature sag due to axle wrap. the drop does nothing to really change the ride other than the CG issues witch are really nothing compared to say a 7 inch lift. there, you have my humble opinion. if you disagree then live with it, I DO!!:laugh3:
"It can still weave at highway speeds sharply and it is still stable. "
The rear spring mounts were designed to give a specific anti-squat from the factory. Adding a longer shackle lowers this by a little bit; completely lowering the mounts increases it a LOT more. This is a ghetto and cheap-ass way to lift your junk. Might as well just put a whole bunch of coil spacers up front too.
IMO you're better off using lift blocks. I'd hate to have that kind of crap hanging down from my frame rails...I'm reducing that kind of clutter every chance I get.
Here is what I did on mine bad pic though there is a piece of square tubing that slides into the old shackle mount and uses the stock bolt so I can remove it if needed
"It can still weave at highway speeds sharply and it is still stable. "
The rear spring mounts were designed to give a specific anti-squat from the factory. Adding a longer shackle lowers this by a little bit; completely lowering the mounts increases it a LOT more. This is a ghetto and cheap-ass way to lift your junk. Might as well just put a whole bunch of coil spacers up front too.
IMO you're better off using lift blocks. I'd hate to have that kind of crap hanging down from my frame rails...I'm reducing that kind of clutter every chance I get.
Here is what I did on mine bad pic though there is a piece of square tubing that slides into the old shackle mount and uses the stock bolt so I can remove it if needed
It has to do with how the weight is transferred to the rear when accelerating. The same 'anti-squat' characteristics you have in a link suspension also appear in a leaf suspension, with the overall angle of the spring being the variable. The relation between the top of the shackle and the front spring eye is what sets this. If you lower only the rear of the spring (this isn't the same as a longer shackle, which retains the same mount, or a block), you change the angle and thus the squat, and also the tendency for the rear to load/unload when climbing or descending.
Is it gonna be a noticeable difference? I don't know. I've never tried it. I'm just giving reasons why I don't think it's the best solution. Furthermore, with the number of times I've hit my gas tank and trailer hitch dropping off things, I'd like to minimize stuff hanging down in the rear.
Another thing to consider is the effect that moving that mount will have on the unibody area there. Lowering that mount increases the moment arm on that point; it's reinforced from the factory, but we all know that unibodies tend to fatigue at stressed points. In addition to suspending the vehicle, a leaf spring setup (a true Hotchkiss drive) also locates the axle laterally under the vehicle. Meaning when you go around a corner or end up in an off-camber position, the leafs are not only holding the vehicle up, they're also keeping the axle from pushing sideways out from under the vehicle. That same force applied to a taller spring mount results in more force being applied to the unibody. Multiply this by the number of times you take a turn, which is a dynamic force to begin with, and I can see those little spot welds that hold it all together starting to crack.
Again, not saying that you'll die, just saying why I wouldn't do it.
Every thing you do will have an adverse affect. Be it positive or negative some times you need to sit back and not over engineer things. Take a shackle in relation to the spring eye the closer they are to parallel the stiffer it will be off set them the softer they will be this is not rocket science.
By the way you drive a Cherokee it will crack and fall apart if you wheel it!
Every thing you do will have an adverse affect. Be it positive or negative some times you need to sit back and not over engineer things. Take a shackle in relation to the spring eye the closer they are to parallel the stiffer it will be off set them the softer they will be this is not rocket science.
By the way you drive a Cherokee it will crack and fall apart if you wheel it!
I enjoy overthinking things sometimes. My problem is I'll have an instinctual "that ain't right" impulse, and then I'll have to sit around and figure out why I thought it.
Dropping the rear mount point isn't quite the same as a longer shackle. Although like I said, I doubt it makes a shithill of difference in the long run.
Fawk, do it, break it, crash it, wheel it, own the hell out of my junk with it, I don't care. Honestly I'd like to see how it works out for ya. I just don't want to see it fail on the road somewhere...that's my biggest concern. Extending the rear shackle mount...that's not the right way to do it, and there's a reason for that. But, sometimes y'all get lucky, and it'll work out anyway.
That being said: gusset the hell out of it, weld it in multiple planes of stress, add some grade-8 bolts wherever possible, and wheel the living piss out of it. :lecture:
.... If you lower only the rear of the spring (this isn't the same as a longer shackle, which retains the same mount, or a block), you change the angle and thus the squat, and also the tendency for the rear to load/unload when climbing or descending..
if you think AMC engineers in 1983 were calculating Anti-squat for lifted xjs with 33", 35" and even bigger tires to go rock crawlin then you are smokin sumthin good, pass that bowl...
i'm for the institution of get your hands dirty trying to make somethin work not the one that regurgatates inter-web jargon about why something doesn't look like it'll work on paper
If you lower only the rear of the spring (this isn't the same as a longer shackle, which retains the same mount, or a block), you change the angle and thus the squat, and also the tendency for the rear to load/unload when climbing or descending.
Wrong.
It is exactly the same as using a longer shackle.
What matters (using your line of thinking, which I disagree with, anyway) is the angle of the leaf spring. Whether that is done by lowering the mount or by exending the shackle the results are the same.
Now, as to why I disagree with your line of thinking, the anti-dive/squat characteristics of a link suspension and a leaf spring are completely different.
In a link system the suspension rotates around fixed points in the front. That's what causes the anti-dive/squat to be what it is.
In a leaf spring system, the axle, for the most part, moves in a straight verticle motion.
As apple and orange as you can get.
As for it being ghetto fab, yea, CRASH and Jes are so known for their booty fab junk, aren't they. :huh:
the anti-dive/squat characteristics of a link suspension and a leaf spring are completely different.
In a link system the suspension rotates around fixed points in the front. That's what causes the anti-dive/squat to be what it is.
In a leaf spring system, the axle, for the most part, moves in a straight verticle motion.
As apple and orange as you can get.
I didn't say anything about the motion of the axle. I know how instant center works and all that. I meant how the suspension travel itself reacts to weight transfer...and how it was the leaf spring equivalent of anti-dive/squat. The leaf spring will be a lot more forgiving though - like, it can be further 'off', and not have the same violent tendencies of a poorly built link setup. Spring angle, I think, is more noticeable in the front, especially with a shackle reversal (brake dive like a mofo)...but if the rear leaf has that same kind of pitch to it, it'll behave weird.
Like anything else, there's "factory spec", and there's "beyond factory spec but still works fine", and there's "doesn't work worth crap". I think most of our rigs probably fall in that second category, which is really pretty forgiving. Just goes to show how 'off' things can be and have them still work.
