Erik
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- With Betty
Oh, and I went aluminum because I'm a skinny whimp. Richard did you ever fix your wheel? Mine are supposed to have knock-out inserts. Didn't yours"?
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bead locks
- Thread starter xjjunkie
- Start date
Cast aluminum does crack, but regular steel rims are not much better, they fail at close to the same rate. Forged aluminum are the kings, better than both but cost it, though youll never need another rim.
As far as DOT, what I read is that there has to be guidlines set. Currently there are not DOT guidlines for beadlocks, so the ones that are on the market cannot be approved or disapproved as such they are not legal for use on the roads. In order for bead locks to get DOT approvel it takes $$$ testing and govt. cooperation. This is my grasp on the whole thing from what I have read.
Just look at APC, they got busted, DOT related. Were their products causing injury? No. While the lights may not be attratvie to all, and may not illuminate as well as OEM, they are no worse than many an old dirty pickups lights. But they got busted, they were claiming to be DOT approved and they were not, they were not tested to be in compliance with specs set forth by the govt. Its just that simple.
XJguy
As far as DOT, what I read is that there has to be guidlines set. Currently there are not DOT guidlines for beadlocks, so the ones that are on the market cannot be approved or disapproved as such they are not legal for use on the roads. In order for bead locks to get DOT approvel it takes $$$ testing and govt. cooperation. This is my grasp on the whole thing from what I have read.
Just look at APC, they got busted, DOT related. Were their products causing injury? No. While the lights may not be attratvie to all, and may not illuminate as well as OEM, they are no worse than many an old dirty pickups lights. But they got busted, they were claiming to be DOT approved and they were not, they were not tested to be in compliance with specs set forth by the govt. Its just that simple.
XJguy
JJacobs
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Fort Collins CO
I've seen cast aluminum wheels break at the bead area several times, letting the air out, and once causing the tire to jump off the wheel. I've never seen that with a steel wheel.
As for beadlocks, if you need them then you know it. I live in a state that is very lenient towards 4x4's and have run them often with no problems. I've also not had any problems with bolts loosening and causing leaks, but then they are checked regularly.
XJGuy, Scott from Rockstomper.com has had an award up for a while for proof of a law against beadlocks, as mentioned earlier in the thread. Do some research and tell me what part of beadlocks could be construed as illegal, and show me a statute number. I don't really think taillights have a thing to do with the subject at hand.
As for beadlocks, if you need them then you know it. I live in a state that is very lenient towards 4x4's and have run them often with no problems. I've also not had any problems with bolts loosening and causing leaks, but then they are checked regularly.
XJGuy, Scott from Rockstomper.com has had an award up for a while for proof of a law against beadlocks, as mentioned earlier in the thread. Do some research and tell me what part of beadlocks could be construed as illegal, and show me a statute number. I don't really think taillights have a thing to do with the subject at hand.
cbremer
NAXJA Member #393
FMVSS 120, S5.2(c):
"Rim marking. Each rim... shall be marked with... the symbol DOT, constituting a certification by the manufacturer of the rim that the rim complies with all applicable motor vehicle safety standards."
That's the only thing I could find... and it's for vehicles other than passenger cars (such as trucks, buses, motorcycles, etc.)
Other than that, most of the regulations for passenger cars concern recommended rim sizes for a given tire size, which is the responsibility of the tire manufacturer.
At the federal level, I cannot find anything that specifically prohibits a beadlock wheel/rim. Some states may have laws about it, but I've never heard of someone getting a ticket for having beadlocks.
As far as California, the closest I could find is: CVC §27454. "No tire on any vehicle upon any highway shall have on its periphery any block, stud, flange, cleat, ridge, bead, or any other protuberance of metal or wood that projects beyond the tread of the traction surface of the tire."
It refers to the tire, not to anything protruding from or added to the rim.
I think we're safe
"Rim marking. Each rim... shall be marked with... the symbol DOT, constituting a certification by the manufacturer of the rim that the rim complies with all applicable motor vehicle safety standards."
That's the only thing I could find... and it's for vehicles other than passenger cars (such as trucks, buses, motorcycles, etc.)
Other than that, most of the regulations for passenger cars concern recommended rim sizes for a given tire size, which is the responsibility of the tire manufacturer.
At the federal level, I cannot find anything that specifically prohibits a beadlock wheel/rim. Some states may have laws about it, but I've never heard of someone getting a ticket for having beadlocks.
As far as California, the closest I could find is: CVC §27454. "No tire on any vehicle upon any highway shall have on its periphery any block, stud, flange, cleat, ridge, bead, or any other protuberance of metal or wood that projects beyond the tread of the traction surface of the tire."
It refers to the tire, not to anything protruding from or added to the rim.
I think we're safe
- Location
- Indiana-Missouri
I'm just throwing this one out there.....
it could be that some of the folks in the beadlock category couldn't give a rip if beadlocks are legal or not......
it could be that some of the folks in the beadlock category couldn't give a rip if beadlocks are legal or not......
- Location
- NC Sandhills
I would concur.
For my .02 on beadlocks being 'safe' otoh...if they hold pressure and don't promote DW HOW couldn't they be safe?
Lots of mods and driving peculiarities require specialized maintenance schedules to be 'safe' no matter where the vehicle is driven.
If someone has a hankerin for beadlocks...part of the drill involves continually checking torque/tire pressure. If those two values stayed constant over time, why wouldn't they be 'safe' under any conditions?
For my .02 on beadlocks being 'safe' otoh...if they hold pressure and don't promote DW
HOW couldn't they be safe? Lots of mods and driving peculiarities require specialized maintenance schedules to be 'safe' no matter where the vehicle is driven.
If someone has a hankerin for beadlocks...part of the drill involves continually checking torque/tire pressure. If those two values stayed constant over time, why wouldn't they be 'safe' under any conditions?
What Rd
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Athens, IL
While I haven't bothered to spend any time researching it (because I don't care!), I believe cbremer has the correct approach to this issue.
DOT (apparently) has no standard under which beadlock wheels can be approved.
Who cares?
Only those people in states with either statutes or regulations requiring that their wheels (or some other categorization that would include wheels) be DOT approved. Absent such a requirement, there is no "illegality" to be dealt with.
It's as simple as that.
Issues related to liability in the wake of some sort of catastrophe that a loathsome plaintiff's attorney would claim was due to your non-DOT-approved wheels are another matter. However, that's both speculative and not the focus of this thread, so . . . .
In short - IF you care, do a little research on your state's vehicle code and Department of Transporation (or equivalent) regulations. If you don't find anything requiring your wheels to be DOT approved, then you can once again sleep soundly knowing that the wheel police won't be knocking down your door.
(just a lawyer's opinion - not legal advice!)
= )
DOT (apparently) has no standard under which beadlock wheels can be approved.
Who cares?
Only those people in states with either statutes or regulations requiring that their wheels (or some other categorization that would include wheels) be DOT approved. Absent such a requirement, there is no "illegality" to be dealt with.
It's as simple as that.
Issues related to liability in the wake of some sort of catastrophe that a loathsome plaintiff's attorney would claim was due to your non-DOT-approved wheels are another matter. However, that's both speculative and not the focus of this thread, so . . . .
In short - IF you care, do a little research on your state's vehicle code and Department of Transporation (or equivalent) regulations. If you don't find anything requiring your wheels to be DOT approved, then you can once again sleep soundly knowing that the wheel police won't be knocking down your door.
(just a lawyer's opinion - not legal advice!)
= )
Willis
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Hoquiam, WA
All aftermarket wheels are already stamped DOT on them. If you are running a production wheel, converted to beadlock, you have a DOT wheel. If whomever installed your beadlocks did not 'rub out' your DOT stamp on your wheel, you still have it. If one got a ticket, fight the hell out of it. Let them prove to you that it is illegal (you are innocent until proven guilty). Most people that do get tickets for beadlocks (very few) don't fight it, they just pay the ticket.
Now with all these 'simulated beadlock' wheels, how could it really be proven on the side of the road (the cop would have to be very knowledgeable about beadlocks). All you have to do is put a doubt in his mind. Also, point out the DOT stamp. If it did go to court, they would have to prove that your beadlocks are real beadlocks, not fake ones, and prove that beadlocks are illegal. This would mean they would have to impound your vehicle, disassemble your tires from wheels, and prove they are infact real beadlocks. Unless you were faced with a criminal infraction, the traffic courts would not go through such actions.
However, if a beadlock failed, or maybe if you had a blowout, caused an accident, or god forbid a fatality, your wheels would go under scrutiny if noticed, and you could be in a lot of trouble, if infact it was proven that beadlocks are illegal.
On that note, I plan on running beadlocks on the street.
Steve
Now with all these 'simulated beadlock' wheels, how could it really be proven on the side of the road (the cop would have to be very knowledgeable about beadlocks). All you have to do is put a doubt in his mind. Also, point out the DOT stamp. If it did go to court, they would have to prove that your beadlocks are real beadlocks, not fake ones, and prove that beadlocks are illegal. This would mean they would have to impound your vehicle, disassemble your tires from wheels, and prove they are infact real beadlocks. Unless you were faced with a criminal infraction, the traffic courts would not go through such actions.
However, if a beadlock failed, or maybe if you had a blowout, caused an accident, or god forbid a fatality, your wheels would go under scrutiny if noticed, and you could be in a lot of trouble, if infact it was proven that beadlocks are illegal.
On that note, I plan on running beadlocks on the street.
Steve
Carpenter
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Nashville, TN
Getting back to the original post. Steel or aluminum, I guess it's up to you. Aluminum is lighter but not that much lighter unless you're comparing them to Hummer beadlocks. My Allieds don't weigh much more, if at all, than my old AR 767's. Some say aluminum is stronger than steel but I've seen a couple of shattered OMF beadlocks, I guess it just depends on wether the wheels are cast or forged. Most steel beadlocks can be repaired well enough to at least get you off the trial, try that with a broken aluminum wheel. As for the legality arguement, my Allieds are stamped DOT right on the rim, good enough for me.
Ok, ok. This thread needs some closure. I work 40 hours a week in a tire shop and have for 5 years. I have seen tens of thousands of wheels. I have lifted thousands of wheels by hand. I have spun thousands of wheels on a balancer and seen which ones bend and which ones don't.
1) I have NEVER seen a forged aluminum wheel bend, break, or even so much as wobble on a balancer.
2) I have seen PLENTY of cast aluminum wheels bend and not break, and a handful of them break and not bend.
3) I have seen HUNDREDS of steel wheels bend, both at the bead and in the hub area.
4) Cast aluminum wheels and steel wheels are nearly the same weight in most cases. Forged aluminum wheels, however, are MUCH MUCH lighter than either of the others. As in, about HALF THE WEIGHT of cast aluminum or steel wheels.
Given these facts, I would go with the forged wheels in a heartbeat if my only concern was to have the lightest and strongest (best) product. If money was a big issue, just get the steels and replace one once in a while.:lecture:
1) I have NEVER seen a forged aluminum wheel bend, break, or even so much as wobble on a balancer.
2) I have seen PLENTY of cast aluminum wheels bend and not break, and a handful of them break and not bend.
3) I have seen HUNDREDS of steel wheels bend, both at the bead and in the hub area.
4) Cast aluminum wheels and steel wheels are nearly the same weight in most cases. Forged aluminum wheels, however, are MUCH MUCH lighter than either of the others. As in, about HALF THE WEIGHT of cast aluminum or steel wheels.
Given these facts, I would go with the forged wheels in a heartbeat if my only concern was to have the lightest and strongest (best) product. If money was a big issue, just get the steels and replace one once in a while.:lecture:
Mich88XJ
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Houghton, Michigan
This is where I read it, so I figured it was true. I am going to have to write them, cuz that is crap if they are saying it is true and don't know for sure. That means tons of people just heard this to continue the rumor going. I thought I would get a set for looks, but also cuz they work good, but this turned me away from it. I am going down to the local cop shop and bug them for an answer wheter they are legal or not, but for the most part, I really dont give a ****! If they are so bored they want to pull me over for it, then that is pretty sad.
Comanche
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Portland Oregon
- Location
- Indiana-Missouri
TR's are supposed to be among the best.....
but dollar for dollar.......
once you get above and beyone the 15" 5 bolt rims, the price begine to climb, in fact, its one of those "call us so we can sweet talk ya after we shock you with the price" IIRC, 8 lug 16-17 rims were above the 315 dollar range, so at that price, if it were my money, I get walker evens beadlocks......
have ya seen those?
but dollar for dollar.......
once you get above and beyone the 15" 5 bolt rims, the price begine to climb, in fact, its one of those "call us so we can sweet talk ya after we shock you with the price" IIRC, 8 lug 16-17 rims were above the 315 dollar range, so at that price, if it were my money, I get walker evens beadlocks......
have ya seen those?
- Location
- Yucaipa, CA
I've got a friend who has broken the TRs. Said they're all cast aluminum. Need to find a forged wheel if you're looking to spend that kind of coin anyway.
Dan
Dan
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