AMC V-8 conversion

[Moab Systems]

I looked on here, and searched but I didnt find anything. I have a 97, 4.0, auto. 8" lift, 35s, HP 30, 8.8, 242W tom woods shafts and SYE. It has high milage and I am considering a 304/360 AMC swap in the future. I know I can get more power from another company's V-8, however, I like the AMC V-8s, I have had 3 CJ7s with 304s an they work really well off road. Does it fit? I am concerned about the oil pump clearing. I also need to know if the 4.0 and the 258 share the same bolt pattern for the bell housing because the 258 and the V8s do. I wheel, but I am not stupid with the throttle, so I am not really concerned abotu the AW4 or the HP30. Thanks.

 

[OlyWaXJ]

Bellhousings are the same.If you use the AW4 you have to have the flexplate balanced to the V8.The motor will fit you just have to build custom exhaust,none of the stockers will fit between the frame rails.

And thinking that other makes of V8's have more power is BS.You can build a AMC just like you can any other motor.As a matter of fact the 401 comes with forged rods and crank(yes all of them) and can easily be built to 500 hp for very little investment.

OlyWa

 

[rebel68]

hows it coming I'd like to see some pics

 

[traitor5150]

Yeah you can use a AW4 but dont forget it's computer controlled SO You have to go to www.awshifting.com (Or make your own) OR rig up a tps

 

[Lincoln]

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=920485
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=53767

 

[Goatman]

Doesn't an HO 4.0L have more power than a stock 304?

Wouldn't you have to do a pretty good build on a 304/360 to get more power than if you rebuilt the 4.0L into a stroker?

Isn't fuel injection preferred over a carburator, especially off road at angles?

Seems like a lot of work without any gains..........



Of course, (now that i looked at Jacobs build), if you're going to do a nice 401 then you'd be getting something.........but not with a 304.

 

[JJacobs]

1: yes, the 4.0 will run with a smog-neutered 304. On the other hand, a 360 would walk all over a stroker.

2: No, not really, buy the same kind of upgrade parts you would for the stroker and smog V-8s wake right up.

3: Yes, of course.

A good performance rebuild for a V-8 should net around 1.1 hp/ci, or 1.3 for torque. AMC of course is becoming a boutique engine and parts are a lot more $$ than for an SBC, though certain things are getting cheaper. Also if someone were to fab in a 304, the entire engine family has the same dimensions- so that 390 on Craigslist would plop right in. The oil filter clears the 'frame' if you trim back the horizontal lip.

I 'wheeled a carbed 401 in a CJ. It sucked, bad. I've seen Quadrajets wheel OK but forget about a Holley. Megasquirt is a good EFI option for cheap, but a lot of work.

I don't know- it's kind of a polarizing mod. A lot of people don't see the need, and really there is no need. But others dig the rumble from a little unibody Jeep and the ability to scatter ujoints through the rocks at will. Competitive rockcrawlers figured out a few years ago that HP is the way up the steep rocks. I realized the key to making the drivetrain last is removing the front half but that's another story.

If anybody would like info on how to wire in an AW4 send a PM- rigging the TPS is on you.

 

[RWKHausSupply]

Seems like this would be compared to the same as taking a newer GM 4.3 v6 out of a newer S-10 and putting a 1993 corvette 350 in it. Why? Yeah more cyl's but no more power really. Or a 2110cc VW motor out of your 64 bug and doing all the work to get that porsche motor in it. Why?

If your going to build it, then build the right motor. SBC. if your looking for simple more power your screwed. cause its not really simple. its involved..

just IMO...

 

[ashmanjeepxj]

Seems like this would be compared to the same as taking a newer GM 4.3 v6 out of a newer S-10 and putting a 1993 corvette 350 in it. Why? Yeah more cyl's but no more power really. Or a 2110cc VW motor out of your 64 bug and doing all the work to get that porsche motor in it. Why?

If your going to build it, then build the right motor. SBC. if your looking for simple more power your screwed. cause its not really simple. its involved..

just IMO...

I would agree the SBC is the cheap way to go. I have SBC 350, a 1 wire HEI electrical system on propane.

I would never try to wheel a Carb engine for what I do, They just dont stay running at extreme angles.

The 700R4 will bolt up to the SBC, The 700R4 in an S-10s ran a NP231 behind it.

 

[Tampa_XJ]

Speaking from experience( had an 88 with a 401 swap and 727 tranny) its a PITA and not worth it...carbs suck offroad, period. Besides that the engine BARELY fits and fitting a proper sized radiator is not fun... stock truck radiators(ie dodge ram etc) are too tall and will hang dangerously low due to the short height of the xj grill. My advise would be to either stick with the 4.0 and stroke it, or go with a narrow v small 8 like a 302. The 401 was great to brag on, but was a complete waste of time and money as far as functionality goes.. Ther are several other issues that you'd run into, but this should be deterrance enough...

 

[Moab Systems]

There are several reasons I would rather put an AMC V-8 in than either a stroker 4.0 or a SBC

1. I am not a SBC guy. I am a jeep and mopar guy
2. I do not want a stroker, period. I would rather put the machining money into the race jeep or the street rod than my XJ (for motor work, not in general)
3. I think that building a jeep that "could" actually should have been made when the 87-91 XJ and FSJs were made, that would be cool
4. Cooling = be cool, good up to 350 horses.
5. How is it coming- I am picking up a potential motor in the next week or two, I decided against the 360 I had because I was able to sell it and make good money on it.
6. I know it is not the main streamed motor of choice, and not the easiest, but if everybody had the same stuff, these forums would be boring, there would be no-one to flame, and we would all have 94 xj, auto, 3" rancho, and 31s. This is different, not obscure, but I like different, and a V-8 growl. Oh and gas is $3.00 a gallon.....so now is the right time.

Thanks for the insights, opinions, and links, I appreciate them all.

 

[rebel68]

I think that the AMC v8 looks like it belongs sitting in the engine bay of an xj. I've done my own. It wasn't that difficult, and it sounds a lot better in my opinion than a I6. I have no cooling problems and if you know what you are doing with a carb it works just fine off road. unless you are doing major inclines or flipping it. For me I just like to play in MUD lots and lots of MUD. If you are a serious rock crawler the low rpm torque from an AMC V8 is far superior to any other SB V8, match that with propane and you will be unstopable. So to qoute Larry the cable guy " getter done " and have some fun.

 

[Moab Systems]

I have been considering propane for a while but, I need to do more research into it. I like the idea of it, and that it is affordable, but I am concerned with DOT regs. I will need to look into PA laws before I do that....we have lots of tunnels and such. How do they sound on Propane...I DO NOT want it to sound like our forklift. :wave1:

There is a system on an international truck at the local yard that I could have the hat, reg, etc off of for like $30-40. Is it worth getting, it is on a 390 IH V-8. Are the parts rebuildable and adjustable?

 

[rebel68]

I have been considering propane for a while but, I need to do more research into it. I like the idea of it, and that it is affordable, but I am concerned with DOT regs. I will need to look into PA laws before I do that....we have lots of tunnels and such. How do they sound on Propane...I DO NOT want it to sound like our forklift. :wave1:

There is a system on an international truck at the local yard that I could have the hat, reg, etc off of for like $30-40. Is it worth getting, it is on a 390 IH V-8. Are the parts rebuildable and adjustable?

Theres a couple of good web sites for propane ( www.gotpropane.com is a good one ) you just have to google them. as for the one from the parts yard, buy the whole thing. the IH (international harvester ) 390 c.i.d. is ( or should be ) an AMC 390. Which is the same block config. as the rest of the AMC small blocks. If you are lucky maybe it is the same 390 block that they used in 1970 ( 1 year only) In such vehicles like the REBEL MACHINE or Javelines and AMX's. You can tell buy the heads if it has the dog leg exhuast port then you definitly want the motor. If it has square ports than it is a 390 block with a lower deck hieght from 1967-69 ( still worth saving from a shreader ). After 1970 ( 1971and newer) the 390 got stroked and became the 401. Let me know what it turns out to be it should be interesting

 

[Moab Systems]

I will have to go and check it out this weekend or next. Thanks

 

[RWKHausSupply]

I think that the AMC v8 looks like it belongs sitting in the engine bay of an xj. I've done my own. It wasn't that difficult, and it sounds a lot better in my opinion than a I6. I have no cooling problems and if you know what you are doing with a carb it works just fine off road. unless you are doing major inclines or flipping it. For me I just like to play in MUD lots and lots of MUD. If you are a serious rock crawler the low rpm torque from an AMC V8 is far superior to any other SB V8, match that with propane and you will be unstopable. So to qoute Larry the cable guy " getter done " and have some fun.

Dude your on crack :roflmao:

First you say if your not doing major inclines, then go on to say that if its for a "serious rock crawler" its superior. I dont know what kinda Serious rock crawler you think you've seen, but if its not seeing 30-45deg angles then its not serious. And if it is seeing those angles then Even with off road floats, Jet Tubes and the such, your still going to get fuel starvation.

I see it every time I see a toy or CJ thats carb. out at a local event (Truckhaven). The crevases just kill'em with the angles and thats just sand and hard dirt.

Carb Sucks! I would take a 4cyl FI over a 360 carb motor any day! Now if you ahve the $ and means to move from carb to propane or FI then its a different story.

And as for "torque from an AMC V8 is far superior to any other SB V8" again your smoking crack! If you want to compare. Show me a reliabe Mediocore build in a AMC 401 that gets 420ft/lbs on 87oct or a streetable build with over 500ft/lbs on mild race gas? You can get that with a SBC all day! Torque is mostly influenced by Rod length and stroke, both of which you can match between the SBC and a full (true) race build say 430 AMC.

So to say superior is a joke. Both can be built to obtain the same type of numbers, only the SBC will do it for about 1/3 less $. And last longer typically due to more reserch and devel. being done on them and the related go fast parts that people put on them, in the aftermarket arena.

You ever weighed a 360? Its a PIG!

Nothing against a nice 360. But I will say I am a bit bias seeing as we just pulled a mild RV built 360 from a 78CJ and currently have a complete ramjet 350 from GM performance parts on order to replace it.

 

[Moab Systems]

Dude your on crack :roflmao:

First you say if your not doing major inclines, then go on to say that if its for a "serious rock crawler" its superior. I dont know what kinda Serious rock crawler you think you've seen, but if its not seeing 30-45deg angles then its not serious. And if it is seeing those angles then Even with off road floats, Jet Tubes and the such, your still going to get fuel starvation.

I see it every time I see a toy or CJ thats carb. out at a local event (Truckhaven). The crevases just kill'em with the angles and thats just sand and hard dirt.

Carb Sucks! I would take a 4cyl FI over a 360 carb motor any day! Now if you ahve the $ and means to move from carb to propane or FI then its a different story.

And as for "torque from an AMC V8 is far superior to any other SB V8" again your smoking crack! If you want to compare. Show me a reliabe Mediocore build in a AMC 401 that gets 420ft/lbs on 87oct or a streetable build with over 500ft/lbs on mild race gas? You can get that with a SBC all day! Torque is mostly influenced by Rod length and stroke, both of which you can match between the SBC and a full (true) race build say 430 AMC.

So to say superior is a joke. Both can be built to obtain the same type of numbers, only the SBC will do it for about 1/3 less $. And last longer typically due to more reserch and devel. being done on them and the related go fast parts that people put on them, in the aftermarket arena.

You ever weighed a 360? Its a PIG!

Nothing against a nice 360. But I will say I am a bit bias seeing as we just pulled a mild RV built 360 from a 78CJ and currently have a complete ramjet 350 from GM performance parts on order to replace it.

Can I be honest, I love to see people arguing about something I didnt ask or say anything about. I didnt ask if a 360 AMC is as good as a SBC, I didnt ask if I should put a SBC in it either. A SBC is something I would not even consider putting in my jeep for several reasons.
1. The only vehicle I have that has a SBC in is my boat, so I have no parts or manuals for them. Even the SBC in my boat is called a mercruiser.
2. I am not a SBC guy, again a mopar and AMC guy.
3. I guess I really dont see the advantage of putting a SBC in a jeep, as you have to buy adapters. To put an AMC in a cj or a mopar in a CJ, you dont need adapter, especially if you use the auto.
4. To each his own, but please do not flame people that offering opinions that I asked for in a thread I started. Thank you

 

[RWKHausSupply]

4. To each his own, but please do not flame people that offering opinions that I asked for in a thread I started. Thank you

Sorry, just dont like BS to be posted, incase someone searches and reads it. Its not cool to have false info given that will potentially someday be followed by someone that doesnt know its false.

 

[Moab Systems]

no prob:cheers:

 

[OlyWaXJ]

Theres a couple of good web sites for propane ( www.gotpropane.com is a good one ) you just have to google them. as for the one from the parts yard, buy the whole thing. the IH (international harvester ) 390 c.i.d. is ( or should be ) an AMC 390. Which is the same block config. as the rest of the AMC small blocks. If you are lucky maybe it is the same 390 block that they used in 1970 ( 1 year only) In such vehicles like the REBEL MACHINE or Javelines and AMX's. You can tell buy the heads if it has the dog leg exhuast port then you definitly want the motor. If it has square ports than it is a 390 block with a lower deck hieght from 1967-69 ( still worth saving from a shreader ). After 1970 ( 1971and newer) the 390 got stroked and became the 401. Let me know what it turns out to be it should be interesting

No it's not an AMC 390,it's an IH 390.Two totally diffrent motors.IH did put the 401 in some trucks but never the 390.

Oh and on the chev/AMC debate did small block chev's come with forged cranks and rods like the 401 does? The AMC V8 has a high nickle content making it a VERY good block,and the BS is that it takes 2/3's more to build a AMC over a chev.

OlyWa