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Japan whines about being nuked

Zuki-Ron said:
So... Trail-Axe

You are our social and religious conscience? :scared:

Well, you certainly have a long row to hoe. :worship:

You have dragged your own thread OT and into a social and religious minefield. I told you that it's crap, and seeing that you respect a number of us, I would have thought you would have listened to that advice. I must not be one of the respected few :(

In order to support your statements, you have to generate a set of Givens.
Givens are statements that we agree are true in order to continue a logical conversation.

The first given is that "live" begins at conception. That is to say when the sperm hit the egg, and a division happens. I'll give you that.

The second one is more difficult, when is the soul conceived? Is it when the 1st division occurred, or is is when the live form becomes self aware. No consensus on that one, eh?

How about what constitutes murder? The law has one definition, the church another, and none of them apply to animals. Why not animals? Do they not have a soul, and are not self aware, or is this just a Man thing?
Is murder the destruction of a "potential" person, or a whole, out of the birth canal "person"? Again, no consensus.

So, you see, no logical discussion can accrue as too many "Givens" are ambiguous. So now it is an emotional discussion, which by the very definitions of emotion and discussion, is impossible to have.

See why it's crap now?
Click to expand...


Thanks...like I don't have enough to think about already.

Pondering the problematic issues of social injustice on Naxja is like going to the proctologist. I mean, sure you could but, why the HELL would you want to?


Anyway there are much bigger problems....CHEF is dead. :jester:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080810/ap_on_re_us/obit_isaac_hayes
 
The soul is conceived at conception. I will spare you the Biblical support for this, but anyone that does desire to know can PM me and I will provide it. If becoming self aware is a requirement for the the conception of the soul, then one born mentally incapacitated must not have a soul by this reasoning. Murder is well defined, both Biblical, and in our society. Killing the unborn child is considered murder in many states, and I am not talking about abortion. We have laws on the books that if you so injure a woman so as to cause her unborn child to die, you will be charged with murder.

As far as being your social and religious conscience, I don't think I ever made that claim. I do however stimulate social and religious thought, and think discussing it in an open forum is not only healthy, but one of the freedoms this country allows. I read the Bible, and I make what I read known as I see fit. Just like many of you often let me know just how you feel as you see fit. The problem is, the Bible. Not me. From time to time I quote what God has spoken, and because of that message i get the flame on.

I especially find it interesting that some of you agree with some of the opinions I hold, but yet your fear of being treated as i have been prevents you from speaking the truth. Why? This is an open forum, there are no specific rules to holding one opinion or another. Are you really that afraid of the comments of some kid you have never met, or a comment from some guy you really could care less about, as if his verbal assault against you actually defined you?

If you can not stand up for what you believe to be true, and those who suffer from moral and religious ignorance are allowed to control what is discussed, then you really have no right to gripe when the evening news you watch panders to the liberal left and our morally bankrupt society. Stupidity is not so much revealed in speaking out in defence of ones moral convictions, but in remaining silent because one is more afraid of public opinion then the God whom he loves.
:us:
 
When I learned what the Japanese did in china, see the Rape of Nanking, as well as the wholesale slaughter, rape, murder, and theft they committed, I really stopped caring about what they whine about.

They corrupted bushido in order to convince their population that the highest goal they could obtain was to die with their emperors Name on their lips, they abandoned entire divisions when the outlook turned hopeless and gave them orders that they were to kill x number of attackers before they could give up, gave no quarter to surrendering troops, ignored any sense of honorable behavior. Yea, I could care less. 250,000 is a better trade off than 1.5million +.

I have never liked Japanese culture, from Manga, to the way they treat women, to the superiority complex they have as a group. I took a college course on ww2 History, and became interested in the pacific war. It continues to amaze me that the Japanese killed more people, and committed worse war crimes, yet escaped with little to no punishment, and most people have never heard about it.
 
Dropping the atom bomb on Japan did three things.

1. Showed Russia we had it.
2. Put the US in the category of the nations who use a weapon of mass destruction.
3. Ended a war that the US populace had grown weary of.
 
Never start a fight unless you are willing to get hurt. Japanese leaders made a bad decision. They could not tell what the future held, but they put their nation and people at risk the moment they went to war.

We did not develop a nuclear weapon and then "try it out" on some random nation. I suspect nuclear weapons may have been another 10 to 15 years later if it wasn't for the threat of the evil axis, Germany, Italy, and Japan.

Remember too that when we first started testing the atom bomb, we had people well with in the dangerous area of radiation. We simply didn't understand what we were dealing with at that time, not fully, so birth defects and high instances of cancer were not fully understood.

Looking back you may see where you went wrong on your path, but had you changed your direction then would you be in a better place now?
 
Trail-Axe said:
The soul is conceived at conception. I will spare you the Biblical support for this, but anyone that does desire to know can PM me and I will provide it. If becoming self aware is a requirement for the the conception of the soul, then one born mentally incapacitated must not have a soul by this reasoning. Murder is well defined, both Biblical, and in our society. Killing the unborn child is considered murder in many states, and I am not talking about abortion. We have laws on the books that if you so injure a woman so as to cause her unborn child to die, you will be charged with murder.

As far as being your social and religious conscience, I don't think I ever made that claim. I do however stimulate social and religious thought, and think discussing it in an open forum is not only healthy, but one of the freedoms this country allows. I read the Bible, and I make what I read known as I see fit. Just like many of you often let me know just how you feel as you see fit. The problem is, the Bible. Not me. From time to time I quote what God has spoken, and because of that message i get the flame on.

I especially find it interesting that some of you agree with some of the opinions I hold, but yet your fear of being treated as i have been prevents you from speaking the truth. Why? This is an open forum, there are no specific rules to holding one opinion or another. Are you really that afraid of the comments of some kid you have never met, or a comment from some guy you really could care less about, as if his verbal assault against you actually defined you?

If you can not stand up for what you believe to be true, and those who suffer from moral and religious ignorance are allowed to control what is discussed, then you really have no right to gripe when the evening news you watch panders to the liberal left and our morally bankrupt society. Stupidity is not so much revealed in speaking out in defence of ones moral convictions, but in remaining silent because one is more afraid of public opinion then the God whom he loves.
:us:
Click to expand...

If I may, no one likes getting preached to, let alone a group of people who by their very nature are independent thinkers. It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools. The problem is not the Bible, but how you implement it's use. If you stop preaching and start listening, you may learn something. If you stop preaching and start quietly nudging, you may see movement in your direction...or not, as the case may be. There is an old saying, "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar". That goes for people also.

As far as proof goes, I do not accept the Bible as an acceptable source of proof. It has been used as a working document too long to be reliable. The accounts inside are hearsay at best. God did not write the Bible, he did not write the Koran, and he didn't write the Mormon Bible, people did, and long after the events actually happened. There is a lot of common sense in those books, but unless you are carrying on a theological debate, which I wasn't, your source is invalid.

There is no scientific evidence of the existence of a soul, or if there is one, when it is imparted on a being.

The definition of murder what includes the unborn fetus with the Murder of the Mother is not universal, even within the borders of the US, and is something that Pro-Life activists had written in. Those laws usually only apply when the Fetus is developed enough for movement (quick) and again, only if the act is premeditated. So you see, abortion by definition of the law is not murder.

To tie this all in with your comment to 8MUD. You were off base comparing abortion to the suffering of the Japanese children because of birth defects and mutation. The two are not the same, and if you can't see that, I can't make it any clearer.

For the sake of this discussion, it is not relevant what the Japanese did in China.
At this juncture, it is not even relevant what they did to us.
Yes, what that generation did was terrible and in many cased inhumane. However, you can not blame the present generation of any nation or culture for the faults of their fathers.
 
Zuki-Ron said:
If I may, no one likes getting preached to, let alone a group of people who by their very nature are independent thinkers. It is a poor craftsman who blames his tools. The problem is not the Bible, but how you implement it's use. If you stop preaching and start listening, you may learn something.
Click to expand...

Does your hypocrisy have no limits? Is not your advise to me on how I am to speak not preaching in its highest regard? Did you ever ponder the possibility that maybe it is you that might need to listen and learn? Amazing. A poor craftsman may indeed blame his tools, but I am not the craftsman. I am the tool (did he just call himself a tool?) :) The problem is not that I stoke the cat in the wrong direction, for it is the cat needs to turn around.

You made first mention of a soul, I just went from there. The simple fact that you do not regard the bible as the inspired word of God says all I need to know about you. You, by your ignorance, have placed yourself above the authority of God. You love and seek the praise of men, so as to puff your self up with their praise. You write what you think others will hear, and have no real opinion save what is popular at the time. If you can not see that abortion is murder, then you are a blind man, and speaking to you would be foolish indeed. Good day.
 
DON'T BE HATIN ' !!




malibu-s-most-wanted-6.jpg









cookiemonster.jpg
 
Both of you make valid points.

1. The bible is not a valid tool to use as a reference to use in an arguement with non-christians.
2. Abortion is the termination of a human life, and as such should be considered "killing" or in many circumstances "murder for convienience"


Japanese had to be shocked into surrender in a culture that did not allow surrender, we had no choice, they gave us none.
 
goodburbon said:
Japanese had to be shocked into surrender in a culture that did not allow surrender, we had no choice, they gave us none.
Click to expand...

Sounds a lot like the "culture" we're fighting today....
 
I totaly agree with the fact that japan would have fought to the last man
if not for the 2 bombs but i'm not sure that w w 2 is over yet . I think it has
changed into an economic war and we aint doing to good on that front
them little a-- holes are still coming at us and not a lot of people in this country
realize it. keep your powder dry, your hubs locked in an your beer cold
 
Abortion, ohhh noo.
Ok here it goes.
Seeing as I dont think we have souls the abortion issue is pretty easy and straight forward for me. Sorry for the rest of you who have issues in that department.
An abortion should be illegal at exactly the point that a fetus shows signs that it "wants to live".
Any reaction to pain or discomfort is a survival reflex. If someone sticks you with a pin, you flinch, if you touch something hot, you pull away. your BP goes up, heart rate increases, ect. A number of things automatically happen to you when you are subjected to pain or discomfort. These are attempts at self preservation (ie: you want to live). At some point in a fetuses development that automatic response for self preservation kicks in. Right then should be the cutoff for abortion.
Do I know when that point is? NO I dont. Maybe someone here does. It doesnt matter to me when it is, it could happen at conception, it could hapeen seconds before the baby pops out, I dont know. Anyone??
 
8Mud said:
ISimple question, you drop a 500 pound bomb, it's likely, unless you drop it on your own troops, you are committing genocide.
Sometimes right or wrong and labels just aren't relevant anymore.
Wiki
"Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group."
I guess it's only genocide, when someone else is doing it.
Click to expand...

Maybe you should read a bit more in that post from WIKI;
Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be the disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups.[5]

I may be wrong but war between Armies is not considered genocide.

Oh course I may have just misunderstood what you were saying.
 
fscrig75 said:
Maybe you should read a bit more in that post from WIKI;
Generally speaking, genocide does not necessarily mean the immediate destruction of a nation, except when accomplished by mass killings of all members of a nation. It is intended rather to signify a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. The objectives of such a plan would be the disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups.[5]

I may be wrong but war between Armies is not considered genocide.

Oh course I may have just misunderstood what you were saying.
Click to expand...

My main point was to try and look at most situations/conflicts through the eyes of both parties. Spend a few minutes trying to see things from the other guys point of view. Something that often gets easier to do after the wisdom teeth come in and often becomes harder to live with at the same time.
I'm from the old school, Firepower, shock affect and mobility wins battles.
Many of the wars fought are genocide, until you start in with the rationalizations, bring in the lawyers and argue the fine points and/or declare yourself the righteous one, after you have won.
I'm not condemning the use of overwhelming firepower by any means. I'm just advocating having a conscience and some empathy.
 
War is good for no one. I think everyone will pretty much agree with that. The people that push war are the ones usually that have never been on the working end of a weapon system.
But it is a necessary evil. We can't change the nature of man and his/her desire for wealth and power.
Yes you are correct typically the winner is determined to be the righteous one. Which is usually us and our allies.
I just can't call the AF dropping a 500lb bomb on an insurgent enclave killing 20 or so, the same word that describes what the Nazis, Serbs and the Dafur governments did to people living in thier countries.
Genocide is against a people, regardless of their government. War is against a government, regardless of their people. Very similar in actions, but drastically different in ideology.
 
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