disco'd feels tippy.....

[Red97XJ]

OK, I thought this may get better with time, but its not. I am Past the one year mark.

I have a 97 4dr Xj. RE 3.5 superflex lift with full packs. Sye, etc. running 32"MTR's. No rear sway bar.

When I leave the front Sway bar connected, it feels very stable to me on side inclines/off camber stuff, but won't flex at all. Disco'd I feel like if I place a back tire on a 1.5' - 2' rock it feels like its going to go on its side.

What do you guys think? Is there any trick that gets me a middle ground?

Thanks,
Jason

 

[BrettM]

Disco'd I feel like if I place a back tire on a 1.5' - 2' rock it feels like its going to go on its side.

sounds like you need some more flex out of the rear, do some searching for that, it's been covered many times. another alternative would be stiffer front coils to make it more balanced.

 

[Red97XJ]

forgot to add, I have a cargo box that is not exactly light, so I added the RE longer shackle that gives a 3/4" lift also. I felt the tippiness before and after.

 

[xjj33p3r]

Add some concrete bags back there. It'll sag a bit, but it'll flex better

 

[tealcherokee]

it took me some time to get used to that feeling, if your running a real tire (bias swamper basically) i ran my fronts at like 10 and rears at like 5 till i got used to it

 

[cwlongshot]

I think you should better understand whats is hapening to give you this feeling. When you are out on the trail have a buddie flex out his rig and leave it there. Walk around it look and see what is being effected by the flex. Now do it with yours. Maybe this time snap some pictures, not just poser shots. Stick that camers underneath and see if you are on the bump stops see what if anything is binding. Go up very slow till a front or rear tire begins to lift. Hvae a buddie snap some pics of the under neath, again is it on the stops or are the springs just too stiff.

If trail rides are far and few between. Do it in the drive way with a good floor jack. Drive up on it and begin jacking. Watch for the previously mentioned points and snap some pictures. Study the pics sometimes it will jump out at you at a later date.

Good luck!!

CW

 

[Red97XJ]

the fronts really flex easy, the jeep stays fairly level and the axle really can twist.

Not so with the back, if the driver side tire goes up, so does the rear of the jeep. I put bumpstops on the rear for the high speed dunes and also extreme angle when I pinch the jeep in a crevice front to back or bottom of a rivine type situation, but the back does not flex NEARLY as easily as the front.

I know TJ run a Currie sway bar of some sort that is adjustable, anybody run anything like that on an XJ??

I have ALOT of wieght in back when I wheel already, plus the tire, rack, and hi-lift of rear of roof. My cargo box has got to wiegh close to 80lbs EMPTY! Here is some pics of it http://share.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=EeBMmLJy4atXRg


Thanks for your help,
Jason

 

[cwlongshot]

Excellent job on that box!! Not too shabby on the XJ either

But I still say you need to see what the problem is. Is the rear sway bar attached??? If so, maybe try it without. Are your bump stops too long???

Personally, I think its just stiff springs. But you wont know untill you check it out! If it is there are some other options.....
The floor jack trick is easy enough, try it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Red97XJ]

CW, sorry, I should have posted earlier, I have done the floorjack test, and the "stack up wood junk under automotive ramps to drive on".

I agree, seems that the rear springs are to stiff. I thought extra wieght would help it also, but I have plenty of wieght.... last time I went wheelin in the badlands (last weekend) I had the cargo box full of junk, a FULL tool box, a huge FULL cooler, spare tire, CO2 tank, 3kids in back seat, and adult passenger, and 3/4 tank of gas, oh yeah, and hi-lift on roof rack.... seems like lots of wieght!

My bumpstops are not even close to hitting, if fact they are high enough I don't think I can flex with a tow-motor and hit.... they are there for high speed dunes (which I only do once a yearish).

Any ideas? My leaves are only a year old, but they look fairly rusty after the one year.... I REALLY REALLY don't want to, but would it help to take apart and clean them? The round plastic disc are still there and look good.

Today did a few hours of wheelin at friends, stayed connected, felt VERY predictable and stable, however, got buried to the axles twice in creek/rivine due to the no flexing (no locker) and got the one wheel peel front and rear trying to come out on banks on some off camber stuff.

Thanks for any ideas or insights.
Jason

 

[outlander]

check the spring pack clamps?Maybe squirt pb blaster on the springs?
Wait a minuet did you say you had re shackles?When I installed mine they have a recess in them so they don't hit the rear cross member,so make sure you have them installed right.Go out and flex it and look under there and see if the shackles are hitting anything.

 

[Red97XJ]

I will check the shackles.... good idea.

PB is a great idea! Before I spray it, does anyone know if PB do anything bad to the plastic pads? what about WD-40?

Thanks,
Jason

 

[TrailHunter]

This is a classic unbalanced suspension problem. Every XJ has got it. Unless you convert the front to leaves or the rear to coils, it's going to happen. It's more stable on flexy spots with the front connected because it's limiting the softer end of your vehicle making the harded to flex leaf packs flex more. Someone suggested searching, but I really don't think there anything you can do except run maybe a currie antirock swaybar.

I've seen rigs with all different spring combinations and I don't think you'll find front springs as stiff as your leaves to even it out. If you did, the ride suffer big time on the road.

 

[Kejtar]

This is a classic unbalanced suspension problem. Every XJ has got it. Unless you convert the front to leaves or the rear to coils, it's going to happen.

What you smoking? I got front coils and rear springs and it doesn't get tippy unless I try and put it on the side.

Someone suggested searching, but I really don't think there anything you can do except run maybe a currie antirock swaybar.

And how is that going to solve his problem?

I've seen rigs with all different spring combinations and I don't think you'll find front springs as stiff as your leaves to even it out. If you did, the ride suffer big time on the road.

Well you need to search for the balance in stiffness and flex. You have to keep in mind that if you want it to perform on the trail you will have to sacrifice a bit of the comfort.

 

[TrailHunter]

Well I'm happy that you rear flexes equally as well as your front. It's been my experience that if you have a flexy front, the rear won't flex WELL untill the front is flexed out. I'd like to see a picture of your rig on level ground with one rear tire up on something. If what you're saying is true, then your rig should be completely level with the front disconnected.

In my experience, it's usually a situation where the front goes over an obstacle mostly level and when the rear reaches it, the body rolls because the front flexes thus making it feel tippy. An antirock swaybar would help becuase they don't limit your flex as much as a stock sway bar and that would help transfer the forces to the rear causing it to flex more.

You're right, it's about balance. It's not going to flex evenly unless the front and rear are similar. Personally I think making the front stiffer to match the rear is backwards because most lifted leaf packs are very stiff even after a break in period. I would prefer to make it softer in the rear. In most cases, most XJs are greatly imbalanced as are most vehicles that have leafs on one end and coils in the front. I don't have to smoke anything to see that clearly.

 

[Kejtar]

Well I'm happy that you rear flexes equally as well as your front. It's been my experience that if you have a flexy front, the rear won't flex WELL untill the front is flexed out. I'd like to see a picture of your rig on level ground with one rear tire up on something. If what you're saying is true, then your rig should be completely level with the front disconnected.

I never said my rig does that. All I said was that it flexes how it should without being tippy till I make it tippy.

In my experience, it's usually a situation where the front goes over an obstacle mostly level and when the rear reaches it, the body rolls because the front flexes thus making it feel tippy. An antirock swaybar would help becuase they don't limit your flex as much as a stock sway bar and that would help transfer the forces to the rear causing it to flex more.

Do you run antirock?

You're right, it's about balance. It's not going to flex evenly unless the front and rear are similar. Personally I think making the front stiffer to match the rear is backwards because most lifted leaf packs are very stiff even after a break in period. I would prefer to make it softer in the rear. In most cases, most XJs are greatly imbalanced as are most vehicles that have leafs on one end and coils in the front. I don't have to smoke anything to see that clearly.

Sorry, but until I see in an XJ on the trail a leaf pack in the front and coils in the back I'm going to call "snake oil" on that one I've seen quite a bit of talk about it but so far noone seems to have done it yet while on the other hand I've seen really nicely setup rigs with coils up front and leafs in the back that had no problems flexing any which way was needed.

 

[TrailHunter]

I guess we had a missunderstanding about what I call balanced. I define it to mean the front flexes just as easily as the rear. Why does reversing it prove or disprove it? I don't run an antirock because I plan to link the rear and I might need it then for different reasons like side hills.

I'm not saying your rig performs poorly as there ARE many many rigs on here that can hold their own and you understand how it works and you're happy with it. That doesn't leave it to say there's more perforance potential to be had. I don't want to limit my fronts capability by running a stiffer spring rate. I want to open up what my rear can do with a softer one.

 

[HAPYMUDY]

I may have missed something in this post ... but is it possible we are all missing the obvious?

I believe the driver feels tippy when on a side hill. I didn't see where he was considering the comparision of flex between the front and back on his Cherokee.

Simply put, if you disconnect you will feel tippier-than-connected on a side hill. My recommendation is, if you are disco-d avoid side hills more than if you are connected.

Disco'd IS and SHOULD FEEL more flexy. Again, sorry if I am not picking up on this as much I should.

 

[Kejtar]

I may have missed something in this post ... but is it possible we are all missing the obvious?

I believe the driver feels tippy when on a side hill. I didn't see where he was considering the comparision of flex between the front and back on his Cherokee.

Simply put, if you disconnect you will feel tippier-than-connected on a side hill. My recommendation is, if you are disco-d avoid side hills more than if you are connected.

Disco'd IS and SHOULD FEEL more flexy. Again, sorry if I am not picking up on this as much I should.

yup

 

[Red97XJ]

everyone has great points. Trailhunter has basically stated what my thoughts were, he just put in to words better than I can.

I love the front flex, just want to improve the back flex.

I agree with the side hill stay connected, rock crawling disco, but what a pain that would be... that would be more like sissy wheeling in my eyes.

Any how, I don't want this post to come off as I can't deal with the "imbalance" or any of that trash, I love the way my XJ does! It suprises me about every trip out.... just trying to make somethig that is good even better into GREAT.

Later,
Jason