Dashboard disassembly

[casm]

A small project has become annoyingly complex and has me needing to possibly disassemble the dash in my '01 Sport.

Basically, I want to screw a GPS mounting kit down to the (mostly) flat plastic panel that runs along the base of the windscreen in the area between the A-pillar and instrument cluster housing. My suspicion is that screws alone aren't going to be enough to keep it anchored once the GPS unit is in it, so I'm probably going to have to back them with nuts and washers on the underside of the panel.

The Haynes manual is vague (in true Haynes fashion) about how to remove this panel. I think they're referring to it as the 'instrument panel top cover' on page 11-10, but can't be sure.

So, my questions for anyone who's ripped this part of the Jeep apart before: a) is the Haynes manual correct; b) is there any way to remove this panel without having to go through the disassembly nightmare they suggest; c) before I tear apart the dash, is there enough room under that panel (say, about 5/16" to 1/2") in the location I want to use to sink the screws, fit nuts and washers, and have it all go back together again?

 

[scoobyxj]

hey casm if you are going where i think you are going it should work and be not to hard to get there first remove the bezel around the radio/hvac controls there are four screws by the radio that holds the piece of trim that goes over the guages there are also two or three screws on the bottom of the trim piece you have to the trim pice under the steeringwheel to get to those there also might be one under the trim on the side below the vent. now you should be able to remove the cover, the light switch is a pain to get over but you may not have to do that for what you are doing the dash pad is just cliped down on that side so you should be able to pry it up enough to gain access to the area in question hope this helps there are mabey better directions on 4x4mods.com in the xj guage replacement section htat is where i got this from when i did my colored guages

 

[Gridikal]

Been there done that. Took out my whole interior when I re-did my audio sytem for painting, fiberglass, etc. DO NOT just drill screws into that area, there are some wiring harnesses for the passenger side air bag etc etc etc. Taking the dash completly off is not fun. Ive done it many times so I'd say I'm pretty good at it. Bad news is that Haynes is mosty right. First I'd say look for some where else to mount it. Then if you really really want it there PM me and I'll get back to you with detailed instructions.

 

[casm]

the dash pad is just cliped down on that side so you should be able to pry it up enough to gain access to the area in question hope this helps

Hm. Thanks for the info - it seems fairly close to what the Haynes manual is suggesting, but a bit clearer. If possible, I'd like to remove that entire trim piece to do the drilling and mounting rather than trying to prise it up and work on it in situ; it just seems like it would be easier to do it that way.

FWIW, the condensed version of the procedure the Haynes manual is suggesting is the following:

- Remove kick panel under steerng column.
- Remove bezel around radio/hvac controls.
- Remove headlight switch.
- Remove steering column shroud.
- Remove instrument cluster bezel.
- Remove (finally!) dash pad.

DO NOT just drill screws into that area, there are some wiring harnesses for the passenger side air bag etc etc etc.

OK, I just want to be sure we're talking about the same area: the space between the A-pillar and instrument cluster on the driver's side. Not saying you're wrong, I'm just a little thrown by the passenger side airbag wiring being on that side of the dash (which is totally possible, it's just making me think we might be talking about two different places).

This is a large part of the reason I'd prefer to do this with the panel out - drilling blindly into stuff like this is something I would like to avoid.

Taking the dash completly off is not fun. Ive done it many times so I'd say I'm pretty good at it. Bad news is that Haynes is mosty right.

That's what I was afraid of. Oh well.

First I'd say look for some where else to mount it.

This was about the best place I could come up with using convenience, ease of installation (so much for that idea), and safety as my main criteria. I thought about attaching it directly to the A-pillar panel, but it has too much curvature to make that a realistic proposition. And I didn't want to use the top of the instrument cluster since that would put it too much into my field of vision.

I'll look at it some more tonight after I get home from work, but I suspect that I'm probably going to have to bite the bullet and tear the dash apart if I want to do this right. Don't be surprised if I take you up on that PM

 

[RichP]

I have no idea how big this thing is that you want to put in but check out quadratec, they have a blister for mounting 3 normal gauges that fits into the coin holder on the TJ's center dash top. I have used similar blisters for mounting switches in vans back years go and they work well.

 

[martin]

I have a Garmin e-trex Legend and purchased the dash top stand for it. It a heavy weighted bean bag that holds the GPS in place. It does not move even when hitting pot holes on the trail.

Also a GPS needs to be able to to "see" the sky so it can figure out it's location. You need 4 satelites to establish locaiton and elevation. With 3 birds you can only estrablish position. My mounting the unit on the dashboard you are limiting the number of birds it can see. Does this GPS you plant to mount have an external antenna? If it does not have an external antenna them mounting where you suggest may lead to a disappointment.

Even with my e-Trek on the mount I have diminished results in the woods. I purchased an external antenna which I mount to the roof of my XJ. This gave me better results in the woods, but still not 6-7 ft accuracy I get along the interstates of southern IL.

What GPS are you installing?

 

[casm]

I have a Garmin e-trex Legend and purchased the dash top stand for it. It a heavy weighted bean bag that holds the GPS in place. It does not move even when hitting pot holes on the trail.

I saw that, but wanted something more permanent. I have the Legend as well, FWIW, and am using the marine mount.

My mounting the unit on the dashboard you are limiting the number of birds it can see.

True, but I've tried it in the position I'm intending to mount it in and the results have been pretty good so far. Apart from in deep canyons or heavy tree cover it's managed to keep a fairly good lock on (usually) three satellites at good signal strength and another one or two at a lesser level.

Even with my e-Trek on the mount I have diminished results in the woods. I purchased an external antenna which I mount to the roof of my XJ. This gave me better results in the woods, but still not 6-7 ft accuracy I get along the interstates of southern IL.

Out of curiosity, which antenna did you get?

 

[martin]

I purchased this antenna listed on the GPS city site: http://www.gpscity.com/gps/brados/41145.3.7388588951716060958/vortechant.html I think I ordered it from Dicks Sporting goods.

Since there is no external antenna port on the e-Trek series. This is a powered antenna which collects information and then rebroadcasts the information. I strung the antenna outside the vehicle and placed it at the centerline just above the dome light. I only run with antenna when I want good information in the woods. It does improve your GPS accuracy since there are no vehicle obstructions.

I do not think this is a perminate solution. I also take the unit with me into the woods and placed the antenna on the bench marks at the corners of my 80 acres. They are deep in the woods and I still wat not getting accuracy less than 30 ft but I was not blocking the signal since I was 10+ feet away.

Here the mount I use, here the car mount: http://shop.garmin.com/accessory.jsp?sku=010-10274-00

Here is the no skid mount which the car mount attaches to: http://shop.garmin.com/accessory.jsp?sku=010-10306-00

This allows me to move the GPS between the vehicles. If you need a power cord for your e-Trex I found mine on Ebay. It was 12 or 13 bucks vs the $40 for the garmin cord.

 

[Drake00XJ]

Been there done that. Took out my whole interior when I re-did my audio sytem for painting, fiberglass, etc. QUOTE]

Do you have any pics of your mods? I was planning on painting some of my interior to match the exterior. How much did the painting cost?

 

[Gridikal]

I'll get pics up as soon as possible. lol, drivers side- I was way off. sorry bout that. :roflmao:

 

[casm]

I purchased this antenna listed on the GPS city site: http://www.gpscity.com/gps/brados/41145.3.7388588951716060958/vortechant.html I think I ordered it from Dicks Sporting goods.

Cool, I'll probably end up going with something similar eventually. For right now I can live without sub-10-foot accuracy - my main thing for right now is that I have somewhere to put the device where it's neither loose in the cabin nor a visual obstruction.

Here the mount I use, here the car mount: http://shop.garmin.com/accessory.jsp?sku=010-10274-00

Yep, I considered this initially but realised I'd rather be able to just have the mount permanently in the vehicle and remove the GPS itself as necessary. Knowing how I am, the two will get separated and I won't be able to find one or the other when I'm about to go somewhere and actually need it. This way there's only one item to lose

This allows me to move the GPS between the vehicles.

FWIW, you can do the same thing with the marine and auto mounts - Garmin sells extra bases for them, so you just install a base in each vehicle and move the bracket the GPS snaps into between them as necessary.

If you need a power cord for your e-Trex I found mine on Ebay. It was 12 or 13 bucks vs the $40 for the garmin cord.

What I'm most likely to go with is the lighter adapter / serial cable combo unit, but wire it in permanently - I'm intending to make this phase one of a wider project to have on-board voice navigation and wireless data capabilities. Right now the navigation part is going to be run off of an old P133 laptop using GPSS, but the future plans are to go to a mini-ITX format PC with GPSDrive and MP3 playback capability (amongst other things).

To swing this back onto track for a moment (since we're veering into modified tech territory right now): what's the easiest way to remove the headlamp switch from the kick panel?

 

[red92xj]

If you are mounting the gps on top of the dash you will not need the external antenna. The unit will have plenty of sky to operate. The antenna will not make it more accurate.

A great source for cables for garmin is http://www.pfranc.com. It's kind of a strange place, but they have what you need for less money than OEM.

Also, think twice about a permanent mount. You will really limit the versatiliy of the etrex if you can't take it with you when you leave the rig out on the trail.

 

[casm]

A great source for cables for garmin is http://www.pfranc.com. It's kind of a strange place, but they have what you need for less money than OEM.

Cool, thanks. I'm a big fan of Froogle right now because of their comparative abilities, but I like pfranc for one thing - they're using the old Atari 9-pin molex connectors for their cables

Also, think twice about a permanent mount. You will really limit the versatiliy of the etrex if you can't take it with you when you leave the rig out on the trail.

Actually, the only part of it that's permanent is the base. You can separate the Z-armature from the base itself, and the GPS from the Z-armature. It's actually quite modular. Looking at how poor the photos I've found online are, I'll take a few and post them; it should help to clarify what I'm doing.

 

[casm]

OK, the marine mount is in. Photos (800x600 JPEGs) can be found here.

Taking the dash apart wasn't as horrible as I expected it to be, but then I wasn't completely knocking the thing down - just removing the dash top in order to be able to drill the three holes into it that the mount requires. From what I saw, actually disassembling and removing the dash assembly itself looks really unpleasant. FWIW, the Haynes manual's procedure did turn out to be pretty much spot-on, so thanks to everyone for their input on it.

What isn't clear from the photos is that the base of the mount uses three 4.5mm holes arranged as points of an equilateral triangle. I put two of them parallel to the base of the windscreen, with the remaining one in front of the driver. This one was actually over the curvature of the dash, so to shim it out I used a beveled 17/32" faucet washer.

To actually hold it in place, I used 8/32" flathead machine screws (1/2" at the windscreen, 3/4" at the driver) with nylon-insert locknuts and washers to clamp it down to the underside of the dash top. The plastic in the dash top is too thin to just sink screws into once the weight of the GPS is added to the mount, hence tearing it apart to brace it on the underside.

Time to do this wasn't too bad - about 90 minutes. 30 of that was spent running back to the hardware store for the right length of machine screws after the 1" ones I had initially purchased turned out to be too long to clear the defroster duct, thus keeping the dash top from snapping back into place. Oh, and I screwed up one of the clips holding the bezel around the radio and heater controls in place while putting it back in. Swearing fixed it.

So far I'm happy with it and have seen accuracy between 8 and 90 feet, with it usually hovering around the 20' mark seen in the fifth photo - for my purposes, this is fine. The only downsides to this arrangement: I set the base a bit too close to the instrument cluster to avoid blocking the GPS' view of the sky with the A-pillar; consequently, it doesn't have much of a range of motion for swivelling around the base. Also, the bracket jiggles the GPS unit a lot under motion (not surprisingly, every little vibration goes right through it) which can make it entertaining to read. But it's both visible and usable from a normal seating position which is what I was going for in the first place. Also, I think that once I get around to plumbing in the power and serial port adapter later on, the cable weight of the power adapter will help to nullify this a bit. I may also reopen the dash and add some o-rings around the screw mounts to help take up some of the shock.

Oh, and on a quasi-related note: for anyone pondering doing this, Garmin lists the marine mount as "[accepting] optional external power adapter for quick connection to a DC power supply". This doesn't mean that there's a power supply included or even that it has the power connector integrated into the mount, just that there's room to plug it in to the GPS' power & data port once the GPS is in the mount. Not exactly the exciting thing they make it sound like, but still worhtwhile overall in my book.

 

[RichP]

Kinda late but you might want to look at these, I have my cellphone mounted on one to the left of the radio, install time 2min....

 

[casm]

Kinda late but you might want to look at these, I have my cellphone mounted on one to the left of the radio, install time 2min....

I'm guessing it's one of the adhesive universal clamps (the link didn't make it in). Saw them, but wanted something permanently-anchored. Also avoided the vent-mount types because of that and the need for unrestricted airflow in the 105degF summer.

 

[RichP]

I'm guessing it's one of the adhesive universal clamps (the link didn't make it in). Saw them, but wanted something permanently-anchored. Also avoided the vent-mount types because of that and the need for unrestricted airflow in the 105degF summer.

Whoops, heres the link and not it is not adhesive, it bolts behind the center bezel.

http://www.pro-fit-intl.com/vsm.html