Bent Rubicon Express hack and tap with video

[Tim_MN]

..... The hnt is a bad design overall because it is weak, and that is a fact. Tom woods didn't want to sell me a ds because I had one, they are notorious for breaking and bending. ......

The H&T is just as strong as a stock T-Case.

Tom Woods won't sell his drive shafts for a H&T because he has burned too many times by faulty H&T installs i.e., Operator Error.

If you don't properly tap the threads and use thread locker, the flange can work loose and damage the output shaft splines. This is your fault for not checking the torque on the the retainer bolt, and not the fault of the H&T design or parts. If you are on a budget, get an output shaft from somebody that installed a HD SYE and make sure you cut and tap correctly.

 

[twodoorXJ]

Its a bad design because it uses that stock output, which is weak. Dont get too butthurt, its just my opinion.


How could it be operater error for me when i had it working perfectly for 2 years? Never gave me vibes until a little while ago.

I guess i can agree with you that the hnt flange isnt bent, it is the tcase output.

Putting a hack and tap on is like using ctms in stock axle shafts, the stock shafts are still weak, just like the output on the tcase is still weak.

Just stating my opinion. Why use something weak, when you can spend a little more money and get something much stronger than wont bend down the road. I wish i had done that in the first place, but i didnt, and now im paying for it.

 

[twodoorXJ]

How exactly can you fault the H&T when it's obvious that your t-case has a bent output shaft?

You're doing a disservice to a lot of people by bashing the product when it is not the cause of your problem.

As far as short shaft kits are concerned, yes they are plentiful but not everyone is comfortable opening up their t-case. "Easy to install" is a subjective term at best.

Both short shaft kits and H&T kits are variations on a theme. Both work, both eliminate the slip yoke....and both will wobble if the output shaft is bent.

A real SYE has a beefier shaft which is less prone to bending. The stock output is obviously weak.

If i didnt have a hack and tap and i had a real sye, the output shaft wouldnt be bent. Therefore i blame the hack and tap.

 

[hubs97xj]

The AA replacement shaft has "18% larger spline diameter", which increases torque capacity 54%. Rotational forces, okay. Does the strength to resist bending from a side load increase dramatically as well?

And what actually happened to your driveline? I'm not arguing any of the points made, just curious.

 

[bcmaxx]

Another vote for the h&t being a sound product. I had it on 2 different 242's , and have been running it on my 231, yes the same one. The first two I cut myself, the last I had apart anyways so a machinist cut it and tapped it. so seven years the same part on 3 different cases and zero problems

 

[old_man]

A real SYE has a beefier shaft which is less prone to bending. The stock output is obviously weak.

If i didnt have a hack and tap and i had a real sye, the output shaft wouldnt be bent. Therefore i blame the hack and tap.

How is a "Real SYE" all that much stronger. The shaft size is limited to the size that fits through the output bearing, and both use the same size bearing? I developed a H&T version that many on here installed a few years ago. As far as I know, none have ever broken. If the output is butted up against the bearing and captures the bearing, it is as strong or stronger than any other design out there.

The design of any t-case is vulnerable to output shaft bending if you hit the flange on a rock. The design you are using, namely a flange style is somewhat more vulnerable because the flange hangs down further.

Correct machining and installation is critical. If you are not capable of that, then you should buy a premachined output shaft.

 

[Tim_MN]

If i didnt have a hack and tap and i had a real sye, the output shaft wouldnt be bent. Therefore i blame the hack and tap.

You logic seems to be circular.

I have an RE H&T and my T-Case skid protects the stock output shaft from damage. Both the RE and the IRO H&T perform as advertised.

 

[Frank Z]

Its a bad design because it uses that stock output, which is weak. Dont get too butthurt, its just my opinion.


How could it be operater error for me when i had it working perfectly for 2 years? Never gave me vibes until a little while ago.

I guess i can agree with you that the hnt flange isnt bent, it is the tcase output.

Putting a hack and tap on is like using ctms in stock axle shafts, the stock shafts are still weak, just like the output on the tcase is still weak.

Just stating my opinion. Why use something weak, when you can spend a little more money and get something much stronger than wont bend down the road. I wish i had done that in the first place, but i didnt, and now im paying for it.

I'm not "butthurt" at all, I simply can't understand why you continue to claim a bad design when the H&T had nothing to do with your carnage.

Obviously a lateral load in excess of the yield sterength caused the shaft to deviate from it's OEM condition. Translation:
You were driving your rig and came down hard as hell on something and bent the shit out of your junk.

A real SYE has a beefier shaft which is less prone to bending. The stock output is obviously weak.

If i didnt have a hack and tap and i had a real sye, the output shaft wouldnt be bent. Therefore i blame the hack and tap.

A H&T is a real SYE. please reread all of the posts that have already explained this to you in a variety of ways. Apply enough force and any shaft will bend or break.

Lastly,
Please consider the damage to a manufacture that you cause by the comments you make on a public forum.

 

[jrowell]

My Hack N Tap has been on my heep for over 10 years. I have not even checked it in years... guess I should, but it has performed flawlessly. Been to JV multiple times, Rubicon around a dozen times, Moab, Ducy, etc...

Another vote for an obviously sound product.

(That said, when I did mine the price difference between a H.N.T. & an SYE was greater and I am less broke now and slightly more mechanically inclined- I would probably do the SYE now. But I have no plans to change mine out)

 

[bails85]

i was going to go with the hack and tap but chose to go with AA sye because i was changing the vaccum disco on the t case to non disco. (my xj came with a 242 and i changed to a 231). i do feel that the iro or dirtbound off yoke is a better desing than the flange type RE uses. but when i changed my shafts out i will tell you that i would have been completely fine using the the stock shaft and hnt. shortening the stock shaft does increase strength. yes a sye might be a little stronger but dont bash a product because you effed up and bashed it. your logic is bogus. not every thing is rock proof. RE sells this product to eliminate a slip yoke. it does exactly that. no where does it say its function is to be used as a rock slider. if you had done a burn out or crawled over something and it shattered due to the force of the drivetrain then maybe you could call it a weak product. but bashing it on something such as a rock and it bending should be expected. this is why most run skids under their jeep. for what its worth i have 2 tail housings and stock output shafts. one is out of an xj 231 vaccum disco and one is out of a tj (more desireable). free to anyone who wants them. maybe throw a part my way if you have one you dont want or need. check the karma thread in so cal chapter for more info.