denverd1
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Dallas, TX
so mid arms are best of both worlds?
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Short arms
- Thread starter drkstrurethane
- Start date
Control arm geometry is designed to be set up with arms close to level.
Ride height with arms level is tuff because we cant fit much rubber in fender.
Any arms as close to level
Longer arms are definitely better more travel and ride better when arms aren't anywhere near level.
Ride height with arms level is tuff because we cant fit much rubber in fender.
Any arms as close to level
Longer arms are definitely better more travel and ride better when arms aren't anywhere near level.
- Location
- Southern Maryland
Shallow angle gives a better ride but also gives more downtravel.
The LCA mounts on the axle are under the coil bucket / shock mount, and the axle can only droop so far before the arms hit the brackets and stop. The more you lift the jeep, the steeper the angle of the arms at rest, and the sooner the travel stops -- in other words, the more you lift, the LESS DOWNTRAVEL YOU GET. Non-curved short arms suffer the most. Curved short arms help. Long arms and drop brackets change the resting angle, giving more downtravel.
The LCA mounts on the axle are under the coil bucket / shock mount, and the axle can only droop so far before the arms hit the brackets and stop. The more you lift the jeep, the steeper the angle of the arms at rest, and the sooner the travel stops -- in other words, the more you lift, the LESS DOWNTRAVEL YOU GET. Non-curved short arms suffer the most. Curved short arms help. Long arms and drop brackets change the resting angle, giving more downtravel.
RCP Phx
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Phoenix,Az
That's a issue that's easily overcome. If you look close at my LCA mount you'll see it was ground out for my earlier short arms.
TRCM
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Newport News,VA
The lower arm mount must at least be below the centerline of the axle, or you will completely change the geometry of the suspension and how it works, putting a LOT more stress in places not designed for it, like upper control arms & their mounts.
Right now, the axle is between the upper & lower arms mounts on the axle (in a vertical plane). So any rotational force on the axle is handled by the lower mount, and to a smaller degree the uppers because it is between them.
If you move the lower mounts up to the axle centerline, the axle will no longer be between them, so any rotational force will pivot on the lower mount and the uppers will have to handle all of the force.
You have 24" long 2x4 in your hands.................what works better as a support ??
1) put a brick under each end of the 2x4, and then set a 5 lb load somewhere in the middle ?
or
2) put a brick under one end and the middle of the 2x4, and then put the 5 lb load at the end with no brick under it ?
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RCP Phx
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Phoenix,Az
While all that is basically correct, I think your "over-stating" the effects. Look at the arms on one of the best 4x4's ever made.
https://rimmerbros.com/Item--i-LL1490BPCEL40HD?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI_q-33JKe5AIVxiCtBh17ew1_EAkYCiABEgIORfD_BwE
- Location
- In the islands
That comment is subjective.
Now back to topic.
Those arms are designed to work very different to those on the XJ. The load is shared equally on the front and rear of the axle (notice the location of the bolt holes). Also, the arms locate the axle and at the same time control/limit the rotation of the axle when under load,...acceleration or braking at both the front and rear of the axle equally.
On the XJ, the lower arms locate the axle while the uppers limit the rotation. Yes, many XJ's out there drives good with only upper control arm with which to limit axle rotation. How many are driven with only one lower control arm? The XJ control arms could be viewed as being single functional while that of the Rover is dual function thus designed different.
The exact location of the arms on the axle, i.e. higher or lower is a different animal but I do agree they should be placed in such a way that they do not to put undue load some place that is not designed to carry that load.
I dont believe that arm has to be below centerline.
I did some closer looking at raising arm s at the axle..
This would take some doing but may be worthwhile. Because can raise coil points raise track bar keeping its length. Offcourse matching raised steering offsetting everything to rear to move axle forward with nearly flat arms.
Though it's a fair amount of effing around it will fix some issues with the lifted xj.
I have a non cad s30 to build on.
I did some closer looking at raising arm s at the axle..
This would take some doing but may be worthwhile. Because can raise coil points raise track bar keeping its length. Offcourse matching raised steering offsetting everything to rear to move axle forward with nearly flat arms.
Though it's a fair amount of effing around it will fix some issues with the lifted xj.
I have a non cad s30 to build on.
- Location
- Minneapolis, MN
I am somewhat confused, what issues does my Cherokee have with 5.5 inches of lift and control arm drop brackets, that needs fixing ? The control arms are nearly flat, the axle is at least an inch or more forward from stock, the adjustable track bar is mounted in a double shear configuration, and the suspension has a wide range of motion. All this with no welding and zero effing around.
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drkstrurethane
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- arvada, colorado
Is someone saying your setup needs fixing?
denverd1
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Dallas, TX
I am somewhat confused, what issues does my Cherokee have with 5.5 inches of lift and control arm drop brackets, that needs fixing ? The control arms are nearly flat, the axle is at least an inch or more forward from stock, the adjustable track bar is mounted in a double shear configuration, and the suspension has a wide range of motion. All this with no welding and zero effing around.
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nothing wrong with a rig on short arms. how mine is setup and its out wheeled some serious rig with a lot more $$$ thrown at 'em. it is interesting that your pic shows no suspension components... we could begin to see the limitations of short arms.
you've offset one major limitation of SA's by moving the axle forward, a mod most folks, I would wager, have not done. there is a tire size limitation to short arms because the axle will always rotate down and toward the rear bumper as it droops; it will contact the rear of the fender well with tires bigger than 33". more lift would help with the problem, but honestly just exposes other problems. brake lines, drive shaft length, caster angle, steering issues, shock length.
Mine is a trail rig only, so I don't really care about on road manners, but, as you know, that's a significant difference in the two.
Theres so many must by people who must.
Build beefy put the link calculators away and wheel it.
I'm raising links if I break it I'll put more weld on it.
I love running trails along side long armed rigs
Short arms make more room for tools steering gears tires
Build beefy put the link calculators away and wheel it.
I'm raising links if I break it I'll put more weld on it.
I love running trails along side long armed rigs
Short arms make more room for tools steering gears tires
denverd1
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Dallas, TX
huh???
He is saying you guys are over thinking this. He just wants to build it and if it breaks build it better.
Nothing wrong with mounting lower links even with axle center line as long as the separation stays close to the same. I've built some cool rigs like this and they work good.
https://www.facebook.com/299453208392/posts/10156972205643393/?substory_index=0
Built this from scratch.
Nothing wrong with mounting lower links even with axle center line as long as the separation stays close to the same. I've built some cool rigs like this and they work good.
https://www.facebook.com/299453208392/posts/10156972205643393/?substory_index=0
Built this from scratch.
denverd1
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Dallas, TX
if you're raising the axle side, just build a radius arm
old_man
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Loveland, Colorado
I have been running a radius arm setup for over 20 years. Everybody said it wouldn't work but a million Ford F-150s and Broncos would argue with you. I even "wristed" the passenger side for easier flex. If you do that, you REALLY need limiting straps.
denverd1
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Dallas, TX
eace: :guitar:I'm at about 4-4.5" of lift on cheap Rough Country short arms. Stock track bar ran out of articulation before anything else. Replaced with a double-shear bushing/heim job from IRO, still top the shock out before the arms hit anything. Shocks are relocated up a little since I had about 1.5" of shock remaining before the tires (33" General X3s) started rubbing the fender.
Not sure if this picture works:
