Lockers Vs. Hub Conversion ?

[Silverstreak01]

Im new to the whole locker scene. After this last snow storm up here (3feet + drifts) i know i want some. ( lift tires armor is done so i think this is the next step..) few questions.. 1. whats better on a dd hub conversion or locker (for front) 2. what axle to do first ? i have heard of a BUNCH of diffrent kinds. ARb air locker, detroit locking, powertrax no-slip, lock right, and "lunchbox lockers". i would like a newbie breakdown on the diffrences and prefrences.. o yea i searched and im still a little lost.

thanks again'

keith h..

 

[Pietro]

do not put in a non selectable locker if you like driving in the snow, ever turn the wheel one way and the truck goes straight still, get the drift...

i wouldn't waste the money on a hub conversion, that is 800 bucks invested in a dana 30!!!

 

[ECKSJAY]

i wouldn't waste the money on a hub conversion, that is 800 bucks invested in a dana 30!!!

So is a selectable locker, goofball.

 

[Pietro]

true, it is a tough call for a dd truck that needs to be locked

i would rather spend the 800 bucks for a nice arb or ox (if you can still get em') than on a lockrite and hub conversion

i chose the compromise and got the true trac for 300 bucks.
very good diff for snow driving

 

[Boatwrench]

Remember you asked for opinions, and everyone will have a different opinion.

I would purchase the hub conversion first, selectable (arb) locker second.

Here's why...The conversion will benefit you every rotation of the tire. There will be less drag so theoretically better mileage. There will also be less vibrations caused by the front driveshaft not spinning.

The selectable locker is a specialized tool, it sits there doing nothing but adding weight until you employ it. You won't have it engaged all the time so 95% of the time (in a DD) you won't need it.

Now I have neither (locker/hubs) in my XJ, so you maybe thinking saying how about a nice cup of STFU, but in my old CJ I had a Detroit in the rear and the milemarker hubs in the front. After I installed the Detroit would not let the wife or kids drive the CJ, should have gone with a selectable.

Good Luck,
Tom

 

[RKBA]

What about running a TrueTrac in the front? That might be a good compromise of cost/traction/driveability for you.

 

[Pietro]

i like my front true trac, sure it doesn't act like a locker, but thats the purpose, and they are cheap, 300 bucks

i am sure mine would be better with an automatic, but i have a stick and dont have three feet to work the brake pedal too

 

[Pietro]

also, boatwrench has a good word of advice

once you put a fulltime locker in, dont let anyone else drive the vehicle unless they can get used to it

my samurai would dart back and forth with a rear lockrite when it would skip a tooth, wouldn't let anyone drive mine

 

[Big Red]

I wouldn't waste the $800 or so putting in manual hubs on the dana 30, I rather put that into an arb locker or OX locker for the front. It that still seems to much, then get a true trac up front. In the back don't waste gearing and locking the dana 35. If U have a 8.25 then U can gear it and lock it and at that time go from 27 to 29 spline shafts. If U have the dana 35 get a 29 spline 8.25 from 96'+ or better yet a XJ dana 44 rear axle, or if U don't mind a little work and getting things welded a 95'+ 8.8 from a ford explorer.

I know your question was on the front axle, but the rear axle will influence your financial decision as well so you kind of have to think what U want to do and hopefully do it once. The front 30 isn't a bad axle and can hold up well to 33's and even 35's if U are easy on it. I don't know how you drive your XJ a day or week etc, so that really influences what locker, gear, etc U want to put in it. If U want the best of both worlds for wheeling your jeep and driving it an arb or ox locker gives U that completely open to completely locked with the push of a button or tug of a lever. But they are not cheap to buy or cheap to have installed.
Please advise what tire and size U plan to run, how much U plan to wheel vs how much U drive your jeep, etc. This will help answer your questions better.
Troy

 

[EricsXJ]

First of all, this is kind of crazy because aren't we comparing apples to oranges here? A hub kit and locker do completely opposite things. So I'm not sure the original poster truly needs either but would LIKE to do something to his front axle.

1. whats better on a dd hub conversion or locker (for front)

Hub conversion. A locker will add stress and wear to the axle by varying degrees depending on what type you get and how much you use it. Manual hubs disconnect the shafts, gears, and driveshaft from spinning when the hubs are not locked so this eliminates a lot of wear on those parts.

2. what axle to do first ?

Well a hub conversion is only for the front so this goes back to what you really want, hubs or a locker.

 

[LouisianaZJ]

or hubs and a spool or welded is another option

First of all, this is kind of crazy because aren't we comparing apples to oranges here? A hub kit and locker do completely opposite things. So I'm not sure the original poster truly needs either but would LIKE to do something to his front axle.


Hub conversion. A locker will add stress and wear to the axle by varying degrees depending on what type you get and how much you use it. Manual hubs disconnect the shafts, gears, and driveshaft from spinning when the hubs are not locked so this eliminates a lot of wear on those parts.


Well a hub conversion is only for the front so this goes back to what you really want, hubs or a locker.

 

[Goatman]

do not put in a non selectable locker if you like driving in the snow, ever turn the wheel one way and the truck goes straight still, get the drift...

i wouldn't waste the money on a hub conversion, that is 800 bucks invested in a dana 30!!!

i would rather spend the 800 bucks for a nice arb or ox (if you can still get em') than on a lockrite and hub conversion

The first comment just isn't true....I doubt Pietro has had a front locker. I've had an EZ locker and a Detroit in the front and experienced no handling problems in the snow, and many others have said the same thing. As far as wasting money on a front hub conversion, that's all up to the goals of the builder. I put a front hub conversion on my D30 and it was well worth the money. I would much rather have a hub conversion and lunchbox locker than an ARB in the front......and I did.

also, boatwrench has a good word of advice

once you put a fulltime locker in, dont let anyone else drive the vehicle unless they can get used to it

my samurai would dart back and forth with a rear lockrite when it would skip a tooth, wouldn't let anyone drive mine

This is greatly effected by wheelbase. An XJ with an automatic locker is much different than a CJ5 or a Samarai. I've only had automatic lockers in my XJ, and my daughters have driven it as a spare vehicle, and so has my wife, and they never even commented about any handling quirks. Plus, a little push to one side or the other is not "darting back and forth". I think your comments are seriously overstating the issues.

 

[LouisianaZJ]

i agree. full detroit rear/ lockright front here. other than some understeer, and some feel of backlash it is fine. unless you floor it around a corner or something, it is fine to drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pietro
also, boatwrench has a good word of advice

once you put a fulltime locker in, dont let anyone else drive the vehicle unless they can get used to it

my samurai would dart back and forth with a rear lockrite when it would skip a tooth, wouldn't let anyone drive mine



This is greatly effected by wheelbase. An XJ with an automatic locker is much different than a CJ5 or a Samarai. I've only had automatic lockers in my XJ, and my daughters have driven it as a spare vehicle, and so has my wife, and they never even commented about any handling quirks. Plus, a little push to one side or the other is not "darting back and forth". I think your comments are seriously overstating the issues.

 

[98XJ]

I installed HubLocks not because I wanted to run frnt locker. I have done it because I wanted to get rid off frnt vibrations, was getting them at speeds over 50-55Mph. Also, I got slightly less drag on drivetrain, thus reducing fuel consumption.
Also, my Jeep has less drivetrain noise now.
So, hubs are good even thoug they are pricey!
Listen to experienced peeps regarding lockers. They are great, but show traction is terrible. you'll get in trouble with frnt locker oon ice or snow!

LET THE FORCE BE WITH YOU :worship:

 

[island86xj]

I put an aussie (lunchbox) locker in mine. It is my DD. Little bit different feel on the road but nothing severe, hardly noticeable. The difference off road was incredible. It is like I have a new jeep. I have nothing in the rear right now because I am not going to waste my money on a D35. D44 or 8.8 swap coming up.

 

[wescam]

Not hijacking this thread -- but asking a similar question related to the original post.

Say I want a compromise here and only want to lock up one diff (non-selectable).

If I lock up the front diff with a detroit locker, will the "adverse" effects on daily driving in 2H even be there? Remember I'm a newbie here. I thought about it, and yes, those wheels are rotating and I think, yeah, they are locked. Then I thought about it again and though, nope, the shaft ins't "driving" them, so they are not locked until I'm in 4WD.

See, it's that balance issue for a capable off roader and a nice street DD/looker that drives me nutso. Also as others pointed out, if you regear (with carrier) and lock a Dana 30 front you're putting lots of money into some thing that could be replaced outright. But it's still a big jump in cost to redo the whole thing.

anyone want to educate a noob?

would you lock just one?

would it be the front?

thanks

 

[XJRubicon]

Lets not forget some people have center disconecting front axles..... a NON-selectable LOCKER in the front of a rig is BAD NEWS with disconect type axles.

I don't think I would want a limited slip there either! Not on a disconnect.

CAD's (center axle disconnect) have a vacume motor mounted to the passengerside axle tube. (older xjs only I believe)

If you want better traction, do the back first!

I would never add a traction device to the front first. do yourself a favor and start in back.... Thats what gets you home anyways right?

 

[wescam]

Just my ignorance showing as I try to figure it all out I suppose.

I think the thing to do is just wait until I can afford a selectable in back, put it in there and enjoy it for what it is.

Stepping ujp to selectable lockers f and r is way more $ than I could spend for a while.

Then years down the road, if I wanted more, or got big tire fever, redo the axels, taller, bigger, lockable, etc.

 

[cj7xjmj]

I have a VD D30. I did the conversion and converted it to the newer axles. I am also running a loc-rite upfront. The conversion cost me less then a posilock unit. Went to a pick a part and bought both front axles for 75 bucks, and I had an old D44 axle seal, and it fit into the vacum housing and was a good fit to the axle. I have noticed no Ill side effects from this mod. The only thing I can say is it was a great mod for me, but this also isnt my DD. As for the rear, I am waiting to swap out my pitiful D35 for a 8.8.



Patrick

 

[basalt51]

I would purchase the hub conversion first, selectable (arb) locker second.

Here's why...The conversion will benefit you every rotation of the tire. There will be less drag so theoretically better mileage. There will also be less vibrations caused by the front driveshaft not spinning.

Installing selectable hubs with a selectable locker is a waste of money unless you have $800 burning a hole in your pocket.

also, boatwrench has a good word of advice

once you put a fulltime locker in, dont let anyone else drive the vehicle unless they can get used to it

my samurai would dart back and forth with a rear lockrite when it would skip a tooth, wouldn't let anyone drive mine

My wife has zero problems driving my XJ. She doesn't even notice the locker unless I make her gun it around a corner.

do not put in a non selectable locker if you like driving in the snow, ever turn the wheel one way and the truck goes straight still, get the drift...

Like Goatman said, not a problem. The only real issue I've had is off-chamber situations in the snow, where being locked front and rear tends to make you slide, but in those situations I just crabbed across the slope.


If money is an issue, get a lockright for the rear. If you want to go CRAZY put one in the front. You'll be locked front and rear for less than a selectable locker or hub conversion. If you think you're having issues in the snow, then consider hubs. But you won't need them.