Chrysler should be shot!

[old_man]

I have a 2004 Chrysler Pacifica. While I like the design of the interior and exterior and how it runs, it is a royal PIA to work on. After a long list of things I have had to repair, the heater/AC fan crapped out. Whoever designed the thing should be shot, slowly and painfully.

They have several small 8mm screws that are right up agains the firewall to the point that it takes a thin wall socket, but because of the padding you can't get a straight shot at it. I am going to have to go get a swivel for my 1/4" drive and fit several extensions together. All of this has to be done while standing on your head to try and get under the dash.

I am seriously thinking of pulling out the passenger seat to be able to get under there easier. I have a disability when doing this type of thing. I have broken my neck twice and have 4 vertebrae fused, so my neck doesn't flex all that well.

The task consists fo about 10 screws but takes about 2 hours acording to Chrysler.

 

[xjtrailrider]

Everyone I know that owns a Pacifica has had issues with them, one trip to the local Chrysler dealer service department will verify it.

 

[DrMoab]

The only modern car company that still makes vehicles easy to work on is Subaru. Your issue shouldn't be with Chrysler, they are no different than any other company out there.

 

[old_man]

Let's see...I've replaced both motor mounts, torque strut, ball joints, tie rod ends, two serpentine belt idlers, two collapsed lifters, busted battery ground cable, McPherson struts. The flat rate to change the spark plugs is something like 2.5 hours.

The damn thing has a oil leak. It appears the adapter between the engine and the oil cooler/filter has a crack in it. Real easy to get to.....not.

 

[Jeepman401]

just be happy you can do the job without removing the whole dash

 

[old_man]

Actually I think it might be easier.

 

[Finaltheorem47]

I hate Chrysler... I've owned a few in the past and they don't seem to try to learn from their engineering mistakes.

 

[NW-ZJ-SCOTT]

I hate Chrysler... I've owned a few in the past and they don't seem to try to learn from their engineering mistakes.

x2

Shall we mention Transmissions?:bunny:

 

[Finaltheorem47]

x2

Shall we mention Transmissions?:bunny:

Ahhhh two months ago I finished rebuilding my 42RE ('99 3.9L V6 Dodge Dakota) ... It died because of heat... why? Because even on the 3.9L engine without an iron foot, it's transmission cooler is still not efficient enough to cool it.

 

[tbburg]

I see this a lot. Made the mistake of learning a few things about production engineering.(There's that Industrial tec. schooling kicking in) When I see a problem like this, I start looking for the cause. The cause usually turns out to be modern manufacturing.

Look at an assembly that you can't take apart inside the car, it's usually because it was engineered to be assembled easily and quickly outside the car, then installed as part of a major assembly, again, easily and quickly into/onto the chassis. The thing it isn't designed for is ease of service. Wonder why the oil filter is tucked up along side the block, instead of being pointed straight down? It's placed to avoid snagging anything while being installed, not to be easy to replace once in the car.

'Buddy of mine has a newer crossover style SUV, I forget what brand. The anti-sway bar bushings are going out on it. You can't replace the bushings without removing the exhaust and dropping the whole front sub-frame out from under the car, at least 4".
I looked the car over. I think you could probably put that sway bar on in under 30 seconds with an air/battery driver, if you installed it before the sub-frame was put in the car.

Modern technology. Learn to love it, or go on a shooting spree.

 

[RichP]

I hate Chrysler... I've owned a few in the past and they don't seem to try to learn from their engineering mistakes.

When they find any engineering mistakes they just hire more accountants.

 

[ehall]

I see this a lot. Made the mistake of learning a few things about production engineering.(There's that Industrial tec. schooling kicking in) When I see a problem like this, I start looking for the cause. The cause usually turns out to be modern manufacturing.

That's been true for a long time. Back in the early 80s, my dad worked at ALCOA alongside some guy from Chrysler, who said they made the cars easy to build not easy to service. With the safety and mileage regs they are packing a bunch more shit into smaller spaces.

As for the OP comments about small nuts on the firewall, my 85 Cadillac has a wiper motor pre-assembly that is bolted against the engine side of the firewall from the dashboard side. I *might* be able to remove it if I take out the brake booster and cut the hardware with a Dremel. Weep about that one.

 

[GSequoia]

Wonder why the oil filter is tucked up along side the block, instead of being pointed straight down?

Hard to access oil filters are a pet peeve of mine.

 

[tbburg]

Hard to access oil filters are a pet peeve of mine.

Go buy a Nissan Titan. It has the oil filter pointed down at a 45deg. angle and forward off the front of the motor. easy as hell to get to. They even welded a little catch tray/funnel to let the oil drip out and clear the cross member. Great design!

Of course, the made up for it by putting a standard duty Dana-44 under the back of a 5500lb truck, but hey,...

 

[GSequoia]

Go buy a Nissan Titan. It has the oil filter pointed down at a 45deg. angle and forward off the front of the motor. easy as hell to get to. They even welded a little catch tray/funnel to let the oil drip out and clear the cross member. Great design!

Of course, the made up for it by putting a standard duty Dana-44 under the back of a 5500lb truck, but hey,...

Ha.

Oil filter in the wife's Mini is in the back of the engine against the firewall. It's a cartridge style design with a cap that's a bitch to get to, you need a low-profile 36mm socket to get to it (at first I thought "36mm? Score!). Then you find out that you can only pull that cap out by saying a few magic words and making your hand hurt a little.

 

[kastein]

Hard to access oil filters are a pet peeve of mine.

look no further than the Ford Windstar/Aerostar vans.

xxxxing oil filter (VO-23 size, not sure about brands other than Valvoline) is on the back passenger side of the motor, pointing back and down at an angle, and the only way to get to it is to snake your arm between the catalytic converter and the frame rail.

I put a half inch by 2 inch burn on my wrist removing one of those filters in summer '03 at the quicklube I worked at. It is STILL plainly visible.

Go buy a Nissan Titan. It has the oil filter pointed down at a 45deg. angle and forward off the front of the motor. easy as hell to get to. They even welded a little catch tray/funnel to let the oil drip out and clear the cross member. Great design!

Of course, the made up for it by putting a standard duty Dana-44 under the back of a 5500lb truck, but hey,...

Favorite vehicles/motors ever for oil filter accessibility:

* Jeep 4.0L with VO-33 (old RENIX style) or VO-45 filter
* Most Dodge vehicles. VO-45 filter, usually easily accessible pointing straight down on the front or side of the motor.
* Toyota Corolla with the 4cyl. VO-25 filter? Memory's kinda fuzzy on those. Right on the front of the motor and pointing up at you, easily accessible.
* Honda with the 4cyl (up to the mid/late 90s anyways.) VO-39 filter on the back of the motor, a few inches from the exhaust, at a decent angle, with plenty of space to work.

Volvos had the filter in a nice spot but at a carpal tunnel syndrome inducing angle, and I'd rather burn a lexus to the ground than try and get the damn filter out.

 

[mg614]

I've got a good one...
Anyone ever change the starter on a '98 VW Jetta?
Two bolts to remove the starter which is located right on the front of the engine. Easy enough to get to. Problem is that those two bolts also double as 2 out of 3 of the front engine mount bolts. Pull them out and the engine moves. Then you have to use a bottle jack to realign everything. Very efficient...
Best day ever was when that car got totalled and a flatbed came to take it away.

 

[Rob Mayercik]

In my 84 Omni, the oil filter is right on the front of the block (transverse 2.2L I-4), but it's awfully close to the alternator. Then again, the 2.2L Chrysler engine stuffed into that L-body engine compartment makes for a lot of tight fits.

First oil change I did on it, my dad put the filter wrench on it (a new band-style one we'd bought just for that car, since his wrench didn't fit it) while I was below fishing the drain plug out of the drip pan.

When he broke the filter loose, he over-rotated the wrench right into the alternator terminals - instant short, superheated the tool. We were always very careful about the filter wrench on that thing after that...

 

[bjoehandley]

I had both a Lebaron GTS and Shadow ES with with the turbo versions of that motor. The oil filer was much easier to get at on those, however trying to put the wastegate valve hooked back up like it's supposed to be on those stupid little Mistubishi turbos the '88 and newer T1's had was a pain in the Shadow, I still have a small scar on my right hand from jabbing it into a sheetmetal screw on the firewall.

 

[5-90]

Timing belt on any FWD with a transverse engine.

Who in the HELL decided that running an engine mount through the timing belt loop was a good idea?

The principal reason that we bought the 2005 Verona was because it has a single roller timing chain setup, and doesn't use a belt for timing (NO production engine should use a belt for timing! Race engines aren't so bad, but the longest those belts will be run is one full season. Max.)

Joe - take the seat out. I'm not dealing with cervical fusions (yet - that's probably in future after the C2 & C5 Fx...) but I'm a big guy anyhow, so I pull the seats as a matter of course when I have to get under the IP. Beats standing on my head in the footwell with my feet hanging over the top of the seat.

I'd made some falrly flat wooden cones with a 7/16" hole in them so I can drop them over seat studs, if the seats are mounted with studs instead of screws. Saves a lot of wear and tear on my kidneys...

Don't blame engineering, tho - if Engineering had its way, you could do a full service on the engine in ten minutes with zero tools. It's Accounting, Design, Marketing, and Legal that f*** it all up for us rather badly.

Accounting - keep track of my beans, don't tell me what to do with them.
Legal - if it's a liability issue, tell us so we can fix it. Else, get the Hell out of Engineering!
Marketing - You sell it. We design it. Note the division of labour.
Design - Form follows function. Now, go sit in the corner and repeat that to yourself until you fully internalise that little fact of life.

Mother-in-law had a 1996 (?) Sable with the V6. The oil filter was right overtop the front K-frame - couldn't see it, could barely get a cap wrench on it (and it better have a drive hex!) and you had to pull the wrench back off once the filter was loose so you could actually physically remove the filter when you were done.

There was a solid-state switching pack underhood, replaced all of the relays. It was about the size of two packs of smokes lying side-by-side, and had something like a 60-way harmonica plug going into it. It was mounted directly atop the radiator. The basic rule for solid-state electronics? Heat is the enemy!

I probably changed that thing every six months (since she'd sit and idle so much, after I'd tell her not to,) and at $120 a pop, it got tedious. For her. (At an hour to get all the screws and change it, I was getting tired of it myself and was about to tell her to take it in when it wanted changing, and pay the shop rate for it as well. It usually took me about an hour, I found out that "book rate" was three.)

She wanted that damned car. I wanted to send it to the crusher. I'm tired of Fords...