D44 Newbie ?

[Goatman]

What years can you find the 970/760 joints, and do they swap right out or do you need to change anything else ?

They come out of '97 and later XJ's, ZJ's, and TJ's, or some earlier model years if the vehicle is equiped with ABS. If you have an older XJ that has the disconnect, you need to use axles from a '05 YJ that has ABS. The easiest thing is to call most drivetrain vendors and buy new shafts with the larger 760x axle u-joints.....they'll know what you're talking about. This is a simple and relatively inexpensive way to upgrade a D30.

what spline does the wagoneer dana44 have? spacifically driver side drop non vacum disco, 80+ (not83+84)

is it the same as the d44 cherokee rear? does matter if the front and rear have different splines?

figured id throw all my noobish questions in this thread.

All D44's have 30 spline axles, both front and rear D44's. Front D44's have slightly smaller outer, or stub axles, but they are still bigger than D30 axles. The difference between a Waggy front axle and an XJ rear axle is the bolt pattern. The Waggy will be 6 lug, and the XJ will be 5 lug. The axles in the rear XJ D44 would need to be changed, and new axles with the 6 lug bolt pattern installed so the wheels will match. If you used Waggy D44's both front and rear you would have the same 6 lug bolt pattern.

 

[brandon11130]

does anyone know the width of a wagoneer axle? non wide track.

 

[devildog0]

if they have different splines it will casuse a lot of binding similar to if the gears are different.

Bottomline, dont do it.

So by that logic Jeep has been selling bad XJs for years 27 spline D30 and 29 spline 8.25. What about all the guys that run D60s and D44s or D44s and D 30s?


I can see where you get the idea but the diffrence would be so minimal that normal tire wear and driving habits far exceed this diffrence.

 

[brandon11130]

So by that logic Jeep has been selling bad XJs for years 27 spline D30 and 29 spline 8.25. What about all the guys that run D60s and D44s or D44s and D 30s?


I can see where you get the idea but the diffrence would be so minimal that normal tire wear and driving habits far exceed this diffrence.

he was joking,

 

[vetteboy]

Front D44's have slightly smaller outer, or stub axles, but they are still bigger than D30 axles.

This is true...but...everytime I've seen a D30 break, it's been the u-joint, and everytime I've seen a D44 break, it's been the shaft itself (at the spline neckdown) or the yoke ears.

Given that they both run the same u-joint (at least some D30s), that sort of makes me have a little more faith in the D30 shafts. As sacreligious as that may sound, maybe the D30 shafts just have better transitions to get rid of stress risers or something.

The mythical 'XJ front 44' DOES exist, but it was in overseas models only, and I've never actually seen one. I think though it's like the Rubi front 44, with a 44 center section and the regular D30 outers/unit hubs/balljoints etc.

 

[xray]

lets not forget It is also a low pinion.

 

[Ramsey]

I can see where you get the idea but the diffrence would be so minimal that normal tire wear and driving habits far exceed this diffrence.

just how do you see this?

i've broken the ears off of a 30 shaft and left the joint intact and vice versa.


has there ever been any confirmation of a front xj 44? never seen one and until i do i'll call spobi.

 

[88rockxj]

call currie

yup, if ya dont already know the answer to this question then you shouldnt be jumpin into somthin like this. besides swappin in a d44 from another xj almost every other axle swap is gonna involve welding etc

if ya got the money pick up the phone lol

 

[88rockxj]

just how do you see this?

i've broken the ears off of a 30 shaft and left the joint intact and vice versa.


has there ever been any confirmation of a front xj 44? never seen one and until i do i'll call spobi.

suposably some exported xj's had d44 fronts, dont think i know where an actual evidence is besides where i read it, which i dont remember but ill try to find it.

 

[DaffyXJ]

This is true...but...everytime I've seen a D30 break, it's been the u-joint, and everytime I've seen a D44 break, it's been the shaft itself (at the spline neckdown) or the yoke ears.

Given that they both run the same u-joint (at least some D30s), that sort of makes me have a little more faith in the D30 shafts. As sacreligious as that may sound, maybe the D30 shafts just have better transitions to get rid of stress risers or something.

The mythical 'XJ front 44' DOES exist, but it was in overseas models only, and I've never actually seen one. I think though it's like the Rubi front 44, with a 44 center section and the regular D30 outers/unit hubs/balljoints etc.

Never broke my D-30 with stock shafts and 297s, of course I was running limited slip. Now my front D-44, I've gone through 5 ujoint and 3 short shafts since May this year. Of couse it's locked using moly inners and spicer outers.

When it's time is up, it will break.

 

[devildog0]

has there ever been any confirmation of a front xj 44? never seen one and until i do i'll call spobi.

We have a guy from Venaseula (SP? its in South America) on another board I frequent that confirmed that there were infact D44 fronts on some of the XJs in that area. I'm not sure if the D44 was an option or a standard option he didn't go that deep into it.

 

[Kejtar]

has there ever been any confirmation of a front xj 44? never seen one and until i do i'll call spobi.

South America models for some reason got the front D44 for a few years in the middle of a production run. IIRC someone even came across someone who had a stash of the front D44's that never made it down south but they were not for sale and got shipped someplace bfe.
OH and from what I remember I think it was a LP D44 though.

 

[PapaPump]

TJ rubicons have the front 44 also, for the newbies. they use dana 30 tubes and outers though and are big $$$. still, in the future they may be a better deal than a currie or other custom.

after reading some of these posts though i do have a question of my own, though. somebody mentioned that 95 and newer came with the 297s...if i wanted to be cheap, i should be able to get a junkyard d30 from a 95 or 96 4cyl then, and get high pinion, 297s and 4.10s, correct? or, if that was only the abs models...then that might be a rare option on 4cyl models.

 

[Ramsey]

97 and newer have them, and i think 91 and up abs models. its pointless to use a rubicon front 44 unless you can get it the same price as any other 30.

 

[Kejtar]

TJ rubicons have the front 44 also, for the newbies. they use dana 30 tubes and outers though and are big $$$. still, in the future they may be a better deal than a currie or other custom.

after reading some of these posts though i do have a question of my own, though. somebody mentioned that 95 and newer came with the 297s...if i wanted to be cheap, i should be able to get a junkyard d30 from a 95 or 96 4cyl then, and get high pinion, 297s and 4.10s, correct? or, if that was only the abs models...then that might be a rare option on 4cyl models.

Go to a junkyard and assemble your own deal I just got 4.11 geared axles last week and if I had more time I'd go to another jeep, get the newer knuckles and axle shafts... unfortunately I was short on time and they were closing

 

[Goatman]

This is true...but...everytime I've seen a D30 break, it's been the u-joint, and everytime I've seen a D44 break, it's been the shaft itself (at the spline neckdown) or the yoke ears.

Given that they both run the same u-joint (at least some D30s), that sort of makes me have a little more faith in the D30 shafts. As sacreligious as that may sound, maybe the D30 shafts just have better transitions to get rid of stress risers or something.

You just haven't seen enough of them break. I've seen D30 u-joints break, stub shafts break, and quite a few inner shafts break. When using a 297x/760x axle u-joint, the joint is about as strong as the ears of the Spicer axle shaft yoke, and if the cups are secured with full circle clips (snap rings) or are tack welded to the ears, the u-joints are usually stronger than the Spicer yoke ears (D30 or D44). So, you will many times see the yoke ears sheared when the axle breaks.

A D30 with the larger axle u-joints can take quite a bit of abuse, but it's still not as strong as a D44 in every area other than the axle u-joints (if the D30 has the large joints). However, since the axle u-joint and axle yoke ears are the weakest link in both, I'd rather have a D30 with chomo shafts and snap ringed u-joints than a D44 with stock Spicer shafts. Since it's easy to buy D30 shafts with the larger u-joints (many drivetrain stores sell them new), and it's not hard to put snap rings on them, you could easily break as many axle joints with either a D44 or a D30 if running Spicer shafts. This is why most people swapping a D44 consider the expense of chromo shafts to just be a part of the swap. If you're willing to spend the money on chromo shafts for the D30, it can be a good way to go over the expense of a D44.....depending on how hard you use it, what terrain, and what tire size. The D30 housing is still subject to bending, and the ring and pinion prone to spitting teeth, if used with tires larger than 33's, however they can still hold up reasonably well to 35's with an easy driving style and chromo axles.

after reading some of these posts though i do have a question of my own, though. somebody mentioned that 95 and newer came with the 297s...if i wanted to be cheap, i should be able to get a junkyard d30 from a 95 or 96 4cyl then, and get high pinion, 297s and 4.10s, correct? or, if that was only the abs models...then that might be a rare option on 4cyl models.

Some one knows this for sure better than I do, I can't keep track of all the year differences, but I believe they all started coming with the larger u-joints in '97, and before that it was only if they had ABS. If you're poking through the wrecking yards, the 260x joint cups are 1 1/16" diameter and the 297x cups are 1 3/16" diameter. It's also easy, and relatively inexpensive, to just buy new Spicer shafts with the larger u-joints.

 

[PapaPump]

thanks that's good advice for my junkyard misadventures...i am looking at 4cyl axles with the better shafts (if 4cyls ever came with ABS) in order to get 4.10s, so it is a matter of not wanting to pay to regear, considering how cheap D30s can be, and getting the better parts, if possible.

ideally i would be doing 4.10s, ox, alloys, 297s, etc all at once. as a tightwad though, i am hoping to get 4.10s, 297s and HP for $150 or less, if that model exists in the junkyard

 

[XJ_ranger]

has there ever been any confirmation of a front xj 44? never seen one and until i do i'll call spobi.

seen one

Currie imported it from south america, it was the first one they imported though and has the 260 series u-joint - currie later upgraded the shafts and joints to 297's as they had spec'd.

the guy that i bought my replacement t-case from in Omaha has it in front of his TJ with the AtlasII.

he decided to call currie and ask them for a custom front end, and they had told him about this deal, and significantly lowered the price from a custom unit and sold him this axle. He wanted the larger ring gear and general beef after blowing an ARB, stub, inner, R+P all at the same time in his d30...

it arived at his door with the 260's and he called and complained - they sent him the better shafts and stuff.

It is not a true 44 in that the knuckles and stub shafts are the d30 style, but it serves his purpose.

dont know if currie still bothers to import the axles or not... but they do exist and i have seen it!

oh - and yes it is an LP

 

[BrettM]

You just haven't seen enough of them break. I've seen D30 u-joints break, stub shafts break, and quite a few inner shafts break. When using a 297x/760x axle u-joint, the joint is about as strong as the ears of the Spicer axle shaft yoke, and if the cups are secured with full circle clips (snap rings) or are tack welded to the ears, the u-joints are usually stronger than the Spicer yoke ears (D30 or D44). So, you will many times see the yoke ears sheared when the axle breaks.

I concur. I've broke 4 or 5 Spicer shaft/joint combos in the past 2 years.

One was an old 297 that the joint actually broke and the shafts were reuseable. All the others were 760 joints and everytime the yoke ears tore leaving the rest of the shafts and joint in tact.

Interestingly, I've never broke a shaft that has had less than 2 or 3 runs on it (including not breaking any at JV!) and everytime I've done an "autopsy" on a broken one the needle bearings have been already crushed. I suspect that the weak point of a Spicer shaft and 760 joint is actually the needle bearings; once they crush they allow the trunions of the joint to angle inside the caps, thus spreading the yokes and :explosion: Hopefully soon I can get some bushings made for the 760 joints and I can find out what the next weak link is.