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Here it comes!!

Boatwrench said:
Why is everyone so afraid of a national helath care system? You have health care through your job right? So will you really be affected by a nationalized system?

Just curious.
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Never heard of Kaiser Permanente, huh?
:scared:
 
XJEEPER said:
Nope, you'll contine to get the same crappy, sub-quality care that your current government plan provides......
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LOL, thank God.

What I meant was opting out of paying for everyone elses healthcare.

At work they always try to get me to pay for their healthcare, so I tell them I get VA and I don't want the deductions from my pay. If Obama goes through with this, then maybe I can tell him to shove it when he tries to deduct taxes out of me. Although, I guess there will no longer be a VA healthcare system if his plan works.
 
wolfpackjeeper said:
Actually, the police are here to enforce the laws and provide public security. They are not here to provide security to me or to protect me in any personal sense. In the bigger picture, by arresting killers and rapists they are helping to protect me, but if I am attacked the chance that an officer will be there to help is slim to nill.

which is exactly what you will get under a national healthcare. I believe quality will go down.
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Actually thats only half right, they are there strictly to enforce laws, usually afterwards, nothing about public security or public safety. Supreme court has already made two or three clarifications on this.
 
the public part would be them out and about. They will not be in my house or patrolling a private area, but they will be on gov't owned roads and property (usually public area), enforcing laws.

but yea, I'm picking up what you are putting down.
 
XJEEPER said:
I suggest that you actual read the Healthcare related sections of the Stimulus Plan, because they contradict your position.
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:doh:

Again, you missed the point I was making.

At any rate, considering I haven't outlined my position, you can't possibly know what it is.
 
Bent said:
Never heard of Kaiser Permanente, huh?
:scared:
Click to expand...

Yes was covered by Kaiser with 1st job out of the military. Joined it because my wife had it as a child, one of two health plans offered by the Union I belong to. When I left that dealer and went to work for the county Kaiser was offered but I took Blue Shield instead.

I will say Kaiser has gotten better over the past 20 years and they treat my 92yo mother in law well.
 
bigalpha said:
:doh:

Again, you missed the point I was making.

At any rate, considering I haven't outlined my position, you can't possibly know what it is.
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No, I didn't miss the point that you were attempting to make. I think it was pretty clear, I just don't agree with it and that's OK too. Nationalized Healthcare is not the same as localized law enforcement, although I can see why you attempted to create a parallel.
Sorry if I confused your point and your position.........
 
How are you going to pay for your helth care IF you retire. the current situation is that almost all employers cut off your... helth care benifits after you retire. This means that you go on medicare after you turn 65 (or is it 67 now?). Anyway, you have to cover helth costs until you reach that age. A guy at my work estemated that just his costs were going to be ~600/month. If your retirement income is ~2K/month that's more than 25% of your income. Hopefuly you don't have a mortgage on top of that. I know it may sound selfish, but I'm OK with nationalized health care because I don't want to have to work until I'm dead so that I have health coverage.
As far as insurance companies go, I think they are in business to make money. If the can maximize their profits by denying benifits to their patients, they will do it. In fact I've been victim of this myself. Had a torn rotator cuff that Kaiser provided no viable treatment for... Maybe they were right to deny treatment, after 5 years my sholder is somewhat usable.
 
Who says you have to retire at 65? If you are in a financial situation to do so, great! If not, then keep working and paying your own way.

This should be goal for all Americans, to take care of yourself and not expect the government to provide you with assistance.
 
XJEEPER said:
Who says you have to retire at 65? If you are in a financial situation to do so, great! If not, then keep working and paying your own way.

This should be goal for all Americans, to take care of yourself and not expect the government to provide you with assistance.
Click to expand...

God knows, I've been trying, been working since I was 14 and over the last 19 years of government policy they keep exporting my jobs overseas. Those out of work periods take a while to recover from. Been through 4 of them now. This last one was the longest, 9 months.
 
bigalpha said:
You are paying for police (for yourself or others) whether or not you "use" them.
You are paying for healthcare (for yourself and others) whether or not you use it.
Click to expand...

Completely disagree. This is a terrible analogy.

There may come a time where I need to "use" the police force, and whether or not I DIRECTLY have face to face contact with them, they are still out there protecting/enforcing.

I have absolutely ZERO use for Nationalized health care. I already have my own healthcare provided by my job (military) - yet I still pay taxes for OTHERS to use Medicare/Medicaid that I have never and will never use!
 
Coastie said:
:yelclap::yelclap::yelclap::yelclap:
Click to expand...

100 a month and start as early as possible. The wife and I should have all our CC debt done in about 6 months. As we pay off a card, we just start paying that amount into a good (4%) money market. As soon as we have a good chunk we will start looking into IRAs.

I believe that the Gentleman from USAA who spoke to my graduating class last year said that $100 a month invested wisely and deposited from 22 to 32 years old will net you twice as much at retirement as saving $200 a month from 40 to 60 years old.
 
my argument was not for the national health care. I am against it. My mother works as a PT for the county driving around to people who cannot afford to come to the hospital or afford a nursing home. She is very much against national healthcare.

I said you could try saving to the person who was wondering what they would do after retirement.
 
And I thought the point of working was to earn money for yourself and your family, not for people who don't want/refuse to work, or who don't pay taxes.

:dunno:

I can't understand why Democrats/Socialists can't comprehend that simple idea...
 
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