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Slow Crank and Starter Question

9

98NWCherokee

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Portland, OR
I've got a slow crank condition that's been developing over the last few weeks. I know it's not the infamous fuel pump check valve because it always starts on the 1st try and it's the speed of the crank that is causing an issue. Today it finally gave me a scare and almost wouldn't start. The battery tests good so I did a volt drop on the starter and it's showing as bad. I've got 159k on it and since it's a 2wd model I believe it's been a short trip, in-town princess since I bought it at 133k. Is this a normal service life for a starter? Also, I recently recplaced the OFA seals which stopped a leak, but the starter is oily. Any chance I can clean the connections and be ok, or should I just stop being cheap and replace the unit?

Jeep has received all new brakes, new wheel cylinders, new distributor, new idler pulley, new belt and 4 new shocks in the last month so I'm running out of money. Is 160k a normal point for things to start falling apart all at once? I need this XJ to last at least another year.

Thank you
 
Disconnect and remove the starter.
Find small hole to insert compressed air nozzle and blow out the insides of the starter. Probably packed with debris.
You can test the starter out of the Jeep with a set of jumper cables to see if the blow job (haha) has helped any.
 
How was the battery tested precisely?
How do you now the drop is caused by the starter and not the battery? Either one could be bogging down.

Have you checked and cleaned both ends of the ground cable? and both ends of the hot cable from the battery to the starter? Cleaned both posts and clamps on the battery?

Have you tested the running voltage, it should be between 13.5 and 14.5 Volts running at the battery posts, and 12.75 V with the engine off.

If all that stuff checks out OK, you might try replacing just the solenoid on top. I have saved 2 or 3 jeep starters the last 6 years with new solenoids only.
 
The battery was tested with a volt meter.. It showed 13.8 Volts running and about 12.85 Volts off. I cleaned and treated the battery posts about a month ago and there's no sign or corrosion. I have not cleaned the grounds or the connections at the starter. I figured if it was the starter I would refresh the connections when I swapped out the unit. I think I'll buy one tomorrow and have it on hand. I'll take the old one out and clean all the connections. Is it really worth trying to save at 159K when it's been covered in oil? A replacement premium starter with 3 year warranty is $67 (all new parts).
 
If it is the starter then yes, replace it. But a battery can show good voltage with no load, then drop like a rock under load due to a bad cell.

If the voltage while cranking drops below 10.0 volts we usually find it to be a bad battery.

If it cranks slow and holds 10.0 volts or better at the battery, it is either a bad wire connection or the starter assy.

The starter has two main parts, that are individually replaceable. I have yet to replace the entire starter on mine, but have replaced the solenoid on several of my jeeps. Most people, if they can afford it just replace the entire starter. Then some find out next it was not the starter :(

I am basically lazy, (and getting old, LOL) so I prefer to do simple, less painful tests before I get too filthy dirty and start crawling under the jeep and yanking hardware off before I am sure what is bad.

IIRC one test is to short the two large posts on the solenoid (jump it with a thick screwdriver), and see if it cranks, or in your case cranks fast, to tell if the starter is bad or just the solenoid, assuming the battery is in fact good. Jumping it bypasses the internal contacts on the solenoid if they are burned out.
 
Last edited:
Please correct me in my testing if I'm wrong....I'm still learning.

Can't I remove the fuel pump relay and then put my meter leads on the battery and crank the engine? Won't that show me the volt drop of the battery itself? So, you're saying it should not go below 10V when cranking at the battery alone?

Next, would I volt drop the negative side of the circuit by putting my negative lead on the negative side of the battery and the positive lead on the starter case for ground? Then crank the engine and I should see no more than .2V? Is this correct?

Do I then need to volt drop the positive side of the circuit by putting my positive lead on the Battery terminal (big one) of the starter and the negative lead on the positive side of the battery? I should see no more than .5V here correct?

If these 3 tests check out, would that point to the starter? If the volt drop is too high, would I then need to isolate the ciruits further to find the fault? What points would I do that? I don't have access to an amp clamp to test how much current the starter is pulling during cranking.

Thank you in advance. I'm a new automotive student and the whole volt drop thing throws me a bit. I don't want to throw parts at it, but I need to address this problem tomorrow.
 
Last edited:
CharlesS said:
Disconnect and remove the starter.
Find small hole to insert compressed air nozzle and blow out the insides of the starter. Probably packed with debris.
You can test the starter out of the Jeep with a set of jumper cables to see if the blow job (haha) has helped any.
Click to expand...

Something like this worked for me. But I disassembled the starter and cleaned it out. Worked perfectly. FWIW, these are the simplest starters to disassemble and reassemble that I've ever seen.
 
This all sounds right on my first read. The clamp contacts and posts, and battery guts are a common failure point, followed by starter solenoid itself, then brushes and or wire in the starter for your symptoms.

98NWCherokee said:
Please correct me in my testing if I'm wrong....I'm still learning.

Can't I remove the fuel pump relay and then put my meter leads on the battery and crank the engine? Won't that show me the volt drop of the battery itself? So, you're saying it should not go below 10V when cranking at the battery alone?

Next, would I volt drop the negative side of the circuit by putting my negative lead on the negative side of the battery and the positive lead on the starter case for ground? Then crank the engine and I should see no more than .2V? Is this correct?

Do I then need to volt drop the positive side of the circuit by putting my positive lead on the Battery terminal (big one) of the starter and the negative lead on the positive side of the battery? I should see no more than .5V here correct?

If these 3 tests check out, would that point to the starter? If the volt drop is too high, would I then need to isolate the ciruits further to find the fault? What points would I do that? I don't have access to an amp clamp to test how much current the starter is pulling during cranking.

Thank you in advance. I'm a new automotive student and the whole volt drop thing throws me a bit. I don't want to throw parts at it, but I need to address this problem tomorrow.
Click to expand...
 
Thank you everyone for the replies. I went ahead and did my testing today. It pulled .18V on the negative side, .4V on the positive side and it stayed above 10.5V while cranking. Since the connections and wiring seemed ok, I went ahead and replaced the starter. It was very easy and took no more than 45 minutes. I took my time and took a wire brush to the wiring ends to make a clean connection.

Result: She cranks faster than ever and completely solved my problem. I thought about rebuilding my old starter, but couldn't find anyone who sold the solenoid or brushes. Also, it had a lot of play in it when I shook it from side to side. A replacement with 3 year warranty was $54 with my student discount.

Thanks again for all the help! I look forward to a cold winter with lots of fast cranking starts!
 
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