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Bad MPG's and a stutter

rwdawg2

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Dawsonville, GA
My Jeep is an auto 98 Sport with 225k on the clock. It has a 4.5" lift with 33x12.50x15 and stock gearing (for now).

I am getting bad MPG's plus a stutter when pressing the gas at normal road speeds.

I replaced my cracked manifold with an APN manifold. http://www.amazon.com/Jeep-Exhaust-M...pr_product_top

No difference in MPG's or stutter. So I replaced my factory injectors with some Neon 703 injectors http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1101279

Still no difference in MPG's or stutter. I have not replaced the speed sensor since the lift and bigger tires, so I understand that I am getting a lower reading on the trip meter per tank of gas but 13 MPG's seems extremely low. Is this normal considering it's a lifted XJ running 3.55 gears with an AW4?

My other question:
Is there a way to test our (98 Cherokee sport) Fuel pressure? I get a very bogged down start-up, sometimes it just cuts right back off. It also has a hesitation (bumping back and forth) when you press the throttle down just a little past half way around 55mph or so. The hesitation does not occur if you press the throttle down further past this "hesitation point". Is this a fuel issue, or something more serious (ie: Transmission)?
 
A faulty O2 sensor is most commonly associated with a large drop in gas mpg and any bucking /stalling/backfiring. You should test the O2 sensors. O2 sensors have a normal service life of about 125-175,000 miles

You should test the or replace the Coolant Temperature Sender on the thermostat housing. A weak or faulty sender can cause some of the symptoms you describe.

Test the Throttle Position Sensor.

"Rent" a fuel pressure tester at the local auto parts store. Use it test the Check Valve also.
 
Yeah I was guessing I would have to replace those O2 sensors. I imagine they have never been replaced.

I appreciate the other suggestions though. I will test those to see where they range. Any particular numbers I should be looking for on the TPS and Check Valve?
 
Don't be dissapointed when the O2 sensors dont improve your MPG much.

It's probably your driving style and the fact that we drive around in a box, that has been lifted off the ground and had 1000+lbs in tires, armor, winches, gear, etc. added to it. The 33's on stock gears probably not helping either.

When my dad drives my jeep he gets 3-4 better MPG than I do. A lot of it is how much of a leadfoot you are.
 
Well that's the thing. I don't drive like a bat out of hell b/c I know my MPG's are terrible. Plus there is that halfway point where it starts to stutter. So I normally don't try to push the peddle to that point, b/c it only angers me that I don't know what it is :) Any who, I will just start testing and replacing stuff that typically needs to be replaced by this point. I was thinking maybe the fuel filter might be clogged. We'll see, and I post any findings that I have on this thread.
 
A simple search finds this :

TPS failure may have one or more of these Physical Symptoms:

1) The engine loses power and is stalling.

2) The engine will idle, but may die as soon as you press the gas pedal. When driving, it seems as if all power is gone.

3) Sometimes it feels as if the transmission is failed or isn't shifting properly, if at all. If you quickly jump on the gas you might be able to get the transmission to shift, but it won’t shift properly by itself. Shifting manually, the transmission goes through all the gears.

NOTE: The throttle position sensor is also DIRECTLY involved with transmission shifting characteristics. The TPS function should be verified early in the troubleshooting process, when a transmission issue is suspected.

TPS TEST

The TPS is mounted on the throttle body. The TPS is a variable resistor that provides the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) with an input signal (voltage) that represents throttle blade position. The sensor is connected to the throttle blade shaft. As the
position of the throttle blade changes, the resistance of the TPS changes. Along with inputs from other sensors, the PCM uses the TPS input to determine current engine operating conditions. In response to engine operating conditions, the PCM will adjust fuel injector pulse width and ignition timing.

The PCM supplies approximately 5 volts to the TPS. The TPS output voltage (input signal to the PCM) represents the throttle blade position. The PCM receives an input signal voltage from the TPS. It is best to use an analog meter (not digital) to see if the transition from idle to WOT is smooth with no dead spots. With your meter set for volts, put the black probe on a good ground like your negative battery terminal. With the key on, engine not running, test with the red probe of your meter (install a paper clip into the back of the plug of the TPS) to see which wire has the 5volts. This will vary in an approximate range of from .25 volts at minimum throttle opening (idle), to 4.8 volts at WOT wide open throttle.

Perform the test procedure again and wiggle and/or tap on the TPS while you watch the meter. If you notice any flat spots or abrupt changes in the meter readings, replace the TPS.

The TPS is sensitive to heat, moisture, and vibration, leading to the failure of some units. The sensor is a sealed unit and cannot be repaired only replaced. A TPS may fail gradually leading to a number of symptoms which can include one or more of the following:

-Poor idle control: The TPS is used by the ECU to determine if the throttle is closed and the car should be using the Idle Air Control Valve exclusively for idle control. A fault TPS sensor can confuse the ECU causing the idle to be erratic or "hunting".

- High Idle Speed: The TPS may report faulty values causing the engine idle speed to be increased above normal. This is normally found in conjunction witha slow engine return to idle speed symptom.


Cheap crappy "Lifetime Warranty" parts are often out of specification or even failed right out of the box. Many times they have a short service life before they fail. Always buy top quality replacement parts and genuine Jeep sensors.


The fuel pump check valve is supposed to hold pressure in the fuel line while the engine is off. The check valve is located on the fuel pump and located in the gas tank. A failed check valve allows the fuel to drain back to the tank. This results in one or more of the following symptoms:

SYMPTOMS

• Longer than normal cranking times
• Never starts on first try, almost always starts on the second try
• Rough idle for a few moments of idling
• Rough running for first ½ block of driving
• Little or no fuel pressure at the fuel rail test valve similar to this -

1- Key in on position; fuel pump primes for 2 seconds then stops. 0 PSI
2- Cranking over the engine. 2-3 PSI
3- Engine starts and idles for 20 seconds. < 5 PSI
4- Engine idles and fuel pressure creeps up to 45-50 PSI.


POSSIBLE CAUSES

• Failed check valve on the fuel pump in the gas tank.
• Leaky fuel injector(s) may be the true cause of your problem, but more likely they are simply contributing to the check valve issue.

Testing of the fuel injectors should show if any are faulty and are allowing fuel to drain into the cylinder. Either problem can allow heat soak to vaporize the remaining fuel in the fuel rail, and you may be dealing with a bit of vapor lock as well, especially in warmer weather.

1. Connect the gauge at the fuel rail and start the engine. The gage should read 49 psi plus or minus 5 psi.

2. Turn the engine off and immediately clamp the fuel line just ahead of the fuel tank. Watch the pressure gage and see how long it takes to loose pressure.

If the pressure remains at 49 psi for an extended period of time then the problem is in the tank - probably the check valve. If the pressure falls below 49 psi fairly rapidly then the problem is probably a leaky injector.

There are a few solutions to the problem –

1. Turn the key to ON for 5 seconds and let the fuel pump prime. Turn the key to OFF, turn the key back to ON for 5 seconds, start the engine.

2. Crank the engine for 3-5 seconds, pause, and crank the engine again. It will almost always start on the second try.

3. Replace the fuel pump assembly in the gas tank. The check valve is not a separate part and cannot be serviced. This is both expensive and time consuming because you have to remove any hitches and skid plates and then remove the gas tank from the vehicle.

You can use solutions 1 or 2 for as long as you want to, they do not harm anything and the fuel pump will continue to function for many more years.


If you do replace the fuel pump assembly, purchase a high quality OEM style pump assembly such as Bosch or Carter. Some cheap aftermarket fuel pump assemblies, like Airtex, don’t hold up and fail completely within 12-18 months.
 
Awesome info. I really do appreciate the help.

I haven't tested the TPS but I did a test on the fuel pressure and I've come to the conclusion that it is my check valve/fuel pump. So that looks to be next on the list to replace.

Love this forum, again thanks for the info and tips.
 
Just replaced the fuel pump (which also has the filter, turns out). The random dying is fixed, along with the fuel pressure issue. Now all I have to figure out is the stuttering under load.
 
Use an analog multimeter (or a high-performance digital like a Fluke) and test the TPS through its full operating range to see if it is performing smoothly.

The "stuttering" is an interruption in the ignition or fuel delivery. MAT is a constant--it is reading intake temp of the air, not load dependent. CTS same as MAT. The MAP and TPS are reacting to throttle position or vacuum--load indicators. Of course, you could have carbon tracks in the cap/rotor or cross-firing plug wires or even one or more bad/worn spark plugs.
 
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