3" Lift Enough For A Mall Crawler?

[seanof30306@yahoo.]

Personally, for a pavement pounder XJ, I'd set it up with a 2" lift and some 245/70-17 white letter tires. As big as you can squeeze with minimal mods.

So, this Jeep has a 3" lift, and the wheels I'm going to run (they came in yesterday).

What size do you think those tires are?

I don't know whay it starts at 13:00 in. Go back to the beginning ... it looks AWESOME!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYGjgwO_wlQ

 

[seanof30306@yahoo.]

The 245/70 is more tire than the 275/60.
It may be numerically smaller but it isn't completely smaller.
Are you aware of tire tread width vs. Wheel width resulting in good or bad tread wear patterns?
They need to be somewhat matched since this is your daily.
And it doesn't matter what you've ran on what wheel for however many miles, it's something that you may want to consider.

If it were my daily i was setting up with your limitations / goals I'd use:
-Rubicon express RE1600 track bar.
- 2" coil spacers.
-extended sway bar links or the lowering brackets.
Probably brackets since the stock end links work well.
-BDS 3" leaf springs.
-fixed lower control arms with bushings at each end.
Your chassis still has camber adjustment.
( several name brands out there)
-appropriate length shocks....
everyones preference is different there for sure.
-1" T-Case drop.
And Definately 245/70r17's considering your wheel width.

I'm not pro SYE or Bilstien for every application.

And that can't be argued because it's my opinion and it's just how I would do it.
You would have all needed parts to acheive the look your wanting in a way that makes sense to do it.
My opinion is only worth what you have paid me for it.

Thanks for taking so much time to make those recommendations.

Much appreciated.

I already have a Rugged Ridge adjustable track bar on it:

http://www.ruggedridge.com/hd-adj-front-track-bar-18205-05.html#product_tabs_additional_tabbed

es no bueno?

 

[Caner.]

i read the whole thread and I just don't get it. why not get a 3" kit with the tires/rims you want and be done with all this crap? it's even in your thread title...

and this isn't about soft 8s vs every other rims. i'd tell you even stock 15" XJ rims are better than the rubicons you want to put on there, it has nothing to do with steelies being a trend. like someone said they're cheap and look good, that's why people prefer them.

the conclusion is simple, you have 2 options

1- to run the wheels / tires you want = get a proper lift with the proper lower control arms. i think you even said you already have an adjustable track bar.

2-if you do not want a lift kit, you have to come back to earth and realize 245s will be the biggest tires you can run without a lift, and even there, you should expect some rubbing.

on my first lift, at 3" with 31s (which equals to 265 -75 - 15) i was rubbing on my fender flares.

 

[CarbonXJ]

So, this Jeep has a 3" lift, and the wheels I'm going to run (they came in yesterday).

What size do you think those tires are? Looks to me like a 245/75-17, or 31s overall. Nice stance. With an UpCountry or small lift, I still say 245/70-17 will be you best look/fit.

I don't know whay it starts at 13:00 in. Go back to the beginning ... it looks AWESOME!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYGjgwO_wlQ

i read the whole thread and I just don't get it. why not get a 3" kit with the tires/rims you want and be done with all this crap? it's even in your thread title...

and this isn't about soft 8s vs every other rims. i'd tell you even stock 15" XJ rims are better than the rubicons you want to put on there I Strongly disagree with this, it has nothing to do with steelies being a trend. like someone said they're cheap and look good, that's why people prefer them.

the conclusion is simple, you have 2 options

1- to run the wheels / tires you want = get a proper lift with the proper lower control arms. i think you even said you already have an adjustable track bar.

2-if you do not want a lift kit, you have to come back to earth and realize 245s will be the biggest tires you can run without a lift, and even there, you should expect some rubbing. I think this is conclusion that be achieved, and will give him the proper look.

on my first lift, at 3" with 31s (which equals to 265 -75 - 15) i was rubbing on my fender flares. Different Jeeps for different folks. On my 3" lift with 31s I didn't touch the fenders.

 

[91Heep]

Thanks for taking so much time to make those recommendations.

Much appreciated.

I already have a Rugged Ridge adjustable track bar on it:

http://www.ruggedridge.com/hd-adj-front-track-bar-18205-05.html#product_tabs_additional_tabbed

es no bueno?

You're welcome.
Oh yes I had forgotten that you had an adjustable track, which I did read earlier in the thread.
That one is just fine.

Maybe you could splurge for some adjustable lower control arms since you have the track bar out of the way.
I suggest control arms without flex joints for a highway driven vehicle.

I didn't ask your goal budget since I don't consider it any of my business, but BDS leafs and OME leafs are similar in cost.
Either of those would serve you well, IMO.

With the advice you've aquired, what do you think you're going to do for lift and tires?

 

[seanof30306@yahoo.]

You're welcome.
Oh yes I had forgotten that you had an adjustable track, which I did read earlier in the thread.
That one is just fine.

Maybe you could splurge for some adjustable lower control arms since you have the track bar out of the way.
I suggest control arms without flex joints for a highway driven vehicle.

I didn't ask your goal budget since I don't consider it any of my business, but BDS leafs and OME leafs are similar in cost.
Either of those would serve you well, IMO.

With the advice you've aquired, what do you think you're going to do for lift and tires?

I've definitely decided I want to do a 3" lift; at least. I think I'm going to let the wheels and tires decide.

The wheels came in yesterday:





The pic is kinda distorted, but they're right at 8" wide



The angle on the pic makes it look like the backspace is 5", but it's actually 4 7/8"



I'm going to pull one of the 16 Rubicon wheels off my Jeep next week and measure the backspace on it. I thought I'd read the backspace was 4 1/2" on those wheels.

Still, the youtube video shows the wheels fit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYGjgwO_wlQ

That's with a 3" lift. The guy who made the video builds XJs, and uses those wheels a lot. In fact, the reason you can't find those wheels anymore is because he bought all of the distributor's remaining stock, and he bought the molds. I got super lucky when I came across mine. The guy didn't know what he had. The auction came up on ebay; he wanted 599.00 for them. I wasn't going to mess around; I callled him up right away to buy them.

He only had the one set. In the conversation, I decided to take a shot and asked him what the best price was if I bought them on the spot. He said "495.00, including shipping!" I couldn't give him my credit card fast enough!

As far as the tires, I guess it's a process. I had my heart set on those LT305/65R17 KO2s, but I have accepted the wisdom of the people who have been helping me here and have sadly waved bye-bye to them.

Same story with my next choice, The Cooper Discoverer A/T3s in LT285/65 17.

I thought I'd hit paydirt when I found the Yokohoma Geolander A/T-S in 275/60 17. It's only 30.1" tall, but CarbonXJ said he has experience with tires in that size, and they're quite a bit wider than the advertised 11.1".

So, my dreams have been crushed. Right now I'm looking at KO2s in LT265/65 17. They're 30.5" tall, and 10.7" wide.

I know everyone keeps saying I can't run more than a 245 on Rubicon rims, but my second set of tires was Dueller ATs in 255/70 15". They were 29.06" tall and 10.04" wide, and in 65,000 miles, they never once rubbed. I can't help but think with a 3" lift and offset controls, I oughta be able to squeeze that little old 265 under there!

 

[seanof30306@yahoo.]

275/60-17 are the stock tire size on my 2000 Expedition - they are WIDE. You will not be able to fit them without scrubbing the bejeebus out of your suspension on a Rubicon rim offset.

Going up in rim size and dropping the aspect ratio works well, but the tread width doesn’t stay the same, even though it should. Sure it looks like it does on paper, but not in the real world.

I’ll measure for you when I get home just how wide the actual 275/60 tire carcass is versus the tread width. And yes, it could be corrected with offset control arms, but it is a very wide tire. My 235/60-15 on my truck SHOULD be 9.3” wide – the tread is actually 9.6” wide and the carcass is 10.5” wide. This varies by tire manufacturer though.

Did you ever get a chance to measure those tires? Any chance of a pic, or two?

Here's my Jeep with 275/75 16s. Do your 275/60 17s seem significantly wider?

 

[GordoSmasho]

Fyi the jeep in that video you keep referencing is not using stock control arms so your clearance will vary. If you have an issue with rubbing on the lowers check out rustys. They make a lower that is bent to give more clearance.

I know that when i ran 31x10 bfg ats on my scock eco rims i rubbed my lower control arms a bit. But also my swaybar and front skid. I now run 35x12.5 bfg ats on my stock eccos. And even with 2" spacers i still rub my lowers a bit. Just my experience running deep backspacing wheels.

 

[GordoSmasho]

http://www.rustysoffroad.com/jeep-s...ontrol-arms-custom-for-stock-wheels-pair.html

 

[seanof30306@yahoo.]

Fyi the jeep in that video you keep referencing is not using stock control arms so your clearance will vary. If you have an issue with rubbing on the lowers check out rustys. They make a lower that is bent to give more clearance.

http://www.rustysoffroad.com/jeep-su...eels-pair.html

OK, that is great information. Thanks a bunch! I really appreciate your help.

The only thing I wonder about is the bushings. It says they come with stock bushings. When I do the lift, I'm going to upgrade all the suspension bushings, too. Probably going to use a Daystar kit: http://www.rustysoffroad.com/jeep-s...urethane-set-25mm-sway-bar-84-01-jeep-xj.html

I need to make sure the Daystar bushings will fit. Maybe if I buy the control arms and the bushing kit at the same time, they'll just install the Daystar bushings and save me the trouble of swapping them out. We'll see.

I know that when i ran 31x10 bfg ats on my scock eco rims i rubbed my lower control arms a bit. But also my swaybar and front skid. I now run 35x12.5 bfg ats on my stock eccos. And even with 2" spacers i still rub my lowers a bit. Just my experience running deep backspacing wheels.

Hmmmm ..... I ran the 255/70 15 Duellers (29.06 x 10.4) on the stock 5 spoke Cherokee Classic rims. The never rubbed, even at full lock. Maybe because they were shorter?

Also, in the email of your post, you said: "when you measure rim width its inside of the lip to inside of the lip. That sure looks like a 7" wheel"

I guess it's because I was holding it so close, but the camera has a kind of a fisheye effect. What isn't apparent in the pic is, I was holding the straightedge on the inside of the lip on the left side. Looking down to the inside of the lip on the other side, it measures 7 7/8".

 

[seanof30306@yahoo.]

Also, when I do the lift, i think I want a little rake.

Kinda like this:

 

[91Heep]

I hope you decide against that stance.
That is alot of backspace, I didn't realize they had that much.
Definately calls for curved lowers.
I'm not trying to sway you towards the 245, it's actually the 70.
Like tires sizing 245/70 or 265/70 have a better width for the wheel.
That's just my opinion though.
I'm ready to see some progress pics already...

 

[seanof30306@yahoo.]

I hope you decide against that stance.
That is alot of backspace, I didn't realize they had that much.
Definately calls for curved lowers.
I'm not trying to sway you towards the 245, it's actually the 70.
Like tires sizing 245/70 or 265/70 have a better width for the wheel.
That's just my opinion though.
I'm ready to see some progress pics already...

I was just kidding about the stance. That's a photo of a rig in the process of being lifted I saw in a thread on here ... back is done, front not started on yet.

I do want a little rake, but no more than 1/2", or so.

Right now here is the plan:

This week, I'm going to pull a wheel off my Jeep and measure the backspace. I want to see what the difference between the factory Rubicon Moab wheel and the TUFF T20R is.

Next I'm going to take the new wheels to my tire guy and have them checked to make sure they're good. With their being the last available, I want to make sure I got good ones.

Next, my tire guy is going to mount some 265/65 17 Destination ATs on the new rims and let me put 'em on to see how they fit. I won't be able to drive on them, but I'm thinking I could feel around behind them for clearance in the rear, and jack the Jeep up 3" and see if they touch in the front. If they do, I can then see if it can be fixed with a little trimming/whacking with the good old BFH.

If they don't fit, I'll have to decide whether to go with more lift, or a smaller tire (arggghhhh)

Here's where I need some advice. I'm thinking the jacking point would be the crossmember in the front. Would that be the best one?

In the rear, I'm thinking I'd just jack it up by the trailer hitch. Bueno?

I'm not in a gigantic hurry ... I want to get another 4-5,000 miles out of the tires that are on it, and I want to do a lot of research to make sure I don't screw this up..

 

[91Heep]

The way I choose to do it if it's not going on my auto lift....
Lift it by the center of the front axle and put jack stands right behind the lower control arm mounts on the frame.
I have some 3/4" thick, 4x6" plate that I put on top of my jack stands so they won't damage my frame.

For the back, it's quite common for folks to lift them by the receiver hitch.

I really think you should only have clearance issues on the lower control arm when turning.
Or since it will have factory LCA's when you test fit, you may have some clearance issues on the lower fender/flare closest to the door in the front.

 

[87manche]

The never rubbed, even at full lock. Maybe because they were shorter?

seriously?

did I not tell you that 30.5x10ish is the tallest/widest you can go without rubbing on the skid and control arms? That another 1/2" wider OR taller was going to rub.

Go out to your junk, jack it up, now turn the wheel from lock to lock and measure to the control arms.
It's simple geometry to understand that height and width play into the clearances of the tire in as it travels in an arc around the ball joint.

coincidentally getting out a tape measure would have saved everyone this shitshow.

 

[Cottontail]

If you are going to drive another 4-5000 miles on the current set of tires, why don't you take the time to lift it first, then when that is done, go get the tires? It's not going to hurt anything to drive on a lift with smaller tires than you'd like. You can do all the measuring and looking that you want now, but reality of the situation is that what you "THINK" it will look like by jacking up the truck and trying on new shoes will likely not be what it looks like when the lift is on...due to settling and the "Jeep lean."

Also, chances are that when you get the lift on your going to find a half dozen other little piddley things that will need to be addressed anyway, and you can work on them before the tires go on.

If you are bound and determined to fiddle with tires BEFORE you do your lift, I wouldn't jack it up anywhere. If your Firestone guy is as good as you say, I'd ask him to put on the tires, then use the lift arms under the frame rail and have them lift the body 3". That will be the most accurate and all 4 corners will lift at the same time at the same height.

Your order of planning befuddles me....it doesn't seem like a reasonable pathway from point A to point B.

 

[iluv83vettes]

I bet it gets DW when the lift is out on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CarbonXJ]

Did you ever get a chance to measure those tires? Any chance of a pic, or two?
I got sidetracked with some family stuffs, I should pull a tire off the Exp today or tomorrow to get a picture for you.

Also, when I do the lift, i think I want a little rake. Next Post. Couldn't get the pic to work.

 

[CarbonXJ]

Here's a rake for you. 3" front and 4" rear lift with 31s on 3.75" backspacing wheels. Just barely caught the rear of the front flare turning, with no rub on stock arms.

Sent using Tapatalk

 

[seanof30306@yahoo.]

The way I choose to do it if it's not going on my auto lift....
Lift it by the center of the front axle and put jack stands right behind the lower control arm mounts on the frame.
I have some 3/4" thick, 4x6" plate that I put on top of my jack stands so they won't damage my frame.

For the back, it's quite common for folks to lift them by the receiver hitch.

I really think you should only have clearance issues on the lower control arm when turning.
Or since it will have factory LCA's when you test fit, you may have some clearance issues on the lower fender/flare closest to the door in the front.

Thanks a lot for the help.