Knock System

[O-Gauge Steamer]

OK, it is in...

Found that the hole aft of the belt tensioner bracket bolt and forward of the engine mount was tapped to 3/8-16. Ran a tap into the block to clean out the threads and bored out the sensor to 23/64". Cut down a shoulder bolt, added a turn and a half of thread, a dab of Blue Loktite and the Sensor is in. Ran the wire through the firewall and hooked the bloody thing up.

It actually works. Set the frequency to 6KHz as that is the bottom. Phormula assures me that the set frequency is the center of a 1KHz band. Given that the Heep knock frequency should be 5.8KHz, this will be ducky. I still need to finish the setup and do a better job of mounting the electronics. I placed the box at the front of the floor console where it meets the radio bezel. Will take a pic and post. Most likely it will be a few days as I now have to recover from all this.

23/64s... Well, as it turns out that is the diameter of the 3/8 bolt. I did not want to remove any more material from the Sensor than I absolutely had to. I drilled it in two steps, first to 21/64s then out to 23/64s.

Part of the setup has you set the gain until the unit reads 40 knocks under a no load condition (see Phormula's web site for the video) right now, I am only recording 25 so the gain needs to be increased.

At least it is in.

More trivia:
0.020" Copper Safety Wire should only be used on oxygen systems.

 

[O-Gauge Steamer]

The Pic:

 

[Talyn]

That is about the same place I have my wideband display. What is the other thing just ahead of the transfer case lever?

 

[O-Gauge Steamer]

That would be the Davies-Craig EWP115 controller. It controlls the water pump (via PWM and voltage) and turns the main electric fan up to high speed. I have the factory aux fan wired to accept a power up command from either the PCM or the D-C controller. The Ford fan runs on low when the ignition is on. Added a 40A relay to the aux fan circuit. the factory wiring runs through the NC contacts and the NO contacts are controlled via the D-C controller. Simple relay OR gate logic.

Notice my USB port? That is to connect to the F/IC. Had to make a "special" USB cable for it though. One with the "A" connector on both ends. Had I a "proper" "B" connector on hand I would not have had to make the cable.

But... That was what was sitting in the connector drawer so, that is what went in. You know how it is.

 

[Keithmania]

Wait, so you have an electric water pump? I have been thinking about that for a long time now. If you don't mind I have some questions for you.

What did you do about the stock water pump?

What about the water pump pulley?

Did you have to change the belt routing?

What is your performance like with the electric water pump?

 

[Talyn]

I figured that USB was for your radio. You could have used something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Startech-co...A%2BFICS%2BUFI&otn=21&pmod=190618365604&ps=54

Mine is just coiled up for now between the Cb and center console

 

[O-Gauge Steamer]

You could have used something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Startech-co...A%2BFICS%2BUFI&otn=21&pmod=190618365604&ps=54

Mine is just coiled up for now between the Cb and center console

Yah... I thought of that but... Wanted to get it done and that was the part I had on hand. The connector you reference would be a superior solution by far. I may do a refit later but that will entail getting another switch panel.

The whole coil up the wire thing is not for me. It is, I will admit, an obsession with me that things be tidy That being said, when the Kid is here on his Summer break (hopefully) Several wiring changes are going to happen to clean things up as I am not real happy about the way they are now. Untidy in several particulars. Chock it up to growing up with aircraft and Hot Rods. Both require tidy everything.

Meanwhile, back at the Ranch... I ran it hard yesterday on the Map I did right after my Son noticed it was detonating. Zero events which means the timing is way conservative. Phormula states that the system should detect some even on a properly tuned engine.

Time to get after it. My Son should be available to help as it really is a two person job to get it done. One to wick the throttle and the other at the laptop. While I am waiting on him to show up, I will do the static setup the device needs.

Mixture wise, I think I am good as the Long and Short term Trims are where they need to be at 3% and 5% respectively. IMO, this was the hardest challange to do with the Rig on the Street rather than a chassis Dyno. My advice to those that can afford it, is to get to a Dyno and tune the engine. Just make sure it is a load variable dyno so most conditions can be simulated. I have to find hills (easy here...) to load the engine up at the lower RPMs.

What folk need to understand is that I get boost right off idle. Throttle dependant. I can get 6 pounds sitting on the driveway.

As for the placement of the wideband display, I used an A-Pillar gauge mount. So, there are two of them. A double mount and a single mount. They contain the AFR Gauge, the Manifold Pressure Gauge and, the Air Pressure Gauge for the ARB. Wiring for the AFR is routed under the A-Pillar trim and exits at the bottom of the trim via a pair of holes in the trim to run down the side of the dash. Mayhaps, I should take a pic...


The mounts can be had from:
http://egauges.com/vdo_acce.asp?Subgroup=Jeep_Cherokee

More to follow as it happens.

I would like to thank those that have offered constructive criticisms as those help out. So, again, my thanks!

If anyone knows of inexpensive software that I can use to process the output signal from the KS-4 on my laptoop so as to display it, I would be much obliged.

 

[O-Gauge Steamer]

Wait, so you have an electric water pump? I have been thinking about that for a long time now. If you don't mind I have some questions for you.

What did you do about the stock water pump?

What about the water pump pulley?

Did you have to change the belt routing?

What is your performance like with the electric water pump?

Yes, yes I do have an electric water pump...

Gutted the impellor out of the mechanical pump.
Left it.
No.
Gained 2mpg on the highway.
Zero performance gain.

But... And, it is a really big but, I had to deviate away from the installation instructions from Davies-Craig. I also spent $80 on Trans-Pacific telephone calls to Australia to speak with the Engineering Staff. Mine was the first documented installation in an XJ. Problems insued. I resolved them in what the folks Down Under called "creative".

Can I recommend this refit? Hard question. It is not cheap and you will have to cut vents or it will not control the temperature to an acceptable level. I run a CSF three core. The Heep's temperature oscillates between 194F and 201F. At issue is that the controller is in Celsius in 5C increments. I have it set for 90C. Fan comes on 3C above setpoing so, 93C

If anyone is really interested, I think I still have photos of the install and may be able to do a thread for that. This thread, not the place...

Here is a link:
http://www.daviescraig.com.au/TESTIMONIALS-content.aspx

From there you can navigate.

As the signature says, "parts from Australia". Lots of parts from Oz...

 

[Talyn]

The whole coil up the wire thing is not for me. It is, I will admit, an obsession with me that things be tidy

x2. The coiled up wire isn't a permanent solution. I've just been plugging in my notebook quite often so I just leave it there.

IMO, this was the hardest challange to do with the Rig on the Street rather than a chassis Dyno. My advice to those that can afford it, is to get to a Dyno and tune the engine.

I rarely try to do anything while on the street. I usually data log then compare the OBDII log to the FIC log. Its a shame that the FIC can't also log OBDII info.

If anyone knows of inexpensive software that I can use to process the output signal from the KS-4 on my laptoop so as to display it, I would be much obliged.

I took a quick look at the KS-4 and from what I read it has an output. Could you not tie that into the FIC on the extra A or B channel?

 

[O-Gauge Steamer]

^^Good questions, all, as usual...

By "on the Street" I do mean taking the runs on the street. I think we can agree that a chassis dyno is superior all the way around. That being said, it is quicker to take the runs, review the data, make a change and run again. It just takes two people to be efficient about it... In the early stages, changes were being made on the fly for mixture control. Now, it is all about the timing. The goal is to run as much advance as is safe.

We have a section of road here (north end of Powers, between the last two lights) that is near perfect for WOT tuning as well as tuning at lower RPMs. You can do a standing start. For those in the Springs, yes. Yes I can hit the speed limiter (118Mph) about half way between those lights from a standing start at the top of the on ramp. Try that in your lifted, 33s equipped Normally Aspirated Heep.

Just sayin...

If you look at the Phormula website:
http://www.phormula.co.uk/KnockMonitor-KS-4.aspx You can see what I am on about. Being hearing impared, I need all the visual assistance I can get. Have sent Phormula an enquiry about those graphs so we will see. I will contact AEM with your question as well.

Again, I do appreciate all of the constructive criticisms I receive here as we all learn from the interactions. At least, I hope we do. Some here already know everything.

There are a few persons, on this site, whose opinions I highly value. There is a ton of experience here which is why I became a Member.

 

[CobraMarty]

Were you able to reproduce that knock you had a few weeks back and capture it on your new Phormula?

 

[O-Gauge Steamer]

Just got it installed bud. Plus, not all that well at the moment...

 

[CobraMarty]

When and where you got the knock before (rpm,boost,vac) do you think it was a fuel issue or a timing issue? Were you under boost when it occured?
I ask b/c stock 'our' timing curves is very conservative and with taking/adding 1*/pound boost timing retard, I am sure that there is some advance available that will be tolerated.

 

[O-Gauge Steamer]

The detonation began, under 3 pounds of boost, at 2500rpm and continued to redline. I backed a beheebus* amount of timing out of it so it no longer detonates.

The goal, is to run as much timing as can be gotten away with.

As previously stated, the fuel side of the equation is solved. On the "things to do" list is either a 68mm or a 70mm TB (The folks at F&B are recommending the 70mm. F&B supply the TBs for the Kenne Bell SC kits, so they know what they are talking about) which will brighten up the throttle response and may lead to a pound of boost as the stock TB is a restriction at this point. As is, for that matter, my 3" intake tube...

Timing curve. My current map takes much less than 1 full degree out at the 1 pound boost point. I had removed all of the retard from the first two pounds as this should have brought the engine "back to sea level". As of now, about one half of one degree is out at on pound of boost.

We need to keep in mind that the AEM works on PSIa. Where a = absolute. I loose 2.2 pounds of absolute air pressure due to the altitude at which I and my Heep reside. I will see 12.5PSIa where you will see 14.7PSIa with the engine off, on a nice day. I mention "nice day" as the barometric pressure of the day changes the PSIa. Well of course it does, Absolute Pressure.

The idea of restiricting the timing retard until reaching 14.7PSIa has merits and I will be pursuing it again now that the sensor is in place. Maybe it is a valid concept, maybe it is not. The timing map that was in place when the detonation was discovered was very aggressive. Also, the ambient air temperature was pushing 100, I had all three of us in the Heep and the A/C was running. Worst case scenario.

Another variable I can dial in is the the IAT Sensor. The F/IC8 (not the F/IC6) is equipped with the capability. Just need to get the manifold off, cleaned, bored, tapped, bottom covered with Lava Mat and reinstalled. No biggie right? Wrong. Impossible for me to do at this point. As I understand it, as the IAT goes up, the timing will back off. If anyone knows better, please advise as I will appreciate it.

I heard from my Kid and, it looks like August for him to get this way. Provided he does not have to spend any time on a Jury. He was called earlier this year but got a by for being a Student. Manifold will be modified in August provided he gets here.

Heard from the folks at Phormula. So far, it takes them less than one business day to respond to emails I send them. Like the Support!

Here is the link to the software they use and recommend:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/logworks.php

Will investigate this and see where it leads. If it is a viable solution then it may well be the way I will need to go. Will send them an email and post up what I get back.

Every year, I hear less and require more visual input. To that point, I no longer go to the Cinema as without captions, I can not tell what is being said.

Irritating, that is...

*Beheebus. An amount approximately equidistant from OMG to You Gotta Be Kidding Me.

 

[CobraMarty]

That does sound like the worst case senario.
The TB makes sense but $400+, ouch. 70mm would be nice foy you and me both.
Maybe your sensor front location is not in the right spot for the knock sensor to pick up the knock? Maybe move it back to that 7/16 hole?

 

[O-Gauge Steamer]

Maybe, I have the timing way conservative...