HELP 4.0 Engine Install (5-90, others)

[gmcelroy]

I just put a 1995 4.0 into my 93 Cherokee......I had the motor mounts aligned and the 4 engine mounting bolts on the trannie tightened....I cannot get the flywheel / converter bolt holes to align....Have spent hours on this......

Now I have the trannie mounts disconnected as well as the two front mounts......I took out the 2 star head bolts at the top of the motor and loosened the 2 side bolts......

HELP

 

[csr_011]

This is usally a simple task if the bolt patterns are the same. Are you sure the bolt pattern is the same?? Sounds like maybe a mismatch!

Hate to state the obvious, but have you turned the crankshaft and tried a bolt in each position until it lines up?

Cory

 

[xjtrailrider]

It sounds like the torque converter may not be fully seated onto the pump of the tranny.
1;Did you make sure that the torque converter clicked in 3 steps as you turned it on the tranny shaft?
2;Does the torque converter rotate at all with the motor in?
3;Look and make sure that the torque converter is not mashing hard onto the flexplate. If it is then the torque converter is not fully installed.

I've had the torque converters slip forward during the engine removal process and I make it a point now to recheck the seating of it before I drop the motor in.

If you answered no to 1 and 2 and yes to 3 you may have to pull the motor back out and recheck the torque converter. The motor should side all the way onto the bell housing with little effort(maybe some shaking and wiggling as long as the lift has the motor level with the tranny) and without pulling it down with any of the bolts.

When installed properly the torque converter will slide in further towards the tranny than the the flex plate does so you may have to pull the torque converter towards the flex plate and rotate it to align the four bolts.

 

[5-90]

I have found it useful, when working with automatics, to install the torque converter into the transmission with one hole at DEAD BOTTOM CENTRE.

Then, you can put the engine/transmission in place (whichever one you were removing,) and turn the flexplate with a screwdriver (using the ring gear teeth) until a screw hole should line up with the torque converter screw boss. Install a screw finger tight only, then turn it and get the other three.

Once the four (in our case) screws are installed, you can then tighten them.

I usually find it helpful to make a small paint or chalk mark at the first hole - so you know when you've come full circle. When installing a new flexplate, I'll usually just stamp numbers in the holes - in this pattern...

---1---
3-----4
---2---

(Ignore the bars - they're there to preserve formatting.)

This not only helps me keep track of the screws, it reminds me that they should be torqued in a crosswise pattern to keep things even.

5-90

 

[gmcelroy]

I am able to spin the torque converter with my finger tips with no problem. I have spun the converter 360 degrees.
When I have everything lined up, the holes in the converter are about 1/8 higher than the flywheel holes. The screws reach the converter without a problem. Based on the above, I believe that the torque converter is on the trannie properly.

I now have disconnected the motor mounts,dropped the trannie cross member and still no luck.

This is my fear, when I installed the motor it went in at a angle (the front elevated...this was a one man job, I had no help). Even though it was on an angle, I was able to easily bolt the motor to the trannie with 4 bolts (2 regular bolts & 2 star bolts). Then I installed the motor mounts (which was a challenge) and then tried to bolt up the torque converter to the flywheel and no dice.

I am trying to resolve this without taking the motor out again since 1) I'm a one man operation & 2) I would need to rent an engine puller again.

 

[gmcelroy]

One last thing, I used the flywheel off of the motor I took out

 

[xjtrailrider]

Sounds like everything is good on the tranny side, if the motor is on the dowl pins corectly and the bolts line up, all should be good.

I always pull/drop engines in by myself and I always use one of the tilt bars to angle and level the motor, I've found that I don't even need to remove the hood to get them in and out.

Try picking up on the torque converter, it may just be sagging downward a bit. I always replace the tranny pump seal while the engine is out and drain the t/c and refill it. The new seal will help hold the t/c in place a little better.

Or jack up the front end of the tranny to help lign it up.

 

[gmcelroy]

Actually the holes in the converter are higher than the holes in the flywheel.

I try to jack the motor up and it takes the trannie with it.
Gosh, I thought bolting up the flywheel to the torque converter would take 5 minutes. This is just nuts and makes no sense.

 

[xjtrailrider]

If you can post up some pics, that will help us help you! The more pics the better.

 

[gmcelroy]

Ok, I think I screwed up.

I have drawn the conclusion that I must have used the flywheel from the replacement motor by accident. Also, the new motor must have been mated to a 5 speed so this is why the flywheel holes will not match the torque converter.

So I have to pull the motor out again.

Any thoughts where I can get 1) flex plate and 2) the aluminum cover that goes behind the top of the motor?

Also, I think I'm going to pull the torque converter this time. What should I replace on the trannie? (ie. just the front seal?) Are there any o-rings on the converter?

Thanks much everybody...I will get this motor done one way the another....It might take another 6 months but I'm not quitting on this ole XJ

 

[langer1]

Ah yes automatics don't have a flywheel, also there will be a brass bushing pressed into the hole in the center of the crank that must be removed.
There is a seal in the front of the trany and it should be replaced.

 

[5-90]

Bear in mind - if it's an automatic, it's a "flexplate," not a "flywheel."

Differences? A flexplate is made from (usually) heavy sheetmetal or lightweight plate (~1/8" thick or so) and the flyweight is provided by the torque converter mass and the gallon or so of fluid in there.

A flywheel is usually just cast iron, and a good inch or so thick. You can't bolt a torque converter to a flywheel without some serious work - I wouldn't want to try to make it work while lying flat on my back.

And, as I recall, pretty much all AW4 torque converters (Toyota, Jeep, and Lexus) use the same four-screw pattern, so it shouldn't be an issue mixing up the flexplates. Since AMC inline six crankshafts can be readily swapped around, they probably have the same six-screw pattern at their hub as well.

Short answer - back out, have a beer, and try again. Somtimes we just get too close to the problem to think clearly...

5-90

 

[gmcelroy]

5-90, Does a 5 speed have a flex plate as well or just a flywheel?

Are the flex plates from a Grand Cherokee and XJ interchangable?

 

[gmcelroy]

I think I just stumbled upon something....
A 95 Grand Cherokee does not have a AW4 trannie right?
My motor came out of a 95 Grand Cherokee, perhaps this is why the flex plate holes will not match?

 

[5-90]

5-90, Does a 5 speed have a flex plate as well or just a flywheel?

Are the flex plates from a Grand Cherokee and XJ interchangable?

A manual always has a flywheel, while an automatic will have a flexplate.

The flyweight (whichever sort) is there to smooth out engine operation between firing impulses at the crankshaft. Since the torque converter (filled with fluid) is fairly heavy, a separate flywheel is not needed - just a plate ("flexplate") to connect the crankshaft to the torque converter.

With a manual (any manual,) a flywheel is used partly to make up the mass needed for smooth operation, and partly to give enough rigid surface and heat sinking to allow the clutch to operate.

They're easy to tell apart anyhow - as I'd said, the flywheel is about an inch thick and solid, and the flexplate is about 1/8" thick. If you have three pedals, you have a flywheel. If you only have two, you have a flexplate.

5-90

 

[gmcelroy]

5-90, Does a Grand Cherokee with a non AW4 have a flex plate with a different bolt pattern for the torque converter?

 

[5-90]

5-90, Does a Grand Cherokee with a non AW4 have a flex plate with a different bolt pattern for the torque converter?

Probably. If it's not an AW4, it's a ChryCo slushbox - and I seem to recall that there were no less than three bolt patterns in use - just in the ZJ!

5-90

 

[gmcelroy]

Thats the problem 5-90. I knew something was wrong....I appreciate your help with this.......Thanks much

 

[RandyD71]

I think I just stumbled upon something....
A 95 Grand Cherokee does not have a AW4 trannie right?
My motor came out of a 95 Grand Cherokee, perhaps this is why the flex plate holes will not match?

You are right. The grand cherokee has a chrysler trans in it not an AW4. That will more than likely solve your problem. It may be easier for you to pull the trans down and put it back up by yourself though. Good luck.

 

[5-90]

That's the little factoid that I didn't pick up, then.

Fortunately, the crankshaft screw circles should be the same, so you should have no trouble swapping the flexplates. You can get away with doing that by lowering the transmission on a floor jack - but I still advise using LocTite #242 on the screw threads.

If you need quality replacements, ARP has a kit for a Pontiac flexplate that I've used - I don't recall the part number, but the screws are 1/2"-20 x ~1/2" (a shade longer, as I recall.) I've used this on my 87 and one of my 89's, when I changed the flexplates...

5-90