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Cherokee XJ RENIX 1990 - low power, bad mpg, problem with ignition and timing

Another symptom that now i'm sure is not caused by rotor cap, plugs or wires... when Jeep is really hot (when i drive it for like 15-20km) it has missfire at iddle. But only at iddle, if i open throttle just a little, it runs ok.


I've also checked jeep on a snap-on MT2500. I did not have much time, but everything seems to work fine. Only break sensor is damaged and it showed on transmission that my brake pedal was pressed all the time. I've unplugged it and jumped to set it as 'release'. but there is no change in transmission or jeep itself.
TPS shows steps and voltage, all sensors are working, engine temp shows correct temperature, air intake shows correct temperature, map sensor is also correct (not sure about voltage, but ground is 0-1 ohms and voltage was correct on ignition on.
o2 senor is changing pretty quickly on rich/lean.


I've also drove other renix jeep on 29 inch tires and it was just only slightly faster than mine.


BTW, my egr is NOT working. With plugged EGR and correct TPS adjustment when i stopped at crossing/intersection or lights engine was dying when i tried to drive.
 
Another symptom that now i'm sure is not caused by rotor cap, plugs or wires... when Jeep is really hot (when i drive it for like 15-20km) it has missfire at iddle. But only at iddle, if i open throttle just a little, it runs ok.


I've also checked jeep on a snap-on MT2500. I did not have much time, but everything seems to work fine. Only break sensor is damaged and it showed on transmission that my brake pedal was pressed all the time. I've unplugged it and jumped to set it as 'release'. but there is no change in transmission or jeep itself.
TPS shows steps and voltage, all sensors are working, engine temp shows correct temperature, air intake shows correct temperature, map sensor is also correct (not sure about voltage, but ground is 0-1 ohms and voltage was correct on ignition on.
o2 senor is changing pretty quickly on rich/lean.


I've also drove other renix jeep on 29 inch tires and it was just only slightly faster than mine.


BTW, my egr is NOT working. With plugged EGR and correct TPS adjustment when i stopped at crossing/intersection or lights engine was dying when i tried to drive.

Tip5 is very important to complete.

The MT2500 has no idea if the info it is receiving is correct, which could be the case if the ground for the most critical sensors is bad.

Make sure your intake manifold bolts are snug also.
 
I just don't have much time to work on my Jeep.
I'm doing everything but slowly :(
I will finish the TIP-5.


"The MT2500 has no idea if the info it is receiving is correct, which could be the case if the ground for the most critical sensors is bad."


Not sure if i understand good, but it gets the same info that ECU is reading.
So if ground on sensor is bad, also it will show wrong voltage/values on MT2500?


I've recently watched some youtube video and had same idea - to check intake bolts. I'll also try to do vacuum test somehow, but i checked the vacuum and it seems fine. Just not sure how the brake pump should work. Should it work all the time, or run > stop > run > stop ?


Thanks for all the help.
 
It's not so much time as priorities, or the order in which things are done.

All those sensors work using a variable ground. If the ground is not good, the signal will be false that the ECU and MT2500 are reading.

Check the intake bolts. 15 minute job. Tip 5 is easy also.

To check for vacuum leaks, spray carb cleaner around suspect areas at an idle. If there's a vacuum leak, you'll know. The idle speed will either go up or down very noticeably.
 
"To check for vacuum leaks, spray carb cleaner around suspect areas at an idle. If there's a vacuum leak, you'll know. The idle speed will either go up or down very noticeably."
I know that but i wanted to do it different way, to check all the hoses that are going to other systems in car. I wanted to put a pressure into intake with engine off and check for leaks, as ill hear air escaping. I've done that i a few cars.


I work for 2 shifts, so mostly i don't even have those 15 mins :(
But I still think it's too much difference/problems to be just a incorrect ground.
In the other hand, I don't hear any bad sounds from the engine to suspect cams...
 
There has been alot of things i have done, alot of advices, and maybe I should make some summary of what was done, because i'm running out of things to check and my Jeep isn't getting any better.


Done so far:
New TPS + regulating (chinese, from aliexpres)

New MAP sensor (chinese, aliexpres)

New O2 sensor (Crown) it's seems to be working good, on snapon was changing between rich and lean pretty quick.

New remanufactured distributor
New ignition wires, cap, coil etc (NGK/ EPS / Magneti marelli)

New spark plugs (champions)
New starter relay (Omnix ADA, but it came without connection to ballast resistor, so ballast resistor is unplugged)
EGR unplugged
Catalytic conv. is cut out
Silencer is cut out
Vacuum is checked, no leaks.
Fixed most of grounds

Compression rate is about 10 bar = 145psi on each cylinder
New timing chain + sprockets
Manifold mounting bolts retorqued
Coolant temperature sensor shows correct reading
Intake air sensor shows correct reading
ECU checked
PCM changed for used one
There are completly no bad noises of lifters, valves, etc from the engine
Radiator/waterpump/thermostat/viscous fan new.
Fuel pump is new.
I have dual fuel system - gasoline + lpg, it runs the same on both fuels.





Problems that i still have:
bad MPG (about 7 mpg)

lack of power (about 16sec from 0-60mph, max i could go was 70mph)
when really hot, it has misfire at idle


This week ill check resistance on few last grounds that left
I'll change CPS - i already have new one so why not.
And then i'm done. No more ideas.
 
You said the coolant temp sensor shows correct reading? Is that the one on the block under the manifold or the one on the back of the head (temp guage sensor)?

Did you check the intake air temp sensor as well?
 
Temp sensor the one, on the block.
Intake sensor as well.

I checked it by reading resistance, and on snap on scanner.

Today i made new ground wires to map sensor and intake air sensor. No changes.
 
Did you ever remove the valve cover and manually turn the engine over to measure each pushrod lift? If some cam lobes are wearing down, performance will be down because some valves won't be opening-up far enough. It doesn't take much cam-lobe wear to reduce performance. Likewise, cam lobes can wear-down without making noise.

Also, as I mentioned before, EACH camshaft lobe still needs to be "degreed" to check that each camshaft-actuated intake valve and exhaust valve is opening and closing properly RELATIVE to the degrees of crankshaft/piston position. The camshaft position must be "timed" properly to the crankshaft position. If the engine is not timed properly, power will also be down.

Best regards,

CJR
 
I will do that today, or tomorrow.
Already bought valve cover gasket.


"manually turn the engine over to measure each pushrod lift?"


Could you suggest what it should be? Or where i can find that information? This is what i found but i'm not sure if it's correct information:


Camshaft Lobe Lift
Exhaust: 6.579 mm - (0.259 in.)
Intake: 6.477 mm - (0.255 in.)


Here's different info:
http://www.angelfire.com/my/fan/Jeep4.0Camshafts.htm


And 2nd question - by manualy turning the crankshaft, for how long oil pressure will be kept in hydraulic lifters? because if the oil pressure will be lost, it will show wrong value of pushrod lift?
 
First off, the previous owner (PO) may have installed a custom ground camshaft in your multi-fuel engine. The camshaft could have different lifts for the intakes and exhaust or the same lifts. It doesn't matter. We will be checking ALL the camshaft intake-lobes and then comparing them to one another. Then we will be checking ALL the camshaft exhaust-lobes and then comparing them to one another. Also, be aware that some of the camshaft lobes can be worn, and some of the lifters can be worn/broken, and possibly the pushrods are worn or of different lengths. This will cause reduced power.

Likewise, if all the camshaft lobes are OK, the camshaft STILL needs to be "timed/degreed" to the crankshaft (i.e. crankshaft piston location relative to camshaft valve openings/closings). If it's not timed/degreed properly, then the power will be down.

So , let's get started with some basics;
1. Jeep 4.0L engines typically have non-adjustable lifters. The lifters are "pre-loaded" 0.020"- 0.060" by placing spacer washers under the valve pedestals on the head.
2. Hand rotate the engine CW until both intake & exhaust, for one cylinder, are closed, i.e. lifters setting on the camshaft lobe "base circle".
3. Loosen/remove rocker arms from pedestal. If there is a spacer washer on the pedestal remove/mike the thickness and save. That spacer washer is your "pre-load" for the lifter.
4. Give the lifter a few minutes to "bleed-down". As the lifter bleeds down, an internal spring, in the lifter, will push an internal cylinder in the lifter up to the "neutral position" where it is stopped. The spring-backed cylinder inside the hydraulic lifter will now support the pushrod.
5. Place a plunger type dial indicator, with a plunger range of about 0.5"-1", on the plunger on top of the intake valve pushrod and zero it.
6. Slowly manually rotate the crankshaft CW and write-down the maximum camshaft lobe lift for that intake valve.
7. Now switch the dial indicator to the exhaust valve pushrod. Rezero the dial indicator on the lobe base-circle, manually rotate the crankshaft again and write down the exhaust valve maximum camshaft lobe lift.
8. Repeat this for all camshaft lobes in EACH cylinder.

The trick here is to place the hydraulic lifter in the "neutral-position", so its internal spring-backed cylinder supports the pushrod as the lifter rides on the camshaft lobe. This technique is similar to determining the proper washer thickness to set the lifter preload. Essentially, the neutral-positioned hydraulic lifter is made to act as a solid lifter. If done carefully, all the camshaft lobe lifts can be checked with only the pushrod riding on the lifter. Likewise, the dial indicator plunger force is negligible. Repeat each lobe measurement to insure repeatability. Replace the "preload washers" on top of the pedestal when you re-install the rocker arms. If pushrod weight become a problem when measuring lobe lift, replace the heavy pushrod with lighter straight aluminium tubing, of the same length as the pushrod to do the lobe lift measurement. When done measuring the lobe lift, replace the aluminium tubing with the original pushrod.

When you're done measuring the lobe lifts, show us what you have.

Best regards,

CJR
 
Correct my typos.


First off, the previous owner (PO) may have installed a custom ground camshaft in your multi-fuel engine. The camshaft could have different lifts for the intakes and exhaust or the same lifts. It doesn't matter. We will be checking ALL the camshaft intake-lobes and then comparing them to one another. Then we will be checking ALL the camshaft exhaust-lobes and then comparing them to one another. Also, be aware that some of the camshaft lobes can be worn, and some of the lifters can be worn/broken, and possibly the pushrods are worn or of different lengths. This will cause reduced power.

Likewise, if all the camshaft lobes are OK, the camshaft STILL needs to be "timed/degreed" to the crankshaft (i.e. crankshaft piston location relative to camshaft valve openings/closings). If it's not timed/degreed properly, then the power will be down.

So , let's get started with some basics;
1. Jeep 4.0L engines typically have non-adjustable rocker-arms. The lifters are "pre-loaded" 0.020"- 0.060" by placing spacer washers under the valve pedestals on the head.
2. Hand rotate the engine CW until both intake & exhaust, for one cylinder, are closed, i.e. lifters setting on the camshaft lobe "base circle".
3. Loosen/remove rocker arms from pedestal. If there is a spacer washer on the pedestal remove/mike the thickness and save. That spacer washer is your "pre-load" for the lifter.
4. Give the lifter a few minutes to "bleed-down". As the lifter bleeds down, an internal spring, in the lifter, will push an internal cylinder in the lifter up to the "neutral position" where it is stopped. The spring-backed cylinder inside the hydraulic lifter will now support the pushrod.
5. Place a plunger type dial indicator( w/magnetic base) and a plunger range of about 0.5"-1", on top of the intake valve pushrod and zero it.
6. Slowly manually rotate the crankshaft CW and write-down the maximum camshaft lobe lift for that intake valve.
7. Now switch the dial indicator to the exhaust valve pushrod. Rezero the dial indicator on the lobe base-circle, manually rotate the crankshaft again and write down the exhaust valve maximum camshaft lobe lift.
8. Repeat this for all camshaft lobes in EACH cylinder.

The trick here is to place the hydraulic lifter in the "neutral-position", so its internal spring-backed cylinder supports the pushrod as the lifter rides on the camshaft lobe. This technique is similar to determining the proper washer thickness to set the lifter preload. Essentially, the neutral-positioned hydraulic lifter is made to act as a solid lifter. If done carefully, all the camshaft lobe lifts can be checked with only the pushrod riding on the lifter. Likewise, the dial indicator plunger force is negligible. Repeat each lobe measurement to insure repeatability. Replace the "preload washers" on top of the pedestal when you re-install the rocker arms. If pushrod weight become a problem when measuring lobe lift, replace the heavy pushrod with lighter straight aluminium tubing, of the same length as the pushrod to do the lobe lift measurement. When done measuring the lobe lift, replace the aluminium tubing with the original pushrod.

When you're done measuring the lobe lifts, show us what you have.

Best regards,

CJR
 
Yesterday I removed valve cover.
I measured lift on 1 of the intake valves, but not as your instructions says. I can say i had close to correct value - ~6.4xxmm
But i did it without removing the rocker arms, i just put the indicator on the spot where push rod goes into the rocker arm. But it was before i read your post.
Today I decided that i'll check it exactly as your instrucion says to be 100% sure I have done it properly. Unfortunately I need to wait with it until monday.

I recorded video of running engine without valve cover and i've noticed something strange. I didn't even know that pushrods supposed to be turning, but some of them (i have noticed two) are turning MUCH faster than the others, and one of them are 'blocking' a bit while turning. Does this indicate that there is a problem? You guys think it's because of hydraulic lifter is worn out or the push rod?

I hope video works:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/CQPDnDg8zMx8XKav6

Also the video of running engine (all seems to be working the same)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/BcN6WCNvGprgLAgv9


And the camshaft is 99% original. It's not so common here to tune this engine.
 
First that oil looks like hell, second it looks like a couple of lifters not pumping oil properly. Push rods don't typically spin like that!
 
Yeah, i was surprised by the oil too. i have made on it not more than 2k km.

Btw, i found also some cracks on exhaust manifold, im going to take off intake and exhaust manifold, weld the cracks, put new gasket, i'm also thinking about changing fuel injectors.
 
What type of oil is in that engine? It seems to me that the oil pooling in the front rocker arms appears to be foaming somewhere in the engine. If my observation is correct- that is not good. When oil foams in engines or compressors there is no oil boundary layers on parts, just air-filled oil, and wear is accelerated.

I hope I'm really wrong on my observation. But I have a bit of bad experience doing European start-ups with US equipment, where the European oil used was supposed to meet USA oil standards. In a number of cases, where I found foaming oil, I informed the powers that be, that if that oil remained in the US equipment - failure would occur in about two weeks. I returned to the US and two weeks later the equipment failed. Such is life! I wish you the very best of luck with your engine! If that was my engine, it would be out of my XJ , torn-down and every part completely examined.

Best regards,

CJR
 
Oil is General motors 10W40. Engine has 254k kilometers.

"I wish you the very best of luck with your engine! If that was my engine, it would be out of my XJ , torn-down and every part completely examined."
If i do this, it will take about a year, and cost me too much probably.
What's the newest engine I can swap this? 4.0 from ZJ? I want to keep it on renix system, just change the block+head. I think it will be fastest and cheapest way to "fix" it. And the push rods should not turn just be in one position?
 
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