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Anyone know how to read a 3 link calculator?

AIbandit

NAXJA Forum User
NAXJA Member
Location
Chico, CA
The 3 link setup I had made needs to be changed. The lower links are so far my turning radius is worse than an f250. I'd like to move the lower axle side in a couple inches and the frame side aswell.
Thanks for any help.

This is my current.
What's good, what's bad and would moving it in make it better or worse?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GAS4Rqvh9wIPv4GYxXFDUobyMPMkhepUAez6z7kuQ2k/edit?usp=sharing

Google drive doesn't plot it so here's the plot.
nsbaD9A.jpg


I'm not sure if the geometry is off. The upper link mount snapped of the frame and I didn't do anything too extreme.

s9O7Rh4.jpg
 
your picture is huge, I can't see crap. I'd also check your link position numbers. The axle side doesn't look right, like either the lower links are inline with the pinion and the upper is mounted inside the diff.
 
upper link y's should be +12 and +9, same thing just flipped to the other side.
It didn't change anything on the geometry summary.

The lowers are barely angled inward.

I found this so I guess I'm a bit off.

- Start "playing" with the calculator. You want to aim for about 105% anti-squat and -2 degrees roll steer (roll understeer
 
Last edited:
Got what I needed to know on pirate.
Thanks Goatman.
Goatman said:
. Screw the 3 link calulator, it's basically useless, and even if it was a little useful very few would understand it enough to make a difference.
Make the arms as flat as possible, especially the upper arm, period. If the lowers are mounted even with the axle tube, and the upper arm is close to flat at ride height,
it will work and handle fine. No big secrets, nothing hard to figure out.
 
Ok this will be my last post, just wanted to add pertinent info. As far as I'm concerned this covers everything I need to move on. These are separate posts so continuity may be off.

From Goatman on Pirate
GoatMan said:
The only thing that matters, to me, is the angle/slope of the arms. Then the relationship in length of the lowers to the upper, which determines the amount of pinion rotation. Get the arms close to the same length, and get them as flat as is reasonable in your application, with 8"+ seperation at the axle, and build it. Don't need a calculator, hardly anybody knows what the numbers will actually handle like in a front anyway.
On the front you're concerned with anti-dive instead of anti-squat, under breaking rather than under power.

It doesn't really matter if the upper arm is a little longer than the lower arms. I don't see it being 8" longer just because of the mounting place on the axle. The frame side mount should be further forward than the lower mounts, pretty easy to do if the upper mount is inside the frame. Put the arms where they fit the best, if they're as level as possible it will be fine. If you want to see how much pinion rotation you'll have with different arm lengths and placement, just draw it on the garage floor with chalk and use a couple pieces of string or something to draw arcs of movement with chalk, then mark vertical axle travel in inches and draw a line to the arc and you'll be able to see exactly what pinion rotation you'll have throughout you travel with a particular setup. After you do that, you'll find that it doesn't matter much, but you'll feel better, and feel smarter.

More great info from barnes 4wd
http://www.barnes4wd.com/Installation-Tips-for-Adding-a-Three-Link-Suspension_b_8.html

Install Tips

Panhard or Trackbar: The panhard on a 3 link is the part that is used to hold the axle side-to-side within the vehicle. If your vehicle has a steering box, the panhard should follow the drag link as close as possible. It should also be the same length and angle as the drag link, and the mounting points should be the same height. These adjustments will minimize bump steer.

When the vehicle doesn’t have a steering box (like on a rig with full hydro), the general rule is to make the panhard bar as long and flat as possible to reduce side-to-side shifting of the axle. It is also ideal to mount the panhard as high as possible (within packaging constraints). The center of the panhard is the roll center (where the body rolls side-to-side) on a 3 link suspension. By making the panhard center higher, you can reduce body roll and increase stability. Panhard bars see a good bit of force, so it is best to use ¼” tubing and either ¾” or ⅞” heims. It is also a good idea to plate the frame rails where the frame side mount attaches.

Lower Links: The lower links in a 3 link suspension are typically easy to setup and some general rules of thumb can make the process even smoother. Triangulating lower links is fairly common because it takes some load off of the panhard and lowers the roll axis, therefore reducing flex steer. Furthermore, flatter and longer lower links (at ride height, when viewed horizontally), with an ideal length of two times the wheel travel, will generally behave better. For example, a 36”-42” link is fairly common in rigs with a wheelbase long enough to accommodate the size. Note: Longer links will always be easier to bend, no matter what type of material is used.

Upper Links: The upper link in a 3 link suspension can be difficult. Regarding length, there are some old and new rules of thumb. In the past, it was recommended to make the length 75% of the lower link length. Yes, this will keep your suspension geometry consistent during travel, but it can also cause the pinion angle to aim downward as the suspension droops. Instead, making the upper link the same length as the lowers (or even slightly longer) will allow the pinion to roll up along with the droop. Overall, equal length keeps the driveshaft alive and is especially useful for rigs with short wheelbases and/or driveshafts, or for low-pinion front applications.

Separation: Link separation affects many of the handling characteristics of a vehicle, making it a crucial aspect of proper 3 link suspension fabrication. For vertical separation at the axle end of your rig, try for at least 25% of your tire size. For example, a 40” tire should have at least 10” of separation. Note: This isn’t always possible and installing links will require compromises. On the frame end, vertical separation controls anti squat, or anti dive (in the front). Anti squat often comes down to driver’s preference. If the frame-side separation is the same as the axle, the vehicle will have 0% anti squat; in other words, the vehicle will have no resistance against the body squatting in the rear (while accelerating), or in the front (while braking). In many cases, drivers do not like this. Anti squat can be added by making separation at the frame less than at the axle. Horizontal separation at the axle is usually set by pushing the lower links out as far as you can, while keeping enough clearance for your tires and steering. Additionally, wider lowers at the axle will help with stability. On the frame side, the lowers need to be inwards far enough to allow for tire clearance at full lock. Some drivers like more triangulation, but that is also a matter of preference.
 
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