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Harmonic Balancer seal
- Thread starter bigalpha
- Start date
bigalpha
Moderator
- Location
- Tucson, AZ
At this point, I have no indications of problems with the chain; so perhaps I'll leave that step out.
Talyn
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Radford, Communistwealth of Virginia
It is not part of the HB itself, but the seal touches the HB and seals the HB hole in the timing cover.
In the image above the seal in question is the black one on the left side.
snowonweb
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Connecticut, USA
It is not part of the HB itself, but the seal touches the HB and seals the HB hole in the timing cover.
In the image above the seal in question is the black one on the left side.
Is that black part in the hole the main seal? or is the main seal behind that oil retainer thing? Are there two separate seals?
Also is there some kind of timing chain tensioner? is that black rubberry thing attached inside to side of timing chain cover?
Talyn
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Radford, Communistwealth of Virginia
That black seal is the main seal, the only one.
There is a rubber block. Some call it a tensioner but I just call it junk. It really doesn't do anything and it is on the tension side of the timing chain, which means it could up screw with the cam timing. The slack side of the chain is where a tensioner needs to be, but there isn't one there.
There is a rubber block. Some call it a tensioner but I just call it junk. It really doesn't do anything and it is on the tension side of the timing chain, which means it could up screw with the cam timing. The slack side of the chain is where a tensioner needs to be, but there isn't one there.
snowonweb
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Connecticut, USA
Does anyone know the front seals part number. I went to AutoZone and Advaned Auto Parts and both stores didn't even stock it. Told me dealer item only.
92 XJ L6 4.0 H.O.
92 XJ L6 4.0 H.O.
GrimmJeeper
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Gardena, CA
NAPA #17806, I have 4 of them in stock right now but my store is a bit of a drive from you 
check your local NAPA Auto parts store. you can change it without pulling the timing cover off but if you do pull the cover you're going to need the timing cover gasket set, which contains the seal in it as well. The Fel-Pro number for the timing cover set is TCS45117. the right way to do it would be to pull the oil pan and change that gasket as well though if you pull the timing cover. the number for the oil pan set is OS34308R.
I would just try to change the seal with the cover still on the motor, much less work
check your local NAPA Auto parts store. you can change it without pulling the timing cover off but if you do pull the cover you're going to need the timing cover gasket set, which contains the seal in it as well. The Fel-Pro number for the timing cover set is TCS45117. the right way to do it would be to pull the oil pan and change that gasket as well though if you pull the timing cover. the number for the oil pan set is OS34308R.
I would just try to change the seal with the cover still on the motor, much less work
8Mud
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Central Germany
I always use a steering wheel puller and never had any issues. Be careful when screwing in the puller bolts, not too far in, the inside of the puller bolt holes are right on edge of the circular seal seat on timing chain cover (aluminum), bad place to put a ding ( I came close once).
The most trouble I've had is getting the old seal out, without seriously scratching the aluminum. The last one I did was glued in there pretty solid, some sort of black gasket sealer, not silicon. The ones I did on my 87 and 88 were a lot easier than the 96 (I think the dealer had done it once before, I bought the 96 used).
The most trouble I've had is getting the old seal out, without seriously scratching the aluminum. The last one I did was glued in there pretty solid, some sort of black gasket sealer, not silicon. The ones I did on my 87 and 88 were a lot easier than the 96 (I think the dealer had done it once before, I bought the 96 used).
- Location
- San Diego
do yourself a favor and get a haynes or chiltons manual... it has a detailed explanation of how to do this seal...
and FWIW I found it much easier to do the seal with the timing cover off.... it can be a PITA to get the old one out... I wouldn't even try it without the Rad out of there.
as far as the HB goes, remember to pull the washer off before you use the puller, or you will end up like me and just rip your old HB into pieces. :gee:
and FWIW I found it much easier to do the seal with the timing cover off.... it can be a PITA to get the old one out... I wouldn't even try it without the Rad out of there.
as far as the HB goes, remember to pull the washer off before you use the puller, or you will end up like me and just rip your old HB into pieces. :gee:
snowonweb
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Connecticut, USA
I have haynes manual and have timing cover off, radiators are off, head is off. oil pan is off. plus most of engine accessories.
Thank You very much I found the seal in my timing cover kit by felpro.
Thank You very much I found the seal in my timing cover kit by felpro.
8Mud
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Central Germany
LOL as many times as I have done that job, I tried to pull it the last time with the washer still on there. I'm really glad I stopped to take second look before it grenaded.:doh:
- Location
- San Diego
ha.... it wasn't too bad... just that initial "oh shit... what do I do now" a quick call to my mechanic and he told me to cut a notch in the remaining piece with an angle grinder and break it in half with a chisel... took about 5 minutes.
next time I'll remember to pull that washer :doh:
xcm
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Southern Oregon
recently did this on 2 differant jeeps. one wasnt the seal at all... but rather a HOLE in front of the timing cover.
theres no reason to pull the radiator imho, but the front bumper has gotta go. i also pulled the front axle for ease of oil pan re-installation.
when it comes to pullers, i have the common hb puller, and if it was half an inch longer, it wouldnt work, it sits RIIIIGHT up against the inside of the front crossmember steel. i put the round side of a combination wrench (a wratcheting wrench would be awesome, its the only one missing from my set though) over the puller hex head, thread it into the harmonic balancer, then pull it. obviously you dont want to just pull it the whole way with the bolt alone, instead tap the balancer with a hammer constantly, crank it a couple quarter turns, then repeat. think of it like using a pipe cutter.
theres no reason to pull the radiator imho, but the front bumper has gotta go. i also pulled the front axle for ease of oil pan re-installation.
when it comes to pullers, i have the common hb puller, and if it was half an inch longer, it wouldnt work, it sits RIIIIGHT up against the inside of the front crossmember steel. i put the round side of a combination wrench (a wratcheting wrench would be awesome, its the only one missing from my set though) over the puller hex head, thread it into the harmonic balancer, then pull it. obviously you dont want to just pull it the whole way with the bolt alone, instead tap the balancer with a hammer constantly, crank it a couple quarter turns, then repeat. think of it like using a pipe cutter.
- Location
- San Diego
so you pulled the front axle but won't pull the rad..... wtf... :doh:
snowonweb
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Connecticut, USA
Yes my puller's long shaft bolt was sitting right to the metal and I had to take the bumper off to be able to turn puller's bolt. Once I took bumper off it was a breeze to take off HB. Just got new HB from AutoZone. I went with Pioneer ($68.00) instead of Dorman ($46.00).
I am a little concerned with installation. I couldn't find the bolt with thread all the way to the end so I just got regular bolt that is 1/3rd threaded. I am hoping the installation will go smooth. I have heard of boiling the HB in boiling water but wouldn't that unglue the rubber part of the HB.
I am also ready to replace timing chain with timing chain set. I got the bolts loose already so just pull old one out and put new one in, that way I don't have to mess with timing at all.
Overall it was not difficult job but very tedious and time consuming with many bolts. I would suggest not only keeping the bolts in separate containers but also labeling each container and making a sketch what bolt goes where. For example timing cover has two different bolts that I already forgot where they go. same goes for oil pan and valve cover, even head has different kinds of bolts, so even though I kept bolts in separate container I can see I will have problem putting things back together.
- Location
- San Diego
yea... when I did the timing cover I just had to play trial and error with the bolts until they all went in... :gee:
Talyn
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Radford, Communistwealth of Virginia
I haven't had to remove the bumper to remove the HB or replace the seal. I use the puller/installer from Advance Auto and there is just enough room to get it in there.
8Mud
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Central Germany
The time before last I had the bumper off as I was installing OEM tow hooks anyway and had the radiator out for replacement. Jeep day, I was trying to get everything done in the front that needed doing all at one time.
Sure made replacing the Balancer seal a lot easier, I could get a ratchet and extension in through the front and it was easier keeping the puller straight. I had a few more angles to use trying to pry the seal out without damaging anything. Fewer sharp edges to cut your hands and forearms, more room to get out of they way if the balancer decides to fall.
I have replaced this seal with the timing cover on the engine. If I do it again I will remove the cover and do it on the bench.
That seal is stuck in there pretty good, and with the cover on the motor, the crankshaft snout sticks through the center of the seal. There is not much room to get a screwdriver or seal puller between the crank and seal, and you have to be damn careful not to scratch that crank snout. I did it without removing the radiator, and there was just barely enough room to use a seal puller. Even so, I managed to put a small scratch on the crank with the back edge of the seal puller. So far it has not leaked, but that is not the way I want to do things.
If you insist on not removing the cover, try to find a smallish seal puller. Then take a file or grinder and round over the sharp edges on the back of the puller (I'm referring to the edge on top of the "T" shape that most seal puller have).
You will also need a socket sized slightly smaller than the bore in the timing
cover, and a small dead blow hammer, to drive in the new seal.
To pull on the HB I used a 4 or 5 inch stick of 1/2"-20 threaded rod, since I could not find a long enough bolt that had enough threads to work properly. I used two nuts jammed together at the end as a makeshift bolt head.
That seal is stuck in there pretty good, and with the cover on the motor, the crankshaft snout sticks through the center of the seal. There is not much room to get a screwdriver or seal puller between the crank and seal, and you have to be damn careful not to scratch that crank snout. I did it without removing the radiator, and there was just barely enough room to use a seal puller. Even so, I managed to put a small scratch on the crank with the back edge of the seal puller. So far it has not leaked, but that is not the way I want to do things.
If you insist on not removing the cover, try to find a smallish seal puller. Then take a file or grinder and round over the sharp edges on the back of the puller (I'm referring to the edge on top of the "T" shape that most seal puller have).
You will also need a socket sized slightly smaller than the bore in the timing
cover, and a small dead blow hammer, to drive in the new seal.
To pull on the HB I used a 4 or 5 inch stick of 1/2"-20 threaded rod, since I could not find a long enough bolt that had enough threads to work properly. I used two nuts jammed together at the end as a makeshift bolt head.
snowonweb
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Connecticut, USA
Did the thread the rod yourself or bought it somewhere. Seems when I worked in the machine shop I have seen them everywhere.
I did buy a threaded bolt but it's only threaded 1/3 way. I see how it works soon.
I have taken off and put up new timing belt. I haven't really matched the arrows on the truck, but I kept old timing belt as set when I took it off and matched new set to the old set on the table, then I put it back on. It seemed to fit a little weird, tight on one side, almost too tight and loose on the left/bottom side. Took me 4-5 tries, I kept taking it off and double checking and triple checking. Finally I took the bolt and tightened it a little and the bigger wheel went in the way it should. Night and day comparing to my old timing chain. New one has very little play while old one at least inch on each side.
I am getting ready to put the timing chain cover back on. My Fel-Pro set came with a sleeve and bottom gasket. Sleeve I will not be using since I am putting on new HB and I won't be using bottom piece as the oil pan gasket is one piece.
This is the biggest job I ever done on the car yet. The farther I went before was replace valve gasket and brake jobs.
